Interesting vid.

 

So here's my follow-up.

I had the barrel and slide ported by MagNaPort. I have to say that MagNaPort is great. I sent them my barrel and slide; the pre-existing top slide ports need to be slightly enlarged to enable proper effect from the barrel ports. I shipped it out on a Thursday; got it back on my doorstep the following Wednesday, less than one week. Absolutely top notch customer service.

I ran about 300 rounds through the pistol yesterday. The barrel porting really works. Felt recoil is significantly reduced. Apart from being more comfortable to shoot, follow-up shots and quick firing were more accurate. Porting is definitely an effective modification.

I've been told by a friend of mine, a police officer who is a reliable source, that his training with a ported barrel caused night-blindness when shooting in the dark. There's a YouTube video by Jerry Miculek

where he demonstrates that flash blinding isn't an issue. Maybe the gun, the specific porting and/or the ammunition are variables that affect this but I won't be using my Q5 for defensive purposes so it shouldn't be an issue for me.

Overall, an effective modification.

 

But I'm still gonna get my barrel ported.

 

The amount of recoil reduction is linear to the how much lighter ones wallet has become.

 

The amount of recoil reduction is linear to the how much lighter ones wallet has become.

Now that's funny. Maybe the direct proportionality to recoil reduction and wallet lightness is illusory; nothing happens as one's wallet becomes lighter. What the heck, I'll save time and money by going out and buying a .22 cal target pistol with a silencer. Or a BB gun!

Can I be frank? There is so much BS on Internet forums. People will Justify anything they did because they have spent money on something and yet lack no actual data. Present company included sometimes 🙂

 

If porting and compensators have issues, where does the use of a recoil reduction system (steel guide rod and springs) come in? I haven't seen any research with empirical data on muzzle rise differences and felt recoil. Yesterday, I received and installed Springco's set-up, the one that comes with the white spring, so I have ordered a yellow spring (based in their recommendation). Haven't shot it yet.

Again, for accuracy and faster follow-up, would a recoil reduction system have the same 30 to 36 percent reduction in recoil?

 

I haven't seen any research with empirical data on muzzle rise differences and felt recoil.

That's because true objective data comparing recoil/muzzle rise with the commercial recoil reduction systems, ports, etc is not available. That subject was discussed and cussed ad nauseam 12-18 months ago with no data discovered. The subject becomes too personalized so any experimentation is up to the individual.

 

LOL, it's not even my pistol, so I don't have to like or defend it. I was just describing it.

 

I really don't know why exactly, I can try to find out.

 

Don't lose your balance yet, I should be more clear, ISRAELI Air marshals which is a branch of the Israeli Secret Service use the G19-C.

I misunderstood your comment in the last post.


That is interesting, and I'd like to know why they chose it. The vast majority of agency contract pistols, are not ported, and that includes pistols like the Glock 17/19 and Glock 22/23. They are available, and they cost about the same, but the vast majority of agencies still choose the non-ported pistol, as do the vast majority of civilians who carry the same models.


My question to you is, why? I've stated what I believe are the positives and negatives or ported pistols. I've only seen the positives on your side of the argument.

 

Don't lose your balance yet, I should be more clear, ISRAELI Air marshals which is a branch of the Israeli Secret Service use the G19-C.

And Like I said in a different post buy and use what ever makes you or anyone happy, I personally prefer my PPQ M2 over my G-19 which is a great gun which I trust 100% to do what it need to do when it counts.

 

As far as I know the G-19C is the Israeli secret service (not regular police) and the Air Marshals gun of choice. I'm sure every good gun was tested with an open check book...

If it's good enough for them it's more than good for me.

Where did you hear this?

The Air Marshals use the 357SIG caliber, so I doubt it is a Glock 19. Last I heard, they were using Sig P250 and then P239 pistols. I never heard anyone say they were ported.

As far as the Israelis, these are the people who carry with an unloaded chamber, and rack the slide during the draw. It costs no money to rack the slide before hand, but they choose to rack it during the draw. Just because it works for them, does not mean that it is the best way to do it.

The choice is yours, I'm only explaining why I made mine. How many people here would feel comfortable shooting a ported pistol in the same position as in the three pictures in my last post? How many people would feel comfortable doing so with no eye protection, while there is a person on the other end of the pistol threatening your life?

 

"As far as the Israelis, these are the people who carry with an unloaded chamber, and rack the slide during the draw. It costs no money to rack the slide before hand, but they choose to rack it during the draw. Just because it works for them, does not mean that it is the best way to do it".

