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Discussion Starter #41
My experience is that the rear sight on my pistols has to be set off to the left. There is also a bit more wear on the left side finish. I think the extractor riding up on the chamber forces the slide to the right accounting for more left side wear. I've read many times that Ruger has somewhat the same policy regarding non stock pistols. They will remove your aftermarket trigger group and replace it with stock parts.

I guess they don't want to sort through problems a pistol might have on top of any an owner might have introduced..I think that is fair enough..On the other hand they should be very familiar with the trigger bar ear problem and the hammer tip and understand that neither has any effect on the extractor issue you are having. Walther redesigned the hammer due to it once already. And they are still working on the trigger bar ears. On my QD they have stamped the top of the ears rounding them better than any of their past efforts. Are they still indenting the underside of the zinc slide, yes and I've re-profiled the ears on my latest to eliminate it. I also removed the tip from the face of the hammer. I do have a stock hammer face on my 5" model and it works fine...the slide does not move smoothly over it but the 5" has enough rebound to not be bothered by it.

I doubt the techs in Ft Smith know the history of this pistol...all the little things like self rotating safety levers, frame screws that vibrated loose and now come with thread-locker on them, barrel nuts that would not stay tight and got an O ring put on it at the factory, non chamfered chamber entrance, etc., etc.

The O ring over the recoil spring originally came about to act as a buffer and help stop the older style slides from cracking. I think it helps. I still install one even on the thicker Q model slide. It does not interfere with anything. I can feel the softer impact of the slide when firing with one installed.

My wife bought a new Mercedes.....as far as I'm concerned it is ten years behind in the little things. And the electronics, heat, fan speed, radio, etc. go back to the VCR complexity era. Cup holders that are too small and where the handles face each other limiting the two to only one cup in actual function. And USB ports, they couldn't be more difficult to reach. I'm thinking Germans are very slow to make changes....guns or autos. My F 150 does everything better. It even rides better in my opinion. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
I could not get it to manually extract a round either though. After some testing and tearing apart, it was apparent that it was a barrel block issue. The slot was not cut deep enough to ever allow the extractor to catch the edge of a round. I only really found this after ordering the volquartsen extractor, and it didn't help. The shell had to come partly out of the chamber before it could be grabbed.

I sent this info to Walther,
Someone called Ft Smith one time regarding something not done properly on the CCP and was told....."we didn't think anyone would notice"....:p They don't know this crowd.



Above is a picture of the extractor cut and related steel thickness at the chamber on my new QD model. Note how thick it is compared to the next picture. That light area is not at an angle, it is the flat surface of the chamber steel adjacent to the extractor cut. As you can see while it is not as thick as the chamber rim steel, it is pretty thick. This is a good thing as long as the extractor is working properly and on my pistol it appears to be doing so. If you look very carefully, Walther has left the metal at the extractor cut thicker than in the past. But, does this now cover up the rim of a case, can the extractor tip reach the rim????? On my pistol it can. The reason is that the flat area at the cut has had a few thousandths of material milled off which leaves a gap for the nose of the extractor to drop in front of the chambered rim. How does is work? It seems to work fine for several types of ammo in my pistol but the tip of the extractor does catch pretty far out on the rim. Does it stay in this position when firing so that the spent case will eject properly.....not sure....the only thing my new QD did not do properly was eject consistently. It is likely this little change might make the VQ extractor not work well since it does not have a tip like the stock extractor does.



Here is another Walther short barrel and is typical of what I have seen over the years. Some of them were cut a bit too thin and over time the tip of the extractor would damage the steel. At worst, a chunk of steel would break off here and yes I have a picture of that too somewhere. At another forum the group was puzzling over why a fellows P22 was acting up with Stingers...I took one look, joined to tell him his chamber had blown out and to stop firing it. It was allowing the rear of CCI Stingers to blow out the side. Yeah, that will get your attention.



This picture shows a couple of things. First, for some reason the last three hammer springs I've installed in the target pistol have all overwound....I'm going to have to check something there. The pistol has had the hammer strut removed. By doing this you loose DA but the trigger resets in 1/8" and with an over-travel and pre travel stop you have a very nice target trigger...after some sear work as well....but why the overwind? Does the hammer strut stop rearward movement of the hammer during firing and fast slide cycling. I will check when I put the QD back together. The strut pulls the trigger bar/trigger rearward in a stock pistol but does it stop the hammer. Parts of it are pretty wimpy for that sort of work but this needs more study on my part.

