[halfmoonclip]

Having recently done a trigger job on a current production Smith revolver (a trigger pull that really wasn't awful from the factory), I had another look at the MIM parts they now use. They aren't the things of beauty that the old, forged parts were, but they work well with each other. They are also remarkably complex and hold tight tolerances.
Which makes me wonder, if Smith can make an old design revolver, with all its moving parts and machine work, why couldn't they (or anyone else, apparently) make a PP series?
the Brazilians, seem to be able to make a functioning 1911, arguably a more complex design; why the heck is the PP series a challenge?
Walther's heirs and assigns are struggling mightily trying to make a current PPK iteration mit German slide, with a gestation period at least as long as a beluga whale...just what is the problem?
I think I've touched on this in other threads, but thought to start one here in particular.
Thoughts? Wild guesses? Speculation?

Thanks,
Moon

 

[Kar98]

Same answer as the last 18 times this was asked. It's not the technical challenge but the German government being a bunch of dickwads that's the holdup here.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Kar, I understand the Krautish government is the problem here specifically; I'm asking in more general terms.
Some domestic outfit (Indian arms?) tried to make a stainless PPK at a lower price; it failed. Interarms finally got it figured out with their Rangers. S&W couldn't manage it, and tried to improve the design.
There is apparently demand for such a gun; what's so tough?
Moon

 

[Kar98]

Smith & Wesson didn't seem to have a problem making them, nor Interarms. Nor for that matter any of the companies that made guns "inspired" by the PPK.

 

[23738]

Then why in the hell doesn't Walther simply bring the production of the PPK over here, and create some jobs on this side of the pond?

Oh, right. Nobody wants to buy an American made Walther.

Nobody wants to build a PPK.

(I'd buy one, in a caliber other than .380)

I'd also build them, if I could get a grant to go to school to be a 'smith, AND Walther would do the part necessary to hire people with the skills needed to do it here. And don't say they don't have the room down there in Fort Smith. We've all google earth viewed the damned place. You could build a helicopter in the parking lot, ferchrist'ssake...

 

[BlitzPig]

It's because there is more money to be made by selling $75 to make injection molded Glocks at $500 than there is to sell a $500 to make antique, that in reality has a tiny market demand, at $750.

I love my early Walthers, but that is the truth, no matter how much it hurts us old timers to admit it.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Let's be clear here; S&W tried to make the PPK, and eventually made a successful gun. But if it had been a rousing success, they would still be making it. Umawrecks is still struggling to make job one. The older domestic copies were flops.
Yet Smith and Wesson is making modern iterations of its traditional revolvers, designs that go even further back than the PP series. They have plastic fantastiks as well, but their revos are still a sales success.
Everybody and his brother makes a 1911, with prices from $400 to $1500. A market saturated with polys and other 1911s still seems to absorb more, and even hidebound Colt will sell you one for $800.
If somebody (anybody) were to make a decent one (no, it won't be an old fashioned work of art; those are in short supply these days), there should be a market for it. It should be simpler to make than a 1911 or a revo...and cost less too. With cheap overseas talent or modern CNC machines. Even if it didn't have a Walther banner on it.
Moon


Moon

 

[Kar98]

You can buy Makarov and Bersas, to name just two which are direct copies of the PP series, if that's what you want.

 

[Jimbo80]

Blitz has it right. It's not that they can't make them, it's just not very profitable for them to do so. Today's market is looking for small, light, and cheap. While Walther fans can't get enough of them the general public isn't really interested enough.

 

[Jimmo952]

Let's be clear here; S&W tried to make the PPK, and eventually made a successful gun. But if it had been a rousing success, they would still be making it.

Moon

Once Smith and Walther parted ways from a business standpoint, I'm not sure Smith had a choice but to stop producing them.

Walther seems to have made a decision to try to grow stateside and calculated their odds were better on their own.

I do not think Walther expected the legal complications with the German government. My guess is it caught them by surprise.

Your point stands though. It will be interesting to see what this Fort Smith iteration brings. I don't expect they will have the fit and finish of the best examples but hopefully the dang things will actually work.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Actually, the consigenti here are more critical of the PP series strengths and weaknesses than the general public, and an astonishing number of that public could identify the PPK as the Bond gun.
One of my handgun students brought a Umawrecks .22 to class, and was almighty pleased with it, pot metal and horrible trigger and all, because it was a Walther.
I understand the marketing issue many have raised, and that may indeed be the whole issue, but it does seem to me that there would be a market.

I have no personal interest in a new PPK; the older ones scratch the itch just fine, and poly delights answer the defensive gun issue.
But it simply mystifies me that somebody can't crank them out at a low enough price to sell. We're not talking rocket surgery here.

