[Würfelspiel]

Hi, the grips are the polyamide 6 grips, these are the type 1 with the mould sprue on the inner surface of the RHS grip, these do not have any company codes and seen on late Mauser and to a lesser number Walther P38's. As for the initials I have no idea apart from some previous owner/s scribbling! With the Eagle/140 proofed frame, denoting that it has a frame manufactured at the Browning factory, FN P38's (which are hard to find) making this an AC44 pistol. A teardown, as you suggest, would be interesting to see if the S/No's are consistent to the internal parts.

All matching as I have checked.

 

[Würfelspiel]

Nick, Good catch on that being a fairly rare Fabrique Nationale frame!
OP, that looks like a really nice example.

I would be very gentle cleaning the frame, that plum finish is fragile. If it still has strong finish on the front of the grip frame that is unusual and worth carefully preserving I don't have any solid statistics but I've seen, handled, or owned several of these H block AC44 E/140 frames that had the Otto Single Type I grips So I'd consider them A-OK for that gun.
Maybe two brothers, or his and hers initials?

I would not use Hoppe's on the frame in particular, just the Ballistol and a soft cloth (personally I like the G96 gun treatment CLP but Ballistol is good stuff).


^^ As an aside, someone on another forum had an issue with Hoppe's destroying the blued finish on a 3rd gen Colt after inadvertently leaving it soak for several weeks... granted that isn't a good thing regardless The Hoppe's representative told him in no uncertain terms it's only meant as a bore cleaner, not for use on bluing. That was a new one on me! I think the formula has changed significantly over the years... "not my Grandfather's Hoppe's" LOL. I left an early Zero series slide in a Hoppe's bath for an hour or so and it clouded the finish, but I can't "prove" it was caused by the Hoppe's. So I steer away from it now other than quick wipe of internal parts or cleaning bores. No more soaking... nor leaving it on a surface... just to be on the safe side. Your mileage may vary...

Yes I knew it was a FN frame as per the listing and proof marking. The internals had rust and I have cleaned it away for the most part. Whoever had it before shot this firearm in my opinion and per the paper towel picture and just cleaning it I can see the remnants. The finish is quite strong and isn’t worn. I hate to say I don’t prefer the plum finish as others do but the collectibility is what I purchased.

That being said, Hoppes will not damage bluing. The chemical process for removing bluing isn’t by using the type of solvents that Hoppes uses. Especially not the formulation today. It’s kinda funny how some folks say Hoppes was stronger back in the day than now. I think it’s just conjecture.

Bluing is FE304, a rust by product of the bluing process. Most people don’t realize bluing is literally rusting your metal to prevent other types of rust from occupying the surface.

Rust is FE203 which is a byproduct of the reaction of oxidation as we all know. They actually will rust bridges and other large structures as a way to prevent damage and cut down maintenance costs.

The same solvent that can remove rust, cannot remove bluing. It’s like salt can make something salty, but it can’t make something spicy; you need pepper for that.

Soaking anything is a dice game. Hoppes likely had penetrated the pores of the metal. As it has oil as a base it likely dulled the finish. Once you strip Hoppes from the pores of the metal you’d likely have nothing to see but the clean metal.

Some folks use non-chlorinated brake cleaner. Some pay extra for the same thing in a can that says gun on it. Go figure. Whether or not you want to use that on your prized possession is up to the owner. Personally it is used by myself in only the most pernicious instances; and I use it for my carry gun. I don’t hold it for collectibility and I am more concerned with safety if gunk is left behind after the solvent stripping cleaning process.

Most people wipe Hoppes or some solvent down, and move on to put it all back while adding a lubricant. First, you are not able to wipe the grime off and get it all. Then, if you mix a solvent and oil together you will do many things you aren’t trying to achieve. You’ll cut down the viscosity of the oil which in turn ruins the Friction coefficient for said lubricant. You also can cause a reaction where the solvent gums up in contact with the oil, which is a safety concern if you rely on the action of the pistol. Along with other things it’s better to strip the dirt with a solvent, remove everything from the metal with brake cleaner, and protect and lubricate with an oil. Minimal oil of course for carry guns.