No one said here or anywhere it's the only way.

I can tell you for a fact it works for THEM.

I'm not saying it will work for you or anyone else.

One of the ranges I go often,is also used by many Police and Military personal at daily bases (Swat teams,Navy,Home land security and many many other top professionals).
Once in a while the Israeli Secret service also rent the place, usually they cover the area with tarp.
I got to see them more than once, with me was one of the range officer that was part of President Bush senior detail, I can tell you that this guys draw rack and hit where it counts faster than you can even imagine.

 

As far as I know the G-19C is the Israeli secret service (not regular police) and the Air Marshals gun of choice. I'm sure every good gun was tested with an open check book...

If it's good enough for them it's more than good for me.

 

You can get a much bigger burn by holding a revolver wrong and frankly in a life or death situation certainly at close range, non of this will matter. You point gun....it go bang.

With semi-automatic pistols, you have a choice, and the cylinder gap of a revolver will not port gas directly upwards.

 

I have ported as well as compensated Q's. I shoot at an indoor range....I'm old and suffer from CSS, but I've never seen any flash from either one. I took a 5" 9mm compensated Q to one of our DFW Walther gatherings a year or so ago. No one mentioned anything about any muzzle flash, but they did mention how soft it shot.

Now, does a 9mm need to be compensated? Who cares.....sometimes I do many things just because I can.

 

I'm old and suffer from CSS, but I've never seen any flash from either one.

Based on a number of prior posts I assumed that would be your response.

 

The flash blindness issue has been mostly debunked.

I personally have shot one in the dark. ****, there is more flash coming from shooting a .357mag from a short barrel then you will ever get from a porter barrel.

You can get a much bigger burn by holding a revolver wrong and frankly in a life or death situation certainly at close range, non of this will matter. You point gun....it go bang.

 

Our trainers (who do err on the side of caution) do not recommend ported barrels on carry or defensive weapons and for many of the reasons balance mentioned.

While I do have my doubts about the "flash burn" as I've been injured in stress situations and did not notice until well after the incidents. The "flash blindness" is a deal killer for me as is the fact that our trainers and armorers are against the idea.

All that being said, one of our trainers has a ported barrel race gun and boy does that thing run!!! If I wanted to own a range toy I'd seriously consider a Q5 with a ported barrel.

 

The "flash blindness" is a deal killer for me as is the fact that our trainers and armorers are against the idea.

Then it's a good thing it's mostly imaginary. I really have to focus a lot to notice the extra flash when my wife shoots hers, and it's not noticeable when I shoot it.

 

Why would you not go with ported on a defensive firearm?

My biggest reason would be the hot gasses being redirected by the ports, and hitting me.

The issues with porting a barrel have often been cited as follows:

- Night blindness from glare (flame)

- Fouling of ports from dirt and debris

- increased noise back at the shooter

-decreased velocity

The first two have been proven to be wrong. The bottom two are true.

I didn't notice much in the way of blindness from the extra muzzle flash, shooting at an indoor range.

I did notice that the front sight got black after a few mags. This is proof enough for me.

It there was extra noise, I didn't notice it.

The ports on most factory ported Glock pistols only take away about 50fps with factory ammunition.

I have never read a single study or even an anecdote that porting a pistol saved a life or took a life. If you want to do it....do it. Use the gun anyway you want.

I've never heard of anyone winning or losing a gunfight because of the hot gasses escaping from the cylinder gap of a revolver, but it is strongly recommended that people not put their fingers there when firing one.

I invite everyone to look at this picture below, and tell me if this would concern you when firing this pistol close to your body or face. It is not unheard of for pistols to be fired in awkward positions during a defensive encounter. It is also not unheard of for jacket material to come off as the bullet passes the ports, having "corkscrews" shoot out of ports.

Unload a pistol and holster it. Then, pull the pistol out of the holster and keep it at waist level, pointing it as if you were going to shoot something directly in front of you. Now look down at the top of the slide, and ask yourself if you really want ports there redirecting gas directly to your face and eyes.


I'd gladly give up the 50fps for the extra controllability, but I'm not willing to burn myself, or worse, blind myself, in the event that I do get into a defensive shooting.

 

The gun is a 9mm Q5 Match. It's not really designed, intended or used for defensive purposes. The point of this exercise is to discuss systems to increase accuracy and improve the speed and accuracy of follow-up shots. When shooting a target. Still, anything that improves those two aspects of performance could only improve your chances in most SD scenarios. A drop of maybe 30 fps for a round traveling at 1,200 fps would still serve the purpose.

