The PP series is a little bit ammo sensitive. And not every gun is compareable to another. I got the best results using Fiocchi and S&B FMJ. No experiance with American Eagle ammo.

 

What Martin said. From what I understand, U.S. made .32 ACP tends to be a little watered down compared to original .32 ACP specs so that it could feed and function more reliably in pocket pistols like the Seecamp .32. It was originally developed by Browning for European arms manufacturers (FN I think was the first to use this round). Fiocchi and S&B are made in Europe so they are likely to be manufactured to original spec, so they are slightly hotter. I think this is why so many people have feeding/reliability issues when they use other brands of ammo in their pistols that seem to go away when they switch to these two brands.

Just my $.02

 

Lots of threads right now on feeding issues.

Start by cleaning your magazine(s), don't use screwdrivers to pry cartridges in the action. If you must pry and jiggle, use somthing like a chop stick.

Be safe!

 

Good tip! Thanks 153.

 

W-W is the headstamp for Winchester-Western.

 

Hi Jellis, You sound exactly like me saying the same thing I said coming to he the WF site w/(you guessed it) Federal American Eagle ammo. Mine is a 1940 PP. It's feed ramp was in terrible condition, and it's springset was probably original. It had worn parts too. A springset from Wolff made the PP 95% reliable with feeding after the ramp had been cleaned up. The 5% failure was a parts condition (probably) as my extractor was worn, and hammer needing an overall. The gun now has a Walther springset in it after the before aforementioned part/overall work. I'm expecting great things at the range next time which I'll report on. In the end, I want to be able to use the Federal ammo which is good stuff, available, and clean running. Good luck with your PP!

 

I'm expecting great things at the range next time which I'll report on. In the end, I want to be able to use the Federal ammo which is good stuff, available, and clean running. Good luck with your PP!

Thanks for post, Terracin. I look forward to hearing your results at the range. I too want to use the Federal ammo since I spent $124 for it and it is non-returnable.
jellis00

 

By the way, is this issue happening when firing or are you hand cycling?

 

It is when hand cycling. Does that make any difference? I presumed if it fails-to-feed on hand cycling it would also fail-to-feed during live firing.
Haven't been to the range with it yet. Was planning on range time next week, but if all my ammo fails-to-feed now I'm not going to pay for range time to find out it jams all the time. So need to solve this so my gun will feed Federal or sell the federal and wait until I can buy some Fiochii. I am taking the handgun to a gunsmith tomorrow who is going to try to figure out why the gun fails-to-feed on this ammo...magazine?, gun?, or ammo? Will post results of gunsmith assessment on Saturday.

 

Also, as I have said repeatedly in other threads. American Eagle is garbage ammo. I will NOT buy it even if it is the only ammo on the shelf. Others here have had issues with it as well.

 

I agree with Sharwnthla. If you do a search, you will see all the issues discussed.

 

Between "American Eagle" and that "Poor Man's Cartridge" ~stuff~ we're not sure which is worse.

Both require extensive cleaning of the weapon after a range visit. Coal dust and lumpy white residue are a certain by-product of firing either.

YUCK!!!

 

Agreed. That being said I've never had issues with PMC in 9mm in my guns, but boy is it dirty!

 

I wish I knew what has possessed the Federal Cartridge Co. in the last few years. I'm beginning to think it's been acquired by Umarex.

There was a time when it was the Gold Standard of U.S. made ammo. Nobody made better or more consistent ammunition. When chronoed it would be spot-on the SAAMI spec, with very low extreme spread. It's still very uniform --but the consistency is now notably that of being uniformly under-loaded. Their American Eagle in 9mm Para is so anaemic it barely makes it out the ejection port, and the .22LR is hopeless in semi-autos like the Walther PP; short recoil stoppages are the norm.

M

 

On second thought, American Eagle has its uses: the 9mm 115 and 124 grain might be ideal target fodder for older pistols that were made before the manufacturers standardized recoil spring assemblies to handle the super-bat zombie loads: wartime and early postwar P38s; Colt LW Commanders; early S&Ws like the 39/59 series, especially the compact versions with light slides; and any other small 9mm that you don't want to beat up with excessive slide velocity. You just gotta try it and see.

The AE .22 LR can, of course, be used in any bolt-action rifle that doesn't need the energy and can't tell the difference.

M

 

Can we say: "This SUCKS!"

... mostly, yes.

