If I had a Hammer.

 

Hammer Vs Striker-Fired

I love my hammer-fired pistols & revolvers. But, my EDC is a loaded PPS, and I don't give a single thought how the firing pin fires off a round, nor is the trigger safety a point of concern, as almost every maker is using the technology Glock (tho not a fan of them) developed quite a few decades ago. And it works. It does come down to preferences, and I certainly understand why a good many shooters feel more comfortable with hammer-fired guns.

 

I love my hammer-fired pistols & revolvers. But, my EDC is a loaded PPS, and I don't give a single thought how the firing pin fires off a round, nor is the trigger safety a point of concern, as almost every maker is using the technology Glock (tho not a fan of them) developed quite a few decades ago. And it works. It does come down to preferences, and I certainly understand why a good many shooters feel more comfortable with hammer-fired guns.

Glock? I think H&K developed it with the VP70. Anyway, that said, I have a CCP that for safety sake I cock with out any rounds to set the striker without the remote chance of the pin riding back with a round. Then load a magazine and cock again to load the round. Yes, the CCP can engage a round from the magazine prior to setting the striker. Due to that, I continue with the old school desire to have a hammer and would love to see Walther making them again. I think principally manufactures should look at it from the users perspective and terms of engagement, frequency, and consequences. As a civilian, almost at all cost AVOID shooting and the unlikeliness of needing to defend yourself with such force in the first place. While as a LEO would want to avoid shooting if possible although the possiblity of needing such force is greatly increasaed. Then military on partol, need is imminent. Of course, this is just another opinion.

 

Maybe they will make a Da/Sa creed

 

I would think in many ways the Creed is your answer for the Walther DA.

 

Shooting the snot out of my Kel-Tec P11 (8.5 lbs DAO) until I reliably could hit bullseye with it every time without having to work on it made a GREAT handgun shooter out of me. Makes shooting any gun with a lesser trigger pull weight completely effortless.

 

There is enormous wisdom in this. Fire 2,000 rounds out of any gun with poor sights and a stiff trigger pull at a silhouette 50 feet away, and routinely achieve instinctive head hits, and you'll become an immensely better shot.

M

 

So my take on the "don't shoot yourself" campaign is that a certain type of cheap, striker fired, no manual safety gun that's marketed to civilians, LE, and now military....being used by thugs and LEO's alike, some of whom only know that if you squeeze the trigger it goes bang and a hole gets made in something....I won't mention any names but they rhyme with block and look like a 2x4 LOL

The bean counters and the department's budget often dictate how much an officer gets to the range.

I'm not saying you or I couldn't have an ND (not AD...how is it an accident???), but with care in regards to trigger discipline, knowing the vector your barrel is pointed, and simply not being an assjack can and do go a long way in not shooting stuff that's best not shot

I won't argue that manual safeties can be safer, for instance on hunting firearms where a round may be chambered for a time before being fired, but my opinion is that a properly carried striker pistol, carried by someone who is vigilant and safety oriented is no less safe.

As far as the heavier DA pulls, it's been proven that with practice, one can master and be exceedingly accurate with them

Don't forget where I said "with practice". The rub is that again, most Dept's don't have funding or time to put in that kind of time.

My dad has some old Winchester .22 that has a trigger that is so light, it takes little effort to fire.
In a controlled test, we were able to fire it merely by slapping the end of the stock, inertia was enough to make the trigger move enough to fire it. Someone boogered the trigger up prior to his buying it. Great shooting gun otherwise.

A gnat's fart would easily move it.

 

I won't mention any names but they rhyme with block and look like a 2x4 LOL

Despite their blocky appearance I've always found Glocks to be quite comfortable in my hand.

As far as the heavier DA pulls, it's been proven that with practice, one can master and be exceedingly accurate with them

I'll agree with that. Shooting revolvers DAO has been a satisfying challenge with the added benefit that it has greatly improved my pistol shooting.

 

Good point on "ease of use," but I would rank them slightly differently for basic use...once they're loaded and ready to go, how easy are they to use:

(1) All SA firearms. Once they are ready to go, they're ready to go. Point & squeeze

(2) All DA firearms. Same as above, but higher trigger weights make it slightly more difficult to hit target. See NYPD shooting reports...lots of shots fired for the number of hits.

(3) All SA/DA firearms. Almost put this at #2, but since you have two options instead of one. Anyone well trained could move this up to (1A) if they keep it in SA mode.

Personally I don't see any difference between striker-fired and hammer-fired pistols when it comes to "ease of use." The action taken by the shooter is the same.

Another concept (for CC) is how easy it is to have an accidental discharge (AD). Highest probably to lowest:

(1) SA pistols without manual safety (includes SA/DA pistols carried in SA mode)

(2) DA (only) pistols, and SA/DA pistols in DA mode. Their higher trigger pull slightly lessons the probability of an AD over the lighter triggers on SA pistols

(3) Pistols with a manual safety. Significantly decreases the possibility of an AD due to the fact it requires the shooter to take one additional action.

