[chandler5566]

I'd bet it's not nominal....of course that depends on the size of your bank account. Since he hasn't received the bars yet I doubt that he knows which way, if any, the shoes move. Since they are selling into the US I have to believe the FPB horn is identical to the factory trigger bar.

 

[scootertramp]

Links to pix are a couple of posts below this one.

Did my own drop test with my Q5 SF today with the trigger blade safety disabled - 10 drops onto concrete with only a towel on the floor to soften the blow. Five of the drops were from waist height simulating dropping the pistol from the draw, and five drops from essentially shoulder height, approximately 4.5 feet.

Hopefully I can post pics of my trigger mod so it will be clear as to what I did to it. Anyhow, five drops from waist height, with the adjustment screw set so the trigger safety blade was just barely inoperative resulted in no striker fires of the primed case. Dropping from shoulder height resulted in the striker hitting the primer three out of five tries.

What was really interesting is if the dropped pistol hit directly on the beavertail then the striker was not released. However, the combination of any part of the rear of the slide in conjunction with the beavertail hitting the concrete, the striker would trip and hit the primer every time.

I am running a Vanek light Glock striker spring so am not certain if that was a contributing factor or not. Backing the adjusting screw out so that the trigger blade made minimal contact with the frame resulted in no striker releases. Since I had no failures there I did not try dropping it with the adjusting screw backed all the way out for maximum trigger blade contact with the frame.

Well poop - I'm once again having great difficulty adding pix - can I send 'em to one of you guys to post 'em for me?

Rich

 

[scootertramp]

I heard $95, dunno how true but that's the figure I recall hearing.

I'd bet it's not nominal....of course that depends on the size of your bank account. Since he hasn't received the bars yet I doubt that he knows which way, if any, the shoes move. Since they are selling into the US I have to believe the FPB horn is identical to the factory trigger bar.

 

[scootertramp]

Dunno what all that includes though.

I heard $95, dunno how true but that's the figure I recall hearing.

 

[scootertramp]

https://imgur.com/a/gBqMVCa

https://imgur.com/IjMl9Yu

 

[balance]

I really, really don't think people understand just how easily the PPQ could discharge with no drop safety and no firing pin block. They put these safety systems, and more, on other pistols that are not 100% pre-cocked like the PPQ. Glock pistols, which are only partially-cocked, have a drop safety on the trigger, a safety on the cruciform to stop the striker from jarring off the sear, and a firing pin block.

If what I'm reading is true, then without a firing pin block and a drop safety, this trigger has effectively bypassed ALL safety systems designed into the PPQ to stop it from firing out of battery, to stop it from going full auto very easily, and to stop it from firing from a drop very easily.

Nobody should be using this trigger, even if only the drop safety is removed from the design. That should be bad enough, but it is much, much worse if the firing pin block has been bypassed as well.

 

[balance]

Dropping from shoulder height resulted in the striker hitting the primer three out of five tries.

Backing the adjusting screw out so that the trigger blade made minimal contact with the frame resulted in no striker releases.

Thank you for putting these results out there. Thank you for reinforcing what I've been saying all along.

This is an incredibly dangerous modification for most modern striker fired pistols. Even more so if you add lighter springs. Would you feel comfortable with this pistol dropping at your side with a live round in the chamber?

Also keep in mind that if you disengaged the firing pin block by pushing that trigger to the rear, then that pistol is also extremely dangerous in regards to firing out of battery or going full auto.

People should not be making these modifications to their pistols. The above results were likely due to disengaging the drop safety on the trigger, ONLY. If the firing pin block were to be bypassed as well, there are PPQ pistols out there that will jar the striker off of the sear in a drop from as little as 18".

 

[imaoldfart]

Agree with everything Balance said. I'd still like to see one to see for myself what they're offering and exactly how it works. BUT, if we're unable to get the searhousing over here, all we can do is guess.

ST, I'm still having trouble understanding how you installed a set screw to make adjustments to the center trigger blade. I've attached one of your pictures with an arrow pointing to what looks to me like a set screw....a screw my triggers don't have. But, after looking at a trigger assembly that I disassembled, I don't see how a screw in that position would have any effect on the center blade. The only difference is I'm looking at regular Q's, including Q5 Match plastic....maybe the SF has a little different shoe/blade configuration....idk.

 

[scootertramp]

old fart - I drilled a horizontal hole & threaded it for the half inch long set screw, it did not come from the factory with the set screw. I'll see if I can get a pic posted from behind the trigger for you. When you turn that screw out counterclockwise (as pictured) to make more contact with the frame it causes the rear of the safety blade to no longer make any contact with the rear of the frame - so it shortens the reset considerably but defeats completely the trigger safety. Never messed with the FBB but concur either or both of these modifications are UNSAFE and should not be attempted!

https://imgur.com/lhIkisN

 

[scootertramp]

Sorry for how dirty the pistol is- you can see the back of the set screw in about the center of the pix - hope that helps ya a bit old fart!
https://imgur.com/lhIkisN

 

[imaoldfart]

Okay, after your explanation, I see exactly what you're doing. We had a guy a few years ago doing something very similar. He wanted to limit the forward position of the trigger or reduce the pretravel, and that's what you're doing, you're reducing the pretravel which sets the lip of the center blade up inside the frame meaning the drop safety blade is no longer effective.