 

aquila ammo

Good ammo is hard to find here in the peoples republic (massachusetts). I had some old aquila (made in mexico) .380 that i tried in my 1967 ppk and almost all of them jammed in one way or another, is this ammo crap?

 

Boy! Federal's American Eagle....

sure has touched a nerve.
So I thought I'd share Lucky Gunner has Fiocchi for sale as I type. 52 cents a round seems like a pretty good price at this point in time(?)
32 ACP Ammo - 73 gr FMJ - Fiocchi - 50 Rounds

 

sure has touched a nerve.
So I thought I'd share Lucky Gunner has Fiocchi for sale as I type. 52 cents a round seems like a pretty good price at this point in time(?)
32 ACP Ammo - 73 gr FMJ - Fiocchi - 50 Rounds

Thanks so much for that tip, Terracin. Just ordered 4 boxes in hopes that solves the fail-to-feed problem on my PP. Going to try to find someone who doesn't have a Walther to sell this crappy Federal American Eagle 32 ACP to them face-to-face here in Colorado/Wyoming area. If anyone reads this from there and is interested contact me by PM.

 

Still haven't heard the OP's response to the 'is it a problem handcycling or actually firing'.

My PP series .32s have been enormously tolerant of about anything I've fed them; the current load is a 75 gr RNL reload at 803 fps. This falls well short of factory load data that I've been able to locate (several sources cite mid-900s), and it still runs and feeds just fine; shoots straight, too.

Mike, concur on Federal ammo; perhaps its the CYA syndrome; they're letting the legal department dictate loads rather than the ballisticians. Their bulk .22 AutoMatch runs in some other autos, but not reliably in the Walther. I'm still fond of their primers, but of course they are hard to find right now.

Truly surprised to hear of feeding issues in the .32.
Moon

 

Mike, concur on Federal ammo; perhaps its the CYA syndrome; they're letting the legal department dictate loads rather than the ballisticians.
...
Moon

I really doubt that. Lawyers don't know squat about ballistics, let alone enough to dictate loads. Nobody including Federal seems to have any qualms about marketing self-defense ammo which is normally loaded to higher pressures than AE.

I suspect it's the bean-counters who are shaving every thousandth of a penny off the cost of a box of range-grade ammunition by trying to conserve propellant. In millions of rounds, it adds up.

M

FWIW: SAAMI standard for .32 ACP (71-grain FMJ) is 950 fps. Maximum product average pressure (measured by piezoelectric transducer) is 21,900 psi; maximum permissible individual pressure is 25,300. I don't believe it's changed in decades.

 

When I shot the American Eagle ammo I noticed that the burn was not consistent, most burned low, but some burned surprisingly hot. Some also were not the exact same length due to the bullet being a tiny smidge higher or lower in the case.

 

When I shot the American Eagle ammo I noticed that the burn was not consistent, most burned low, but some burned surprisingly hot. ...

How could you tell the temperature?

M

 

Mike, your extensive list went beyond what I would have expected.
I seem to recall reading that the ComBloc rounds/guns were reliable at least partially because of loose tolerances.
What continues to surprise me is difficulty in the .32; of all the PP series, it has been the most reliable in feed and function (in my personal experience and in most comments here) compared to its .22 and .380 brethren; it seems the most 'forgiving'.

For the OP: tell us a little more about exactly what is happening with your gun.
Moon

 

Mike, your extensive list went beyond what I would have expected.
I seem to recall reading that the ComBloc rounds/guns were reliable at least partially because of loose tolerances.
What continues to surprise me is difficulty in the .32; of all the PP series, it has been the most reliable in feed and function (in my personal experience and in most comments here) compared to its .22 and .380 brethren; it seems the most 'forgiving'.
...
Moon

The list was only what I could think of off the top of my head. The actual list of variables within any given caliber (and sometimes within the same box from the same manufacturer) is much greater.

I think the story about ComBloc rounds/guns is just loose terminology, not loose tolerances. Example: with loose tolerances a maximum cartridge in a minimum chamber becomes a distinct possibility and is begging for trouble when it gets dirty.

My observation is that Russian guns are very precisely made where they need to be. Noncritical areas may be left loose to give dirt some place to collect. Also the recoiling parts are deliberately overdesigned, with generous mass and overtravel, to provide substantial reserves of operating energy with consequent high reliability under adverse conditions.