The tradeoff of #3 is the fact that in a stressful situation, the shooter must do one additional action. If he forgets, the pistol doesn't fire. But on the other hand, he's much less likely to shoot himself. My #1 rule for CC is "don't shoot me."

Anyone want to guess why I don't do "appendix carry?" Although it's probably easier to access & conceal, not a fan of pointing a firearm in that direction...lol

 

Looks I started something.....

Naturally guys when it comes to this topic, even the experts don’t agree 🙂

From ease of use, I rank guns like this:

- Revolvers (DA)

- Revolvers (DA/SA)

- Striker Guns (DA)

- Hammer Exposed (DAO)

- Hanmer Exposed (SA)

- Hammer exposed (SA/DA)

So I will give you guys that.

 

Agreed, HMC, not much compares with a S&W revolver’s trigger in single action. My Model 27-2 does that mind-release break that you describe, and even the best semi-auto triggers like a 1911 are still not quite there. Poly Wonder 9s have other attributes that make them so very popular, but old-school steel remains my go-to choice, regardless of platform. YMMV

 

I cut my teeth on hammers and prefer the DA triggers.

 

For those of us who cut their teeth on Smith revos in single action mode, nothing else will ever compare...a good Smith trigger can almost be thought into breaking.
Modern, striker, triggers are a whole different creature, and require a different approach...instead of gradually increasing pressure with the pad, a deliberate pull with the distal joint works much better. But, in both cases, you can't jerk it. Actually, striker guns are more effectively fired like a double action revolver, with the same roll-thru', of a much shorter stroke.
Changing back and forth between the two types is a PITA.
Moon

 

Actually, striker guns are more effectively fired like a double action revolver, with the same roll-thru', of a much shorter stroke.
Changing back and forth between the two types is a PITA.
Moon

I agree with this. The technique to fire the a striker gun, at least the service grade variety, is similar to the technique used with a good DA revolver. Both have a lot to offer in a defensive pistol.



Now, as striker triggers get shorted, lighter and crisper that changes I think and become more similar to shooting a traditional hammer fired SA gun.

 

To every "rule", there is an exception........

 

I will dissent from the dominant opinion here; real handguns have a hammer and wear wood grips

 

It is true hammer fired guns, at their best have better triggers. The gap had narrowed though.

The current generation of striker guns have pretty darn good triggers. Walther deserves a lot of credit for setting the pace with that.

Walther is again pushing the envelope with their Expert comp trigger. They are not the only ones.

It's also not a given that hammered fired guns have better trigger pulls. I have an HK45 and an HK P30sk. I have absolute faith they will go "boom" when asked. Build quality and accuracy are top notch. But the triggers??? Meh...not very good to be honest.

At the end of the day, the simplicity and cost effectivenes of striker fired guns will rule the day. They are easy to build, operate and maintain.

It's easy to predict striker triggers will continue to improve. Perhaps soon, the norm will be a pistol with a clean, 3lb striker trigger and a manual safety of some sort. Homage to the 1911.

 

Quote; "I can break my guns down in about the time it took you to read this sentence, maybe less.

Try that with a 1911

Then again, the 1911 is from a time when men had balls and respect, and those times are long gone..."


That last sentence is exactly why I purchased a Para 14.45 GI Expert for myself (birthday last year). Every handgun collection needs a 1911, and every handgun enthusiast needs to know how to disassemble/reassemble one WITHOUT causing the idiot scratch.


Just grabbed my 2019 B'day gun, the POF AR-10 in .308, another gun from the "balls and respect" era (mid/late 1950s).

 

Sometimes what is old is new....

Anyway, I honestly think that guns with exposed hammers have the ability to have better triggers. I also think an exposed hammer is an advantage when holstering. Then when you consider the addition of a decocker, they are better guns generally than striker fired options.

The only clear advantage of a striker fired gun is a hammer that won’t get snagged.

 

when you consider the addition of a decocker, they are better guns generally than striker fired

Let's not let a good fact get in the way of personal opinion...

Let us visit the P99AS....what some consider the grail of the poly framed world.

There's two distinct camps...those who love the hell out of it, and those who don't care for the DA/SA trigger.

Then there are the few (myself included) who think the package is great, but long for it in SAO, or in layman's terms...give the damned thing a PPQ trigger and be done with it.

Now Walther had a thing with the P99QA, though the trigger is very Glock-like, and completely uhlike that of the PPQ or the '99AS's SA mode. That said...I think if the P99QA had a smooth silky SAO trigger like the PPQ, but with a decocker that completely unco9cks the striker, that...would my everything gun.

Hammers? Only if I'm building something.

I appreciate hammer guns....I really do. But when I carry, I want something easy to use, pull, aim, and shoot if mr scumbag acts stupid.

