[tommtomaso]

Should mention that the reason I didn't just drill straight threw the frame and safety bar is because the drill would catch the bar on the edge and walk off...eather breaking the drill or ruining the frame.

Here is the firearm blog link.
The Firearm Blog » Walther PPS Review

 

[tommtomaso]

Mine was used...came with the large strap on...I removed and tried the smaller..didn't like so went back to the lrg.....who knows how many times mine got changed before I go it...but polymer lip catching on a 90% metal lip at 20lbs isn't going to have a long shelf life.....pun intended.

Now it doesn't matter.

 

[tommtomaso]

Structurally, pining the lever is more sound...your just locking a component that was ment to Be locked......removing parts changes the whole structure as it was originally designed

And you don't lose the feature of making it safe for storage and such...

 

[tommtomaso]

I'm not interested in utilizing the mechanism for storage. It's a liability in my mind, and I'd never make a habit of removing the backstrap as I don't trust its attachment system.

Drilling the parts is inherently structurally weakening them, though possibly not fatally.

Removing parts is not necessarily structurally weakening the pistol unless they are stress bearing parts. It's possible that the spring pressure of the compressed strut against the sear housing does add a little support against recoil forces on the chassis through the bosses on the sear housing, but given the force vectors and other support points in the beavertail area I'm doubtful it's functionally significant by any stretch. However, if it is significant, one could possibly just remove the decocker from the system or simply cut the hook off, then, in order to allow the backstrap to be affixed permanently without preventing removal of the chassis, cut the strut engagement tab off the back of the backstrap, then mark the place where the end of the strut should be when the backstrap is locked on, remove the spring from the strut, coat the strut and the bottom and groove of the sear housing with release compound, and reinstall with the sear housing in grip frame. Then position the strut in its compressed position per the marking, then inject and shape plastic welder into the strut groove so it will bond to the grip frame plastic and fill the cavity below the tip of the strut and form a support/stop for the strut when the spring is reinstalled. Once the plastic welder sets, remove the sear housing, clean off the release compound, reinstall the spring on the strut, and reassemble the pistol. You'll just have to press the sear housing and chassis down into the grip frame against the strut spring's resistance and hold it there while tapping the rear frame pin in. At least that's how it all seems to me based strictly on diagrams and photos.

As far as I can tell, the strut makes no structurally supportive contact anywhere else. There is perhaps a question about the decocker itself because it fits in a space between the chassis and the sear housing, filling that space, but again, it's not braced against anything. The only possibility is if it actually fits tight enough that it provides support against chassis flex during recoil, but that would require that exact spot of the chassis to flex inward for some reason, and enough to press the decocker against the side of the sear housing. Again, given the position of things and the likely stresses on the chassis, I just don't see it being an issue.

However, if you did take the strut out completely, you could simply extend the tracking-boss on the side of the polymer decocker with some plastic welder so it becomes fixed in its chassis track in the unactivated position. Alternatively one could cut the decocking hook off of the decocker (for piece of mind) and let the dococker's spring hold it upward so it doesn't rattle.

Seems to me the two parts in question are free moving and have no bearing on structural integrity nor other functioning parts except when the decocker is pulled down by the strut. In other words the system seems independent and passive, and removing it would be much like removing many magazine safeties.

I was just wondering if anyone who's actually had one apart for detailed inspection can confirm this or counter it with a detailed explanation of what it would interfere with or remove support from.

Well it's your gun...only one way to find out...
Sounds like you know the insides better then me...
But even if you never want to safe store..my locked way is just that LOCKED
Iv done plenty of mechanical tinkering...it's never been a great idea to remove components that interact with others....but might lighten up the weighty thin slab...lol

 

[tommtomaso]

IMHO, this is the best route to go. Once one finds the backstrap that they are comfortable with, no reason to remove it.

Iv heard this a lot...but bottom line , as it stands right now theirs damm little keeping your slide on...drop your pistol in a situation that you NEED it and that back strap could pop right off. Mine will not unless I remove it's lock pin.

But it's all comfort level...after I saw what could happen...that was it...fix in a positive way...or get a diferent pistol.
I chose to fix......it's that good of a pistol.

Polymer pressing against a metal lip at about 20lbs will not last....the parameter of failure are way to high.. I'm positive my failure was from poor removal tecneque...but I read the instruction to remove...worked fine on the small strap....but the large one was cooked.
If this pistol is a range toy then I'd say no problem...limbsaver looks like a simple safety implement for this issue...but I didn't want that kind of retention...I wanted it rock solid.
I carry mine everyday as a tool in my Selfdefence strategy .....I just don't have to worry about it now.