 

The issues with porting a barrel have often been cited as follows:

- Night blindness from glare (flame)

- Fouling of ports from dirt and debris

- increased noise back at the shooter

-decreased velocity

The first two have been proven to be wrong. The bottom two are true. Slowing the round down is a real issue though not by much. This could either make the round more or less lethal depending on circumstances.

My position has always been that in a SD situation, all you need is the ability to access a loaded firearm that you can point and it go bang....that’s it. Sights don’t matter. Porting doesn’t matter.

I have never read a single study or even an anecdote that porting a pistol saved a life or took a life. If you want to do it....do it. Use the gun anyway you want.

 

What is this pistol going to be used for?

Would this pistol ever be used for defensive purposes?

Obviously, compensators and ports redirect the hot gasses that normally come out of the muzzle. This is probably not something you would want on a defensive pistol, being that it isn't unheard of for defensive pistols to be used close to the body and face, and in awkward positions pointing in awkward directions.

 

From Glock's website: "The GLOCK 19C Gen4 is equipped with integral barrel ports which optimize performance during rapid firing allowing the shooter to get back on target quicker. Additional benefits are reduced muzzle flip and felt recoil."

Every website I have seen regarding porting says that it reduces felt recoil. I know you can't believe everything you read on the 'net but that doesn't mean that everything you read is wrong.

Shooting Times posted an article in 2015 on its test results comparing barrel porting to compensators. It concluded, "The compensator was a little more effective than the ports at reducing muzzle rise, but they were very similar. The Glock ported barrel had 30 percent less muzzle rise, while the Rowland compensator reduced muzzle rise by 36 percent." Here's the link:

Recoil Reduction: Ports vs. Compensator - Shooting Times

It must be noted that this study also found that barrel porting resulted in lower velocities while the compensator caused cycling malfunctions due to weaker slide movement. Of course that doesn't mean that any one individual compensator or porting on a specific gun will have identical results; there are too many other variables. And a compensator's cycling issue can probably be dealt with by using different recoil springs whereas reduced bullet velocity can be resolved with lighter grain ammo. But still, to me, a cycling malfunction - or even the potential for one - is way more devastating than reduced bullet velocity, particularly within the relatively shorter effective range of a handgun. Only Superman is faster than a speeding bullet, which I assume includes a reduced-velocity shot from a ported barrel.

For me, the purpose is to improve accuracy and follow-up speed. If the Shooting Times test is even close, a 30 to 36 percent reduction in muzzle rise is enough to convince me to do something. However, a six percent difference isn't enough to persuade me to live with an extra hunk of metal hanging on the end of my gun with the associated probability of cycling malfunctions, finding correct alternate springs, or paying the extra cost of a threaded 5" barrel.

This is entirely subjective, but I think I'm leaning toward porting. It just seems to be more efficient, even if slightly less effective. Once done, I'll check back and report my own personal results.

 

Interesting post. I look forward to hearing what you decide to do and how it works out. Please keep us posted.

 

I'm gonna say this: my wife's Glock 19C feels like I'm shooting my PPQ 22.

I've shot factory ported Glock pistols, which they call "compensated" for some reason.

It does make a noticeable difference in muzzle flip in my hands. I also noticed that the front sight dot got fouled a lot quicker than I would have expected it to. A few magazines was all it took for it to turn black, and that was with "clean" ammunition.

I would not go with a ported pistol for defensive purposes at all. If I did on a range or competition pistol, I'd probably go for an extended barrel that was ported ahead of the front sight, unless long strings of fire weren't a possibility.


What exactly is this pistol going to be used for?

 

I would not go with a ported pistol for defensive purposes at all.

I have never fired a ported firearm but based on numerous threads including this one they appear to offer faster recovery for follow-up shots. Why would you not go with ported on a defensive firearm?

 

I'm gonna say this: my wife's Glock 19C feels like I'm shooting my PPQ 22.

 

I am not sure ports make any difference on a 9mm. The only data I have seen indicates that porting makes a difference on mag rounds. Even the guys who do the porting when asked if it helps, they say “not really” but do it anyway because people ask for it.

Compensators do though seem to help with any caliber. I think it’s because it’s on the end of the barrel where is more leverage AND ADDS WEIGHT. Porting does not.

 

Understood. Thx.

 

Just to be clear, Jarvis makes the barrels and can do the threading. However, they send the barrels out to 'Mag-na-port' for the porting.

Personally, I can feel more recoil reduction with the compensator. But, if you don't like that big ole hunk hanging on the front of your pistol, you can go with the porting.