 

[Würfelspiel]

Nick, Good catch on that being a fairly rare Fabrique Nationale frame!
OP, that looks like a really nice example.

I would be very gentle cleaning the frame, that plum finish is fragile. If it still has strong finish on the front of the grip frame that is unusual and worth carefully preserving I don't have any solid statistics but I've seen, handled, or owned several of these H block AC44 E/140 frames that had the Otto Single Type I grips So I'd consider them A-OK for that gun.
Maybe two brothers, or his and hers initials?

I would not use Hoppe's on the frame in particular, just the Ballistol and a soft cloth (personally I like the G96 gun treatment CLP but Ballistol is good stuff).


^^ As an aside, someone on another forum had an issue with Hoppe's destroying the blued finish on a 3rd gen Colt after inadvertently leaving it soak for several weeks... granted that isn't a good thing regardless The Hoppe's representative told him in no uncertain terms it's only meant as a bore cleaner, not for use on bluing. That was a new one on me! I think the formula has changed significantly over the years... "not my Grandfather's Hoppe's" LOL. I left an early Zero series slide in a Hoppe's bath for an hour or so and it clouded the finish, but I can't "prove" it was caused by the Hoppe's. So I steer away from it now other than quick wipe of internal parts or cleaning bores. No more soaking... nor leaving it on a surface... just to be on the safe side. Your mileage may vary...

Also I didn’t refute you or try to argue. I’m just saying what I know to be the case. I appreciate you sharing. Please don’t take it the wrong way.

I think the guy you mentioned either did something else or isn’t being forthright. Hoppes recommends it for blued guns as they advertise it won’t harm the finish and instead accentuate it. Hoppes will do that and it doesn’t look bad. But I don’t like leaving solvents on my stuff. It’s akin to leaving soap on skin. Soap is wonderful, it can also cause issues if you have it all the time. Similarly lotion is great, but using that too much isn’t good either. Moderation etc blah blah blah.

Also bluing can be worn off. So overzealous cleaning over and over like the kind that makes you want to soak it in Hoppes for weeks likely isn’t the product as much as the human. He could be over the top and caused the issue with being so persistent in cleaning. A gun gets clean and that’s it. You won’t make a new gun from rubbing the one you have. Although… as I say that… hmmm 😁

And if he forgot it in the vat of Hoppes, well, the same logic applies.

 

[Würfelspiel]

No worries, I didn't take your comments to be argumentative at all, just informative. My own personal experience is that the Hoppe's did seem to affect the high-polish finish and it did not make me happy. But as I said, "your mileage may vary" LOL.

I do like your pistol. The ones I've run across are almost always worn on the grip strap. I have a special affinity to P.38's with FN parts for some reason.

Anyway, for these WW2 Walthers with plum-finish frames, I wouldn't put anything on them except oil. It's a very thin finish and not the typical bluing, it didn't penetrate very well. Maybe wiping with Hoppe's or other solvents won't hurt it, but... why chance it. That finish is an acquired taste, I originally thought it was just a sign of a poor bluing job, but in context it's pretty interesting and makes for a nice contrast.

Gratuitous pic of one of my favorites that changed my mind about it, a mint late-war Mod P38 - many in this S/N range are plum to some extent. Poor temperature control, incorrect solution mix, etc. It's REALLY plum, the pic doesn't do it justice. The slide is like flip-flop paint, it changes color depending on lighting and view angle.
View attachment 119067

Not often the bluing matches the brownish Bakelite haha. The plumb is growing on me. The blue or purple haha is strong on this one. Usually blues can give signs of their brittleness but I didn’t see it. Now the handle is worn and in the white to a degree. i like her and it’s a bonus that it has more rarity than most.

I guess you could say I’m plum crazy for Walthers now. 😉

Picked up the PP recently and man oh MAN do I love the sleek smooth design. Such a beautiful gun. I wish it was 9mm. But I suppose life needs imperfections.

That being said not sure what Walther I want next.