I ain't got time to fiddle-fart around with a fully loaded luxury car when a simple A to B truck does the job. (Says the guy with a Lexus and fully loaded Eddie Bauer Explorer LOL)

I can break my guns down in about the time it took you to read this sentence, maybe less.

Try that with a 1911

Then again, the 1911 is from a time when men had balls and respect, and those times are long gone...

 

You F'ed Lord Vader???

 

 

The prior post pic made me think of this......

 

When most of today's hammer pistol offerings are of a design from over 100 years...it's a double edged sword..are they in the past, or are they the "next big thing"?

Well...how many brand new, clean sheet of paper design hammer fired pistols are being made..right NOW?


There's likely a certain demographic that hammer guns cater to, and I'd daresay that were it not for competition, that pool is shrinking...

To answer the OP's question...

The answer is simple. From Ulm, no. They don't have the room.

Unless they tool up in Fort Smith, there'll not be a new hammer fired gun with "Walther" on it.
And do you really want the BB Gun factory making you a new gun?

 

do you really want the BB Gun factory making you a new gun?

So much this.

After the failure of the P88, I'm guessing that Ulm no longer has any interest in revisiting the hammer fired pistol. As much as I like the P5, Sig classic P series, and the Beretta 92, their day is done. The market has spoken, and spoken quite loudly. The all metal DA/SA hammer fired pistol will quietly fade from the market place, ending up in the same place as the Colt Single Action Army. An elegant weapon, from a more civilized time...

 

And it probably was not the first.

The earliest one I know of was the Roth-Steyr 1907.

They've been around for a while. It was one of the first semi-automatic pistols to be adopted by a military.

 

The earliest one I know of was the Roth-Steyr 1907.

The C93 Borchardt and Luger are both striker fired as well. In the early days of the automatic pistol the striker was pretty common. It wasn't until the 1930's that hammer fired pistols started to become the norm. I think the success of the 1911 was bolstered by the PP, P.38, and Hi Power.

But to answer the original question I'm the wrong person to ask. I didn't think Walther would ever make a .45 or bring back an all steel pistol either. They might suprise us yet.

 

I switched from a striker fired EDC to a XDE and love it.

 

DA/SA hammer guns have a few characteristics that LEO/Military have come to find undesirable. The striker gun resolves these issues.


The heavy DA pull is a nice feature that reduces accidental discharge (AD), we can all agree on that.
This "feature" becomes an issue when the operator is in a stressful situation, with a cocked hammer, and puts his finger inside the trigger guard/goes on trigger. Plenty of ADs/accidental shootings (AS) have been attributed to thinking "DA trigger" while handling a gun in "SA trigger" condition.
There is also the act of inexperienced operators "throwing away" the first DA shot in a stressful situation, because their lack of training with the DA/SA platform leaves them with little ability in DA mode. It would take untold millions of dollars in time/ammo/training to get the US Military/US LEOs proficient in DA/SA sidearms.



It's much easier to train "booger hook" outside the trigger guard until ready to fire (striker gun), then proper DA/SA etiquette. The consistent trigger pull of strike fire guns does away with the "first shot throw away" issue too.



Don't get me started on DA/SA hammer guns with manual safety. A next level item for "assumption of condition" causing ADs & ASs.

 

I think balance pretty much covered it.

These days most military and law enforcement agencies are buying striker fired pistols. If your main business (Walther) is building guns for these agencies you might take that in consideration when designing and building service pistols.

There is a little bit of fashion in firearms. Trends come and go. Right now the popular thing for institutional use is a striker fired consistent pull handgun. They are simple and cheap to build and service. Easy to shoot well enough.

If that were to change I'd expect Walther to adapt. Until then, probably not.

No one is saying hammered fired guns are obsolete. They still work just fine as do DA revolvers. They are no longer the "in thing" for purchases by most militaries and police forces.

I expect companies still making them will continue to for as long as it is profitable for them to do so.

The Springfield XDE is an interesting attempt to reach a certain part of the civilian CC market that I think you are speaking for.

I have no idea how its selling or if its catching on. What do you think?

 

Did I miss a post in this thread???


I didn't see anyone shoveling dirt on hammer fired handguns.


The topic, "Will WALTHER ever produce another hammer fired pistol", in NO way decides the life/death of the hammer.

 

Sorry, but that was directed more towards this comment:

"The day of the double/single action has come and gone"

I'm not alone with the group that prefers SA/DA "hammer-fired" pistols.

I bought a G23C around the turn of the century, and although I liked it, I never really fell in love with it. It might have been the "spongy" trigger or the ergonomics of a 2"x4", but it never really felt like it was an extension of me.

It wasn't until I bought a PPQ that I found a striker-fired pistol I loved. Now if I was using it for competition, would go with whatever I liked shooting the most (which at this time would be my PPQ), but give me something with a decocker or an external manual safety for my CC pistol. They just add an additional layer of safety while carrying with "one in the pipe."