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Discussion Starter #1
Work-out for Self defense Pistols ?


How many of us go to the Range and just ?plink? with our self-defense pistols. This is great to practice trigger control, grip and stance ????. But not really a hard work-out for the pistols we are placing our lives on. So what I recommend is to occassionally see what your pistol is really made of ??.. and really push it to the limits and see how it performs. This occurs almost every Range lesson with my students, because the course of fire is very demanding. That is why I limit the use of weapons for firearms training to what I would call ?duty? weapons ? because using anything less might burn / or break them up.

What you will need is no less than 200 rounds ???. At least 4 ?proven? magazines.

While I am mentioning magazines ? keep in mind these are ?wear? items ? meaning they do wear out and need replacement. You should always keep a half dozen magazines that you have ?proven? - at the ready - for rotation in your daily CCW applications.

At the Range ????. You will shoot 2 positions 10 feet and 30 feet
Start off with 2 magazines loaded 6 rounds each -- firing as fast as you can pull the trigger at the target set at 10 feet away??? reload a new mag. and fire again.

Then move the target to 30 feet ??..and fire at a reasonable pace center mass 2 magazines 6 rounds each. [ there is a reason I build a ?motor memory? of shooting 6 rounds at a time and can explain in a later post ]

Then back to the 10 feet line ??and repeat the process over and over until all 200 rounds are gone. Do not rest between stations ???.. it should take around 20 minutes to complete this course of fire. Try to gauge your speed for that time limit. The gun will be HOT and it will have been pushed mechanically to its limits. Any heat related expansions problems will rear its ugly head. Any deficiencies in lubrication will be seen.

All hits to the target should have been good K-5 shots. At the short 10 foot line, my students are required to fire with the gun at their belt buckle and have 2 seconds to empty the 6 round magazine. You can use your sights, if you have not practiced this type of close combat firing.

It goes without saying the Walther should be able to handle this course of fire without a hiccup ????. And so should the shooter ?smile-

Good luck???.

JF.
 

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JF,
It has been too long since you have last been on these boards...for penance, you need to write three more shooting threads....:D
 

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JF,
for penance, you need to write three more shooting threads....:D

Oh I so agree......
I know I can trust my P99 .... I have put it through it's paces.....
also I know there isn't many guns as reliable as the P99....
I took another defensive handgun class on Sunday and took again the P99 (though I was tempted to take the P7M8)
Not much to report other than seeing a recoil rod of a SW .40 fall appart, a Kahr go bad and the instructor (Glock guy) after shooting my P99 having big eyes and big grin asking me how much one would be :D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Jake- That penance I can do :D


Uncut - You really do yourself proper taking all these classes ........ it not only gives you a chance to let the Walther P-99 Shine, but it sharpens your skills like no other form of "plinking" you could do at the Range.



Here is a method I have been trying to teach to some students - some of you might like to try. This is for self defense when confronted by an armed attacker and where deadly force is justified.

All of us try to reduce our pistol's recoil by one means or another, but I have learned to "use" the recoil - more specifically the muzzle flip - to my advantage.

Double taps - as fast as you can pull the trigger. Use your front sight as a guide only. Now here is what you want to work towards: Start with the gun pointed just above what might be the sturnum area on your paper target. 2 quick shots, the first should hit where you were aiming, the other will hit higher -caused by the muzzle flip. That second shot you want to hit the face area. The speed of your trigger squeeze will determine how high the second round will hit the target. If you have a good "hard hold" during rapid fire sequences, you may have to lighten your grip to allow for the "controlled" muzzle flip. Start off with 2 shots at medium speed and see where the second shot strikes. Because of varying grips, there are no set formula [that I have detected] for locating the second hit. So its trial and error. But you will quickly see the trend that you have with your pistol.

Now when you have the method down pat - you can strike a target in the chest and face with Blinding speed. Less than 1/2 second and you are done.
People will be amazed at how fast you were able to "aim" the second shot. The secret [trick] is the second shot goes were the muzzle flip takes it - you have just adjusted your trigger speed to make it hit in an appropriate spot.

It takes a lot of practice, with using the same cartridge........ as the recoil properties of the pistol become extremely important. But when you have perfected this method......it will become second nature to you and you will become super fast and very " effective". There are not 2 more devestating hits to a target then one in line with the shoulders [ center mass] and the face area. Remember - these are self-defense tactics ONLY

JF.
 

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I've only been shooting for about 6 weeks. All of it is at a range. I am averaging about 100 rounds a week. But since joining a private range I plan to begin increasing that. What should I be able to do before I begin to add defensive skills?

A beginners shooting progression tutorial would be nice.
 

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Interesting posts and especially since I am gearing up for a pistol / rifle two day course at Quantico next month and will be taking my P99 and leaving what I used to depend on, a G 34, at home.