 

[tommtomaso]

100MPH tape??? On the frame???

If this takes the give out of the backstrap I'd love to try it, but I've never heard of that tape, and would like to know more about this fix. Pictures???

Pinning it the way I did, removes all play in the backstrap.....but duct tape is quicker....about 100mph quicker

 

[tommtomaso]

I think I'd be happier with the pin.

Didn't realise I had that 100MPH tape in the garage! Thanks

If its not military grade, it's only good up to 75 mph

 

[tommtomaso]

nice job! really wish walther would address this design issue! I never remove the backstrap bc it will fail eventually!

Thanks....it's a design adjustment that's quite simple to do in production for Walther...and considering all the new slim nines on the market I would consider this almost a nessessity. I realy kinda have to laugh at those that think this isn't an issue...well not until it happens to them..
Grip wraps do seem to be a great band aid fix, and as simple as you can get...I just like knowing its more rock solid.
Just picked up a PPQ for CC , so the PPS is now for summer carry only.

Not sure if you noticed the laser I installed with a custom grove to get the laser actuator right were my finger rests at discipline ...http://www.laserlyte.com/products/fsl-3. .but it's also a great addition and with just a simple tweak on a crossbreed IWB holster set up for an XDm it works great.....I'm not a huge fan of the crossbreed IWB ...it's very squeaky ,
But even with the micro laser on my new PPQ it fits in the crossbreed.

 

[tommtomaso]

See, there's your problem, you're thinking like a normal person. Go and actually talk to a prosecutor. They would have a goddamn field day.

Don't mess with it, it's not broken. Pick a size, and leave the goddamn thing on. I have tossed my PPS several times and nothing EVER happened to the back-strap. No point being couch commandos and pretending to come up with a solution to a "problem".

Here is your real problem...this "adjustment" doesn't change the safety feature at all...it addresses the issue of a safety latch failing. Otherwise theirs no diferance in a prosecutors eye if you put a limbsaver on the gun to do the same thing.

Here is another issue your failing to grasp....people have had issues with the backstrap...just because yours has not failed YET in no way protects you from future failures..
I love how in referance to law your conceptual comprehension is spot on...but when it's about the possibilitys of your backstrap failing your missing the connection.
As it stands now...thier are no connections to legal prosecution for pinning the backstrap.
Yet thier are actual connections to backstrap failure. Do the math.

 

[tommtomaso]

It fails due people incessantly changing sizes. Just take the gun apart like a damn Glock and you'll be fine. I don't understand how simply keeping the backstrap on in place, without taking it on and off like a tool, will cause that "weak, defective piece of polymer" to disintegrate like a fart in the wind.

Well this is kinda true.....I don't know how many times my straps were put on and off....but others have stated less then twice. But my point is it can happen....and as a CCW holder I kinda work in the " what ifs" mind set.

 

[tommtomaso]

A few weeks after I bought my PPS, I heard noises in the back bedroom so I grabbed it and went to investigate. After I walked through the house, I noticed that the backstrap was detached about an eighth of an inch. The gun was disabled and useless. At that time, I had only had the backstrap off a few times to play with it. The next day I bent the plastic tab to give it a tighter fit and replaced it until S&W sent me a new one which I have not removed since installation.

As I've said in other posts: The backstrap can randomly pop off and disable your gun. Plastic rubbing on metal is an amateur hour design flaw and Walther should be ashamed of themselves for doing it. It's a fundamental flaw that might get somebody killed someday.

Eventually I will figure out a way to permanently attach it or maybe cast a new one with a metal clip on it. Until then, I just have to be extra sure that it's still attached.

If your not willing to pin it....then defiantly get a limbsaver for it, or tape it down.
Otherwise thank Walther for at least putting a big red dot on the end so you know when it's a go..no go.

 

[tommtomaso]

When the strap is installed properly you could grip it as hard as you can and I don't think it will matter. Key word being "properly".

For what it's worth, I have tossed my PPS and beat on it more than most and it hasn't budged. If it gives you peace of mind, go for it, but I think the easiest solution is to pick a size and stick to it.

I'm not looking to beat this horse into glue....
But how often do you remove the backstrap to clean and oil the components thier? I have only twice in a year...dust bunnys abound near the base ,but I lightly oil the parts to ward of possible rust. The catch bar and safey lever seem to be made of a mill grade high zinc steel..possibly stainless but I'm not positive on this. I work in precious metals exclusively ...but have enough experiance with titanium and some steels...but very little in stainless.
Iv seen no signs of rust after a years worth of CC...and it has gotten quite wet a few times, but I did protect the parts with oil.
I'm wondering if "pick a backstrap and leave it" isn't the best option for up keep.....

