[Jimmo952]

I'm kind of channeling my inner "balance" on this one. (Just kidding you balance, your posts are typically thought provoking).

Will a gun with the Expert trigger still be drop safe?

If so, how is Walther pulling that off?

I know the trigger is being marketing as a competition trigger but still, guns sometimes get dropped or banged around. It happens.

I'm sure Walther has thought about this but I'm curious as to how they will make this work.

There are some good gun mechanics on this forum. Perhaps they can shed some light on this.

 

[23738]

I wouldn't imagine Walther would make and sell a SAO gun without a drop safety. Just screams lawsuit when some knucklehead with more wallet than brains drops one, and maims or kills someone...

 

[olstyn]

In the other thread, someone speculated that it looked to be hinged at the top like a P99 trigger. When I looked at the picture, that appeared to be a plausible explanation. Like TBS302, I don't see them selling a non-drop-safe "factory" trigger, especially after the whole Sig P320 debacle.

 

[chandler5566]

Walther may not "design" a pistol that is not drop safe but they have designed pistols that were not drop safe......CCP and PPS.

 

[Jimmo952]

In the other thread, someone speculated that it looked to be hinged at the top like a P99 trigger. When I looked at the picture, that appeared to be a plausible explanation. Like TBS302, I don't see them selling a non-drop-safe "factory" trigger, especially after the whole Sig P320 debacle.

Common sense says Walther wouldn't put their name on a trigger that turns their gun into a lawsuit magnet.

It's not clear though, at least to me, how they are pulling that off in this case.

 

[balance]

In the other thread, someone speculated that it looked to be hinged at the top like a P99 trigger.

I'm not sure that's a hinge.

It looks like a two piece arrangement where the "curved" or "straight" triggers can be attached with just the removal and replacement of the allen head screw in the middle.

I hope I'm wrong, and I may very well be, but looking very closely at this video, I'm not seeing the trigger pivot. Take a close look at the first scene, and the clearance between those two pieces, and ask yourself if there is enough room between those two pieces for the bottom section to pivot.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Buy9gOMA1LY/

Also, this is said to work on both the steel and polymer framed pistols. If there is a tab on there that pivots out of the way, it must be very small. How well would this safety function on a polymer frame if a very small (tiny) metal tab were to impact it?

I'll wait until these start coming out on the market and some more details are shared before I condemn it, but so far, I'm not sure I like what I'm seeing. Walther may have achieved the same drop safety function using a different method, but I'm not sure that they did. The polymer triggers of striker fired pistols are lightweight for a very good reason, and they have those "trigger safeties" for a very good reason. Adding a trigger that (I assume) is heavier in weight, while lowering the trigger pull weight, and removing the drop safety, seems like a very bad idea from where I'm standing.

Hopefully I'm wrong. With the small amount of information I have in front of me, I'm not sure at the moment.

At the moment, I'll leave this with a, we'll see.




ETA: I finally have a request for a question to ask a Walther representative the next time one of you guys see one in person.

Ask them how they achieved a drop safe pistol with this trigger installed.

 

[chandler5566]

ETA: I finally have a request for a question to ask a Walther representative the next time one of you guys see one in person. Ask them how they achieved a drop safe pistol with this trigger installed.

I will see one this Friday but I am betting he doesn't have info on it....of course I could be mistaken!

 

[23738]

Maybe I'll post this query on the FB group and tag Brett in it...


You know which Brett I'm referring to.
I figure if anyone knows the details, he would.

 

[WaterDR]

They are not drop safe!

 

[23738]

Anything to support this?

 

[chandler5566]

Anything to support this?

Yes, at least at this time. The trigger does not have a trigger safety and that's why it is not available in the US.

 

[Jimmo952]

They are not drop safe!

Is that definitive? Yikes! That's a big deal.

 

[Slartybartfast]

Yes, at least at this time. The trigger does not have a trigger safety and that's why it is not available in the US.

Looking forward to see if I can get the trigger from Europe and shipped to Canada.

 

[WaterDR]

Anything to support this?

Yes...just look at it. No way it will be.

 

[olstyn]

Yes...just look at it. No way it will be.

Have you taken one apart to see how it works?

I guess it's not impossible that Walther could've decided that the safety plunger/firing pin block is good enough as a drop safety on its own, but you look at a couple of pictures which show only the externally visible parts and then come to the conclusion that there's no way there could be a drop safety included as a part of the mechanism? I don't think that's logically sound.

 

[Jimmo952]

Have you taken one apart to see how it works?

I guess it's not impossible that Walther could've decided that the safety plunger/firing pin block is good enough as a drop safety on its own, but you look at a couple of pictures which show only the externally visible parts and then come to the conclusion that there's no way there could be a drop safety included as a part of the mechanism? I don't think that's logically sound.

It's at least questionable which is why I started the post. There are many better gun mechanics than I on this forum.

It sure would be nice to hear from Walther on this topic. I don't believe the early promo videos of the Expert trigger mentioned anything about Europe only.

WaterDR may very well be correct but once again, it would be nice to hear from Walther on the topic. Given the seriousness of the topic and the competition focus of Walther these days, seems like they would want to weigh-in.

 

[chandler5566]

WaterDR may very well be correct but once again, it would be nice to hear from Walther on the topic. Given the seriousness of the topic and the competition focus of Walther these days, seems like they would want to weigh-in.

WaterDR is correct and note that I stated exactly the same thing and gave the reason for it....no trigger safety. That information was given to me by the Walther rep 10 days ago at the Walther Day event.

As for the reliance on the FPB only for drop safety I believe Balance covered that subject in another thread. The FPB functions as one drop safety in the event the contact between the sear and striker fails. However, if the trigger is jarred from the force of a fall and there is no trigger safety the pistol is likely to fire because the trigger bar is actuated and the FPB would be compressed.

 

[Jimmo952]

WaterDR is correct and note that I stated exactly the same thing and gave the reason for it....no trigger safety. That information was given to me by the Walther rep 10 days ago at the Walther Day event.

As for the reliance on the FPB only for drop safety I believe Balance covered that subject in another thread. The FPB functions as one drop safety in the event the contact between the sear and striker fails. However, if the trigger is jarred from the force of a fall and there is no trigger safety the pistol is likely to fire because the trigger bar is actuated and the FPB would be compressed.

Thx Chandler. I didn't not mean to dismiss your earlier post. Credit where credit is due.

This is disappointing but not entirely unexpected.

 

[balance]

The trigger does not have a trigger safety and that's why it is not available in the US.

So, they are fine with releasing pistols that are not drop safe in Europe?

Is this a prototype or the finalized product?

Disengaging the drop safety on the trigger (or completely leaving it out of the design) leaves you with a pistol that can fire when dropped and impacts the ground in a muzzle-up position, which is probably the most dangerous position it can be in as you are generally standing over the pistol if it is dropped anywhere around you, and like I said before, adding weight to the trigger itself, while lowering the trigger pull weight, seem like even worse ideas when you consider that the drop safety on the trigger is not there.

Hopefully Walther releases this trigger with a drop safety, or doesn't release it at all. These guys would be incredibly irresponsible to release it otherwise.

 

[WaterDR]

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2019/03/19/iwa-2019-walther-ppq-series-expert-drop-trigger-kit/