So, your set screw has NO contact with the center trigger blade, absolutely none. What you're seeing happening with the drop safety blade is, with the screw backed out, limiting the forward position of the trigger, the drop safety is simply still captured up inside the frame and has not been able to reset to a location outside the frame. In addition, the more you unscrew that screw, positioning the trigger farther to the rear, the tab on the trigger bar is coming into contact with the ramp on the Firing Pin Safety (we normally refer to it as a Firing Pin Block FPB), and it's starting to push the FPB up into the slide. ALL of this is a bad idea, making the pistol unsafe, by bypassing the drop safety in the trigger and partially compressing the FPB into the slide.

My advice is to remove that set screw and wait for Apex to provide a trigger for the SF.

For educational purposes, remove your mag, check the chamber to make sure its empty. Now, shine a flashlight down the magwell and watch what happens as you move the trigger back and forth. Adjust the set screw to where the drop safety remains captured in the frame and once again, look down the magwell as you fiddle with the trigger. How much is the FPB compressed with the screw adjusted out, limiting the forward position of the trigger?

Here's a link to the udder guy's post. https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/88233-mod-shorten-pretravel-trigger.html

Added: I didn't need the last picture. After I read your description in post 109, I had it figured out.

I really wondered why anyone would use a set screw to adjust the drop safety center blade from stock, and working to completely depressed and totally ineffective. I mean, what would be the purpose of doing that. Also couldn't figure out why anyone would drop their pistol (multiple times) to see if the pistol would fire with the drop safety bypassed. All of this wondering and I simply misunderstood what the mod actually did.....NOW I understand what's happening...what the mod actually did....adjust/limit the forward position of the trigger.

 

[chandler5566]

OF....the expert bar looks to be identical to my factory trigger bar.

 

[imaoldfart]

Yes, I've been looking at pictures and they do look the same. I'd give $25 for one....just for chits and grins.

 

[scootertramp]

Thanks for that suggestion old fart - frankly I didn't give much consideration to the FPB until balance & you mentioned it. Have no plans of keeping that set screw in, just wanted to satisfy my own curiosity.

Thanks again!

Okay, after your explanation, I see exactly what you're doing. We had a guy a few years ago doing something very similar. He wanted to limit the forward position of the trigger or reduce the pretravel, and that's what you're doing, you're reducing the pretravel which sets the lip of the center blade up inside the frame meaning the drop safety blade is no longer effective.

So, your set screw has NO contact with the center trigger blade, absolutely none. What you're seeing happening with the drop safety blade is, with the screw backed out, limiting the forward position of the trigger, the drop safety is simply still captured up inside the frame and has not been able to reset to a location outside the frame. In addition, the more you unscrew that screw, positioning the trigger farther to the rear, the tab on the trigger bar is coming into contact with the ramp on the Firing Pin Safety (we normally refer to it as a Firing Pin Block FPB), and it's starting to push the FPB up into the slide. ALL of this is a bad idea, making the pistol unsafe, by bypassing the drop safety in the trigger and partially compressing the FPB into the slide.

My advice is to remove that set screw and wait for Apex to provide a trigger for the SF.

For educational purposes, remove your mag, check the chamber to make sure its empty. Now, shine a flashlight down the magwell and watch what happens as you move the trigger back and forth. Adjust the set screw to where the drop safety remains captured in the frame and once again, look down the magwell as you fiddle with the trigger. How much is the FPB compressed with the screw adjusted out, limiting the forward position of the trigger?

Here's a link to the udder guy's post. https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/88233-mod-shorten-pretravel-trigger.html

Added: I didn't need the last picture. After I read your description in post 109, I had it figured out.

 

[imaoldfart]

Come on Earl, get the whole shabang.....I'd buy one strictly for educational purposes.

 

[chandler5566]

Come on Earl, get the whole shabang.....I'd buy one strictly for educational purposes.

Let's see. OF...education....Hmmmm..is that one of those oxy things?

Remember, you'd also have to purchase the SF to fully explore. Only the bar is compatible across all PPQ's.

 

[imaoldfart]

Just a minute.....I have a grinder and a fresh tube of JB Weld.

 

[chandler5566]

Damn!...I should have remembered that...JB can fix anything!

 

[imaoldfart]

Remember, you'd also have to purchase the SF to fully explore.

.

Hmmmmm, are you sure????

 

[chandler5566]

Hmmmmm, are you sure????

Definitely not sure but I was wondering how that development would look....anything like this?