As for .32 v. .380, relative reliability depends on the gun platform. If all else were equal (which it cannot be), a .380 will feed more dependably simply because it's rimless. Today no competent designer would put a semi-rim on any new cartridge intended for an autoloading firearm.

The .380 is less well-suited for many light blowback pistols like the PP-series Walthers for a bunch of other reasons, but in a locked-breech weapon the reverse might be true.

M

 

Concur and point taken on the .32 semi-rim. Before the advent of the KelTec P3AT and the LCP, .32 pocket guns were as good as it got. Rim lock was a dreaded occurrence with these little guns; careful loading of the magazine made a huge difference.
Oddly, in the PP platform, I've never experienced rim-lock, and often thought that the healthy recoil spring a blowback requires might have been stout enough to drive any rim-fouled round over the one below it.
The level of reliability of the locked-breech Ruger .380 borders on Glock-like; I've seen them digest all sorts of reloads, and we let our students in the NRA course try them...they just go bang every time.
So you are no doubt correct; given a locked breech, the .380 is the way to go.
I'm just charmed by the .32 in the PP; it's just so damned pleasant to shoot, and with my gun and ammo at least, entirely reliable....and, some bullet retention issues aside, there was no drama in finding a reload that worked.
Moon

 

I'm just charmed by the .32 in the PP; it's just so damned pleasant to shoot, and with my gun and ammo at least, entirely reliable...

That's the reason why the 7,65mm Browning rised up and used over such a long time in Europe. Some people may denigrate the cartridge because of it's "minor" power (no "new" discussion please...) and perhaps of it's semi rimed cartouche design, but it's pleasant to shoot and just unenlaborate.

In our special case: Fritz Walther did his very best in designing the PP series more than 80 years ago. Why are we still interesting in?

 

Off topic for a brief moment; do I recall that the .32 ACP will also function in some revolvers, due to the semi-rim?
Moon

 

Jellis, we have a three page discussion, and you're talking about handcycling? $&$^&%&$&^$$$$$$!!!!

Okay, try this. Pull the slide to the rear on an empty magazine, and let the slide stop lock it in place.
Fill your magazine, lock it in, and point the gun in a safe direction.
Pull the slide to the rear just enough to release the slide stop and let the slide slam forward. It won't hurt anything; it's what happens when you shoot.
If the slide goes into battery, well and good. If it takes a nudge of your hand to get the slide all the way forward, also good.
Clear the gun, and take it to the range, where you will load the first round the same way....and see how it actually runs on ammunition by firing it.
Handcycling proves virtually nothing; you will be hard pressed to cycle the slide as quickly and violently as the firing sequence does.
Remember, let that slide slam. Don't hold it back in any way.
Moon
ETA- We cross posted here...I'd actually try shooting the pistol before you pay a 'smith for his advice. The .32s usually aren't picky eaters.
Also, who made the 'aftermarket' mags? If they aren't MecGar or Walther marked, be suspicious. Look at CDNN for the MecGars, or Earl's Repair for (spendy) Walther marked ones; make sure you get .32s. Life is too damned short to screw with aftermarket mags.
M

 

Jellis, we have a three page discussion, and you're talking about handcycling? $&$^&%&$&^$$$$$$!!!!

Also, who made the 'aftermarket' mags? If they aren't MecGar or Walther marked, be suspicious...... Life is too damned short to screw with aftermarket mags.
M

Sorry about failing to identify as hand cycling. Didn't think it would make a difference and that FFT on hand cycling would indicate probable FFT on live firing.
I purchased the two magazines on e-Bay where they were advertised as PP 32 compatible and are factory new from MecGar mfgr.
They have a marking on them like a Large A superimposed on an M and indicate they are made in Italy. Does that confirm them as MecGars? If so, you are saying I shouldn't have any problems with FTF in my PP?

See 2 New 8RD Mags for Walther PP PPK s 32ACP Nickel Magazines Clips | eBay

 

Jellis, those are indeed 'MecGar' mags and actually are 'factory'; they make them for the Walther pistols.
You have several things going for you; a generally forgiving caliber and actual factory mags. We are assuming that the mags are indeed new and haven't been futzed with in any way.
Take it and shoot it before jumping to any more conclusions.
Have you tried chambering one of the problematic rounds the way I suggested? Don't ride the slide...
Good luck,
Moon

 

Take it and shoot it before jumping to any more conclusions.
Have you tried chambering one of the problematic rounds the way I suggested? Don't ride the slide...
Good luck,
Moon

After all these problems I am a little goosey about doing your test at home. I am going to wait till I get on the range to do so. Thanks for the test and I will post results after I get to the range.

