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Uber, I love your collection pics, esp. those P-5s.

So Gremanm but also so Dutch,,jsut like me.

When I was in contact with the Politie, they all carried the P-5
pistol., and it was very popular in S.Africa as a undercover arm.

I've hadPPQ andPPK/s pistols, but have never, ever fired a real deal
P-38.

MY favorite Walther airsoft was the Legend PPKs and rapidly replaced by the
Legend P--38/

35 years wit all kinds of CZs, and I find the P-38 to be one of the best feeling handguns in my life.

I would still like afford a PP from NRW or a wartime one in .32 ACP.

Then there is the P-5, P-5 Compact... and also the P88 and P-88 Compact.
 

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PP, P5, P5 Compact, P88, and P88 Compact........yessir, you have your priorities in life squared away, and you almost have all of them in the right order ;)
 

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PP, P5, P5 Compact, P88, and P88 Compact........yessir, you have your priorities in life squared away, and you almost have all of them in the right order ;)

One omission in his post, the P5 Lang. All the P38/P5 goodness, with the addition of a 6" barrel/long sight radius inherent accuracy. Make the P5 a tack driver.
 

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I find it interesting that the P38 still has a following. When the P1 was the standard pistol in the German Bundeswehr, most soldiers shot it poorly and complained about the gun. The sergeant's standard answer was " when someone cannot shoot, he blames it on the gun, if he can't swim , it's the swimwear". The average scores with the P8, basically an HK USP version, was quite a bit better for the common soldier, for the top shots it made little to no difference. This was particularly obvious in reserve matches that for years used the P1 and P8.

In the try outs in the 1980s between the P5, P7/PSP, and the P6 the cops that participated all preferred the P5 - and not just by a small margin.
 

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............In the try outs in the 1980s between the P5, P7/PSP, and the P6 the cops that participated all preferred the P5 - and not just by a small margin.

Yet overall production #s of the P5/P6/P7 show the bean counters won in the end.


Most German officers were issued P6s, the least expensive.


The least produced/issued was the P7, the most expensive.
 

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Yet overall production #s of the P5/P6/P7 show the bean counters won in the end.


Most German officers were issued P6s, the least expensive.


The least produced/issued was the P7, the most expensive.
And the P7 was quickly abandoned by the only German law enforcement agency that cared about firearms and shooting; the BGS. The GSG 9 dropped the P7 after house clearing drills.
 

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I find it interesting that the P38 still has a following.
The P38 is more common, cheaper, was produced in more variants, and has a more interesting service history. It also has a more distinctive look to it. The P5 may have a better DA trigger but in SA I still prefer my P38's.

When the P1 was the standard pistol in the German Bundeswehr, most soldiers shot it poorly and complained about the gun.
Sounds just like the GI's who shot worn out 1911's and M9's.
 

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....

Sounds just like the GI's who shot worn out 1911's and M9's.
We all shot the same three guns and I vividly remember the last time that I shot the P1 in the reserve, two older guys tied for first place with 99 out of 100 and some had around 20 rings. It's usually not the gun that is to be blamed.

By the way, the distance was officially reduced from 25 to 20 meters after some moron had overshot the concrete blinds.
 

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Cost with the P7 has always mystified me; with its gas retardation system should be simpler to make; just a gas retarded blowback. 'PzGren, presume the squeeze cocker was the issue, time between 'squeeze and shoot'?
The P38/P1 don't have the charisma of, say, the Luger or even the 1911. No one else has tried to make one.
Moon
 

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As recently shown in tragic events in Munich, the time between squeeze and shoot is negligible, even for the inexperienced user. Some guy grabbed a p7 from a cop's holster and shot another one in the face before anybody could even react.
 

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Believable enough; wonder what the issue was in the shoot-house testing?
Moon

The sound of the decocker (when going from pistol to rifle) gave away the location of officers.


A non-issue for those who choose a P7 for personal/home defense.
 

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Believable enough; wonder what the issue was in the shoot-house testing?
Moon
It was the sound of the cocking mechanism giving the positions away, as DUA wrote but it was also feared that in the heat of the moment, the squeezing might cause the trigger finder to move, too.

The HK P7 and P9S were not cheap to manufacture and very well made guns. I had a P9S that was a former BGS gun and it was among the most accurate handguns I ever owned but I gave it to a good friend. The BGS received batches of guns that they tested for accuracy, keeping only the most accurate ones and sending the rest to other agencies or returning them to the factory.

I have found another P9S with BGS acceptance marks and a P9S Sport and the prices on the P9S are still reasonable for such an accurate, yet awkward to cock, pistol.
 

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On the topic of HK manufacture costs.


When the USP was entering production, one ENTIRE USP gun cost less to produce then a P7 slide (pre-assembly). Any wonder why the P7 was discontinued?


I had several conversations with the seller of my "safe deposit box" P7 (owned over 400 HKs at one point, the NIB bank P7 was his last HK).


He has a good friend who worked for HK during the P7 and USP design/development/production, and mentioned that cost info tidbit to him.
 

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Really the same reason why the C96 and the P08 have way to the P.38, and even so Mauser had to be browbeaten into manufacturing the latter since they had JUST converted from making the 96 to making the 08.
And why the 1911 is still being made more than a hundred years later.
 
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