The picture also shows an old ejector on the bottom with peen marks....I didn't add those. And the new ejector on top has larger holes for larger pins. Bet they didn't think we would notice that. Does the Q model have the same ejector with the larger pins....I'd have to look back at my Q model assessment but right now I'm not going to.....just commenting on changes. Like the firing pins that once had very sharp shear edges on the right side from stamping. They are now nicely stamped with no sharp shards of steel. And the extractors, one of the new models and one of my experimental ones from about 2005. I filled the pivot hole with JB Weld, cut the pivot hole close to the business end of the part so that it would clamp down and hold a round on the face of the breech block. Worked too and made for nice, consistent ejection direction of the spent case. The other extractor on the right is the original and it had a huge gap between the face and a rim....spent brass would fly left, right, up, forward, flip onto your hand and hit you right between the eyes. Way back there was thread after thread about this problem. Funny thing is....my stock QD exhibits some of this same behavior, more so than recent P22s. That is probably because my extractor is also not properly fitting against the rim of a round. I will check it upon reassembly but won't bother Ft Smith with the repair.





I sent all of the history and my experiments to VQ and asked them to make us some extractors that would tighten up the gap.....they did....I just wish they had tightened up the gap a bit more. As you can see, there is still some air in there. you can also see that if the chamber cut for the extractor isn't done properly that the reach of the extractor and the rim protrusion is very small. It would not take much for the system to not work if things are off a bit. With the change to milling at the extractor cut....VQ might need to make a few changes to the shape of their tip.



So Walther finally revised the extractor but they didn't tighten it up on the rim either. Hard to see but the gap is about the same as the VQ part.



And, here is a picture of the extractor fitment on my new QD.....see the big improvement the Walther rep says they have taken care of on the new pistols.....how about - not - looks like the same ole same ole to me and now it also appears the tip won't even reach a rim. OK to sum all of this up somewhat...Walther has left the chamber thicker at the extractor cut. To make sure the extractor tip can seat in front of a chambered rim they have machined the rear of the chamber perhaps 0.010" forward so there is a gap for the tip to fall into. How does it work????? Mine will manually extract with a clean chamber....firing, consistent ejection is not so good, more like the old days.





Here is a picture of the breech face of the Walther made Smith M&P .22 full size pistol. Check out that short pivot, no nonsense extractor....razor sharp like you would find on a Ruger and note the foot on the bottom that supports the rim and keeps it precisely positioned on the breech face until ejection. Boy or boy....this would certainly improve the open face P22 breech with the long pivot extractor. So, Walther knows how to do it..... I could go on and on but this is a little bit of just extractor stuff. Trigger bar ears, that is a whole nother story. :) 1917
 

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Pictures won't load

While clipping coils for the thread regarding modifying the P22 to handle subsonic rounds I was looking at three extractors I had laying about. One of the originals, one original I decided to peen on and one of the new ones....I decided to peen on too..:)



Going back seven or eight years ago when I was studying what was causing poor ejection direction I found that it was the large gap between the extractor tip and the rim of the round. Above is a picture of the revised extractor Walther manufactures and has been installed in the P22 since about '06 I'd say. As you can see it doesn't quite close the gap, neither does the VQ model. I had sent them all of the info along with pictures and asked them to make an extractor that would close down the gap, they did.....they just didn't close the gap either. So with a couple of original extractor sitting there I though I'd peen one, take pictures of the original stock one, an original but hand peened one and the new model. Then I'd peen the new one which proved difficult in the past.



Above are three extractors. The one on the right is an original square cut one. The one in the middle is an original that has been peened to bring the face rearward in order to reduce the gap between extractor tip and rim. The closest extractor is the new one. All of these are Walther P22 extractors. As you can see peening moves metal toward the rear, shortens the hook height and creates a very sharp edge. These work very well, better than the new model when peened properly.