Moon

 

[153]

I really like the PP series Walther pistols, one was my first handgun purchase. But in 2018 they are simply outdated. Along with the Sauer 38 and the Mauser HSC, they cannot compete with Glock and SIG pistols that are more powerful and reliable.

Just because James Bond carries one will not generate sales - especially if the gun comes with a $700 to $800 price. Modern Bond fans who want PPK's seem to be happy playing with resin copies or the Umarex .22 while they look for Goldfinger in their Mom's basement or attic.

As range guns the old Walther's are fun, but there are better choice for walking dark streets where you might actually need a pistol.

If given the choice between something like the new PPK and a resin toy, I'd take the toy.

 

[Jimbo80]

Just because James Bond carries one will not generate sales -.

Especially when you consider that the gun buyers of todays concept of JB 007 is Daniel Craig

 

[23738]

I've watched two Bond films. Octo*****, and Die Another Day. I don't want a PPK, UNLESS it's offered in .32


No desire for a .380. All that noise and whatnot for a wimpy-ass 9mm wannabe...

I remember the time I shot a somewhat ripe watermelon with the wife's bodyguard 380. Damn thing only went in about 3 inches, and expanded slightly. It was a Winchester PDX1 round, at roughly 5 feet.

I've not shot either the POS gun or the POS caliber since.
(my Hornady 124gr+p rounds expanded nicely and did major damage, from a gun not much bigger with less recoil and noise, btw)

 

[TheWatcher]

No desire for a .380. All that noise and whatnot for a wimpy-ass 9mm wannabe...

I remember the time I shot a somewhat ripe watermelon with the wife's bodyguard 380. Damn thing only went in about 3 inches, and expanded slightly. It was a Winchester PDX1 round, at roughly 5 feet.

Sounds like a bad load to me. I've seen .380 rounds pass through both sides of a refrigerator.

 

[23738]

Sounds like a bad load to me. I've seen .380 rounds pass through both sides of a refrigerator.

Now this is some **** that I want to see!

 

[TheWatcher]

Just as a quick demonstration for you. Granted this is a ball ammo test with target loads. Self defense loads powder pressures are higher and should yield the similar results.

https://youtu.be/YyO9e9En1m8

 

[WiseguyDS]

First I REALLY would like to see the PP and other classic styles return. That said...

I’m not as technical by any stretch as most of you are but I am a business guy and will tell you that when you’re a corporation striving to make the most profit you can for your owners (I.e. share holders) you do not very often get to create or recreate beautiful works of art unless you can demonstrably show a certain rate of return on your investment. The PP possibly can turn a profit but the amount of money needed to invest in to such a venture must pass muster with the board who probably aren’t whimsically in love with the design as many of us are. Rather, they are spreadsheet driven and anything that drives the stock price is what drives their ultimate decision. People shave inches off cardboard containers to (rightfully) squeeze every penny from the efficient machine of the corporation that they possibly can because they work for the shareholders and are committed to bring about the highest profit and stock price that they can. If SW wants to bring back the PP that bad, in all seriousness, whether you agree or not, they’d have to hire an Elon Musk leader who will drive that vision probably AFTER the company is taken private.

 

[halfmoonclip]

153, yours are the same arguments I offer when some here are hellbent to carry the PP series, and they make perfect sense. Hypocritical as it may be, I've no personal interest in a new PP.
My puzzlement, and the reason for the thread, is that Smith revos and 1911s aren't too much of a challenge; the PP series shouldn't be either...it must be marketing.
Thunderbird, the .380 is arguably at the low end of defensive calibers, tho' modern ammo has helped its performance. Its greatest attribute is chambering in relatively small guns that are easy to shoot (Glock 42) and some that are really small and challenging (LCP). Going a little bigger will jump you to a small nine that will be a little harder to hide, and harder to shoot. Follow this reasoning to its logical conclusion will lead to walking around with a slung carbine...whatever its other merits, it will get you to the front of the line at WalMart.
Thanks for all the thoughtful responses,
Moon

 

[Ruload]

I hope they materialize, I hope the quality is there (even if there are sharp edges), unfortunately even if both of those are the case, it will be some time before I can justify buying one. I'm in the market for a small carry piece (I know myself well enough to know I'll leave a larger gun at home), but I could buy a smaller, more reliable .380 for less than half the price, or a nearly identically sized 9mm for slightly more than half the price.



Among the biggest draws of the PPK to me is the diminutive size combined with the DA/SA. I have a strong preference for DA/SA and a steel frame, but not enough (with my disposable income), to spend twice as much on a pistol that may be unpleasant to shoot.


If they materialize, and are of good quality, I'll find a way to get one. However, even if they showed up tomorrow, it would still be a couple years before I would bother, and it would likely never become the primary carry piece.