 

[tommtomaso]

In general, it's annoying that there is a feature with the gun where the best practice is to not use it because it'll break it and disable the gun.

If my power windows in my car disabled the car if used regularly, the manufacturer would issue a recall. With the backstrap problem, S&W and Walther are mum. How about a backstrap with a metal clip instead of plastic?

Surely they could fix this if they had any interest in doing so.

I'm thinking it's cheaper to just send out free new backstraps... That and the large group that yells....." pick a backstrap and leave it" just supports thier isn't a problem. I'll look into who to email my fix (at Walther) and see what I get for a response....but I bet nothing...too many pistols for them to update too much exposure.

 

[tommtomaso]

For most users of the pistol, this is a non-issue and has been from Day One, which is the reason why Walther doesn't address it (and S&W, as the importer on in-field repair service over here, has little or no say in the matter, particularly now with a divorce pending). My advice: If it concerns you, add a Limbsaver or other similar device and keep smiling.

Great...but do you remove said strap to clean your gun.? Do you even dare? ..and if the backstrap fails...will said large rubber band keep the backstrap in place..because the pressure is down to keep the lever in the fire possition..not pressed in.( well the backstrap is pressed up to possition safty bar in the fire position,but if the strap fails..it's presses down)
Iv pinned mine so I can smile even while removing my backstrap....heck I can lose my backstrap and pin...find a paper clip if I had to..and still smile knowing my gun will still work.
Till someone tests a failed backstrap with a limbsaver and shows good....the wrap isn't the best idea...it's just better then nothing.

 

[tommtomaso]

I installed the large backstrap, put a LimbSaver over it, and haven't given it another thought. I shoot that little gun a lot, and am not at all worried about the backstrap detaching. It's not going anywhere with the LimbSaver, and I haven't modified the gun in a way that could cause warranty or legal problems.

But to each his own.

Warranty is an issue....but legal isn't. Pinning does nothing but fixes a failure point in the plastic..it doesn't change anything about what fires the weapon or makes it easier to pull the trigger..or removes a safety devise ...otherwise any attorney could argue the limbsaver is doing the same and could also fall under the same scrutiny for legal action....

This REMINDES me of a stupid question from a poster if I would tell any future buyer about the modifications iv done.
Yep..I'd show them what it takes to remove said pin...then show what happens when a backstrap fails..and then ask them " what's better all original with a weak point..or pinned ". I would end up selling to the one who has good conceptual inteligence. Not that I would sell mine...I love it.

 

[tommtomaso]

Sorry for the stupid question, Tomm.

Yes, of course you would show it off like a used car salesman without informing them of any negative aspects of the glorious, permanent modification.

But not because you are a bad person, you probably don't see any negatives in it... because you refuse to. If you cover one eye with your hand, it doesn't mean that half of the world you see ceases to exist. You just lose some perspective is all.

I don't know, maybe Walther is drooling over your mod and will incorporate it in the next iteration, or get rid of the removable backstrap altogether (best solution). You should probably patent it so you get the credit!

Your such an ass...your defamatory tone just shows your a compleat idiot.
...yes I had the balls to see what was wrong and fix it...your the bind one...everything's perfect with the PPS , you actually act like fixing it is like pissing on your god or beleif....
If my mod means so little to you why do you take such time to try and discredit it with your defamatory tone?
Have you even taken a close look at what iv done? ..because even with my "rain x" ego...at least I can admit When I'm wrong. This just isn't one of them.
...I have permently fixed a failure point in the PPS..sure thier are better ways...like if Walther just removed said system.
But what have you contributed to the PPS? Um just encase you can't count..zip nada...nothing.

 

[tommtomaso]

Wow..you are reckless ..lol...it's good to know rust doesn't show after a long duration of inspection.
..still would like someone with the limbsaver to try a cooked backstrap...that would say something.
Because this is my EDC piece ....and I would want to know that if I suggest the wrap as a protection from a POSSIBLE failure point...I'd like to know it works in the worse case senerio.

 

[tommtomaso]

Forgive my tone, but at least I can keep it clean. Yes, congrats on your "huge" pair.

If you read back, friend, you cast the first insult; in a later post painting it under the auspice of being lighthearted or poking fun. So you have received it in kind, but in a more gentlemanlike manner.

Anyway, like I said, submit your fix to Walther. I think everyone, regardless of what they say back, would be interested in what they say regarding your contribution to the PPS. Yes, I've read your guide to completing the modification, I've looked at the pictures. In fact, I told you I did in the first place. What feedback would you like from me that I already have not provided...?

Have you heard the word " constuctive"?