The mention of taking a class with a HKP7M8 reminded me of trying to do this and it didn't work out. In fact, I even had a pair of the pistols and they were both too hot to use after a few magazines. Only a cooler of ice would have saved the situation, and I was fresh out. The next day I returned with a Browning High Power and chugged on through Old School style. I love the HK pistols but have to confess haven't really felt the same about them since that class.

Now, however, I am really anxious to put the Walther through its paces and have been practicing quite a bit on a plate rack, shooting on average of 500 rounds a week. The above exercise sounds really useful and I am going to print it out and take it with me to see what I can do.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Pitmaster -
What should I be able to do before I begin to add defensive skills?
A new shooter wants to :

Establish strong shooting fundamentals ? like a stable stance, a good grip and a good sight picture.

All of these MUST be built into what I call your ?motor memory? ??? and this means practicing over and over these skills until they become second nature.

An example: Start with your weapon lying on a bench in front of you ? unloaded. Magazine at the ready next to the pistol. At your signal, grab the weapon, load it and address the target. Now STOP and look at your stance, grip and sight picture ? they all should be ?perfect?. If not, you need to practice more ? before you even pull the trigger.
Most students will not have the proper sight picture. They will need to search for their sights and then the target. So they have to learn that bringing the weapon on target is like a ballet move ??? very distinctive actions must be taken in order to get it right. When you bring your weapon to eye level ? both front and rear sights should be in alignment ? automatically. This skill will help you immensely when you graduate to ?point shooting skills?, where you concentration will be directed only to your front sight and target.

Be careful: Motor memory can work against you in the form of ?bad habits?. So if you are practicing a skill over and over ? make sure every tiny movement is accurate. That?s where a shooting instructor earns his money ? he sees to it that no bad habits are allowed to enter the training sessions.

Under extreme stress your body will go into a sort of ?auto mode? This always happened to me when someone fired at me. You will rely more on motor memory skills than you will conscious decisions . That?s the big reason I preach training sessions that span 12 to 13 lessons to teach certain firearm skills ----- rather than jamming all that information into one weekend ( 2 day course ) . You just can?t build the proper motor memory skills in 2 days ???. So what is the student left with when the SHTF ??

I have really only scratched the surface ???.. but if you are able to search this forum?s threads ? you will find several shooting lessons that I wrote up. It would have been nice to ?sticky? them, but we have just recently changed the forum?s software package and I am not sure if that can be done?

JF.
 

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The mention of taking a class with a HKP7M8 reminded me of trying to do this and it didn't work out. In fact, I even had a pair of the pistols and they were both too hot to use after a few magazines. Only a cooler of ice would have saved the situation, and I was fresh out.
That's a good observation...I pray none of us are ever be is such a situation were our guns would get too hot...but it did remind me of times when shooting in Cowboy Action...a couple of guys had .44 Henry rifles. Neat guns...but all metal frames, no wooden foregrips...after a couple of fast stages out in the sun...the guys were borrowing other's rifles...their's were to hot to handle.

Another fine reason for shooting gloves and smokeless powder, eh?
 

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I want to add something here......
I agree with Sniper350 100%.... it's hard to drop bad habbits... and it takes 3000 correct repetitons to make a bad habbit go away....:eek:
which leads me to a important point .....
When you dry fire...... never dry fire at a fixed object in the house... never.... not the TV not the family picture not the coffee pot....
get a papertarget and tape it on cardboard (or just hang it on the wall) make sure your dryfire area either is pointing into a "safe" direction (not the neighbors appartment) or that you have something behind it that will stop a bullet. Keep the snapcaps (if you use them) in another room and not with your regular ammo.
And when you are done with the dry fire practice take the target down
 

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The mention of taking a class with a HKP7M8 reminded me of trying to do this and it didn't work out. In fact, I even had a pair of the pistols and they were both too hot to use after a few magazines. Only a cooler of ice would have saved the situation, and I was fresh out.
The reason I took the P99 again... also the 8 round mag sure isn't much help neither and the fact that it is not as easy to lock the slide back without a mag in the P7
however the P7 is one fine CCW ..... just not suitable to go after 10 guys at the same time :eek:
 

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I have really only scratched the surface ……….. but if you are able to search this forum’s threads – you will find several shooting lessons that I wrote up. It would have been nice to “sticky” them, but we have just recently changed the forum’s software package and I am not sure if that can be done?

JF.
I have kept a record of Sniper's past posts and put them all into one word doc. If you would like a copy for yourself...send my your email and I will forward them to you...

:D

PS. Those who receive this tell me and Sniper what you think, okay?
 

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I have kept a record of Sniper's past posts and put them all into one word doc. If you would like a copy for yourself...send my your email and I will forward them to you...

:D

PS. Those who receive this tell me and Sniper what you think, okay?
I’m new to the walther world, Just brought home a PPQ M2 SC After putting a couple hundred rounds through a rental at the range and falling in love with it. I would definitely love to read snipers posts as they seem like great tips. How do I send you my email?
 
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