The new model has a couple of problems from my experience. First while Walther extended the tip to reduce the gap they didn't reduce it enough. There is a reason for this, the P22 is sold world wide and must fit all rim thicknesses. OK, fair enough. The other problem is that the longer hook reaches in too far and pushes the rim off the center of the face of the breech block. This is of no consequence when firing or hand extracting but can play havoc with ejection direction. Notice that the tip is neither sharp and actually has a slight "S" shape to it where the tip is moved back away from the hook of the new shape.

So, I decided to peen the new one too. I recommended against this originally because the new shape has no supporting metal under the tip and is easily broken off. How do I know this.??? So on this one....I determined to tap very lightly.



Above are two peened extractors including the new one which now has less reach, a sharper tip and less space between it and a rim. Not particularly square peening but my bricks and rocks are getting old.



Both have a nice, sharp hook now and will be lightly polished on the rear side where I was hammering with some 600 grit emery paper.



Reinstalling the peened new style extractor has all but eliminated the gap. Test firing showed excellent ejection direction. The tip is no longer pressing the rim off center on the breech face. If the P22 had the same breech face of the new Walther made S&W M&P 22 then it wouldn't matter if the extractor pressed against the case. On that pistol the rim is nicely enclosed and held in place. So, Walther knows how to do it.....hint, hint, hint.... M1911
Your pictures from Photobucket never load. Have you removed them?
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Send em $500 and you will be up and running again. Pictures held hostage. No thanks. That site is history to me and a lot of other folks now. 1917
 

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Send em $500 and you will be up and running again. Pictures held hostage. No thanks. That site is history to me and a lot of other folks now. 1917
Amen to that. I'm still looking for a good, free site to host my pics.
Any recommendations?
We're all using Google Photos for off-site storage (in addition to storing pics at home) and imgur to post pics to forums. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Imgur is much, much faster to upload .......but, this third part hosting is the deal. Pbucket provided all the links for it then decided to hold everyones pictures. Imgur does the same thing but I still think there is some question regarding third party hosting. Some of you younger, more computer savvy guys can probably assess this better than I. I'm using Imgur but when everyone shifts over to them....will we see the same game? 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #51
What's your Army history Snubbtfan if you don't mind me asking? I was in the Army '69 to '71 with a trip to Nam thrown in. 1917
 

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Imgur is much, much faster to upload .......but, this third part hosting is the deal. Pbucket provided all the links for it then decided to hold everyones pictures. Imgur does the same thing but I still think there is some question regarding third party hosting. Some of you younger, more computer savvy guys can probably assess this better than I. I'm using Imgur but when everyone shifts over to them....will we see the same game? 1917
I'd like to see this site do, as some others do, let you upload directly from your hard drive.
 

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Photobucket now charges for photo hosting. He probably decided not to join the site...and in doing so his previous photos won't show up.
Really? I was never told that. I checked my Photobucket a few days ago, and my pictures are all still there. I successfully uploaded one a couple of days ago, just to see if I was still able to do it.

I just checked. The pic is there, but it will not let me highlight and copy the link to transfer here. Hmmm. Thanks for telling me.

Where do we go not to do that?
 

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What you wanna see MudBug....I still have the photos. 1917
Nothing really at this point. I just noticed in the earlier links that your photobucket pictures never came up. I wondered what was happening, and if you were aware of it.

I tried uploading one of the pics that I posted with the laser attached to the P22. It went in okay, but when I tried to copy the link as usual, it would not let me copy it to paste here.

Guess you have to be a paid member now.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Photobucket locked up everyone's photos and held them hostage for $400. Pay them $400 and they would free them up again. Up until that point they had pointedly advertised free hosting and provided links to forums. They screwed up big time doing this and most of us had no alternative but to pay the ransom or leave. I deleted all of my photos and left....and will never look back. A lot of people feel exactly the same...this extends way beyond just gun forums. Not long after they realized they screwed up and made people mad. They want people to come back....not likely for those that got rudely treated by them.

I always keep the photos that are important although it is a chore to re-host, read through a thread and try to put the proper photo in the proper place. That is why you see so many pictures missing on all forums, not just here and not just mine. 1917
 

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... Not long after they realized they screwed up and made people mad. They want people to come back....
Oh sure they will --but only for the spectacle of watching those cretins roast in the hell of bankruptcy. In the pantheon of corporate miscalculations, that one must take First Prize.

M
 
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