 

Spooky situation; glad you got it resolved and actually diagnosed the problem. It also appears that you encountered at least one or two of the irregularities on Mike's extensive list.

I wouldn't paint with too broad a brush regarding American Eagle; I've had satisfactory results with some of their other ammo, and may have even used their .32s.

The take-away here is to follow up on something that doesn't feel right. Handcycling doesn't really show us much, but the fact that the slide wouldn't go completely in to battery with the cartridge correctly aligned and most of the way in is a red flag. For future use, the 'smith's technique of hand feeding a round with the slide removed is a good one.
You might do well to try that with some of your new ammo when it arrives.
Now, that said, violently cycling the slide remains the correct way to chamber a round in any auto; unhappily, in this case, it would have concealed the issue. How did the ejected case of the one fired round look? Any signs of excessive pressure?
Moon

 

How did the ejected case of the one fired round look? Any signs of excessive pressure?
Moon

Unfortunately, the smith didn't retrieve the ejected casing and inspect it, so can't answer the question.
Good idea to check all ammo purchased by removal of slide and manual insertion into chamber before attempting to use. I will remember to always do that.

 

It's not always an issue...until it is.
Moon

 

I had told my local gun shop that I would take some 32 if he got some in. After reading on this thread for the last few day the shells he got in was American Eagle. Only 5 boxes felt obligated so I took them. Ran 3 boxes. My S&W ppk/s no issues at all. My 1970 PP had a few failure to fires. Would not blame it on the ammo since same thing happened with Fiocchi. Only have a couple boxes left and I doubt if I will purchase any more unless it is all that's available. It is a dirty shooting ammo. Would rate it about like PMC.

 

My 1969 Police Trade Inn PP loves Fiocchi FMF and shoots Wolf Gold JHP. I love American Eagle for my 44 mag but for a PP I'd go with European manufactures.


Official Disclaimer: tcallre may or may not own any and all firearms discussed in the last few years on this or any forums. tcallre may or may not possess knowledge or opinions offered on this or any forums discussed the last few years. In fact tcallre may be nothing but a posing imposter trying to fool people into thinking he may be a gun guy but may be or not be a staunch supporter of current or future Glorious Leader.

 

I have a 1932 Walther PP .32 which I recently acquired. It had (until my first trip to the range) only been fired once in it's entire life. The gun and magazine are in 99.5% condition. The only wear mark is light bluing rub on one side rear ~3mm, from the slide's rearward travel (it's superficial). It is a 77XXXX serial number.

I started having feeding problems with it on it's third shooting (mind you the gun still has less than 50 rounds through it ever), and with a whole range of manufacturer's ammo (All American). The ammo included Federal, and Winchester Silver Tip JHP's, among others. It seems in my case that observing the hand-rack chambering of the round, that the ammo in the magazine is pointing slightly cocked nose down, preventing proper chambering as the ammo goes in at the wrong angle and hangs up on a side of the case. Since the magazine essentially is 'new' though 80 some years old, I'm not sure why this would be an issue. Springs only wear from use, not disuse. It may also be an ammunition dimension issue, or that may contribute to the other issue.

The gun fires perfectly normally on occasion and is brutally accurate. The malfunction can occur during firing, or when the slide is dropped on a loaded magazine. I do not buffer the slide drop and do not assist it. Also, I am not a 'limp wrist' shooter which can often cause misfiring of small caliber arms by absorbing recoil energy needed by the weapon.

I am using Wilson's Combat Lubricants, as they seem to be better than any others I've used, the majority of others being very (too) thin.

The magazine, though original to the gun, bears no Walther markings, but is otherwise exact. Also anomalous to the pistol is that there is no red dot painted in the 'fire' position circle from the factory.

I am thinking of getting a new modern magazine (probably from Mec-Gar, as Smith's version of the Walther is crap, and I'm sure they are making the magazines now) and seeing how that goes. I'll report back, but it'll be awhile due to severe lack of availability here in CA.

Hope some of this info is helpful.

 

justin, were your problems feeding primarily with hollow points?
Moon

 

Excellent question. I saw no mention of FMJ.

Meanwhile, disassembly of the magazine and scrubbing 80 years of dried oil off the follower might bear fruit.

M