Now I own my P5C since two weeks and while the last 4 drive hunts I still carried my CZ P07 loaded with 9mm Luger Geco action extreme. That's the same cartridge as the Norma MHP, it has only another name in Europe (Geco is since some years parent of Norma). Fortunately I hadn't to use the CZ P07 while these hunts
Loaded in the CZ P07 I've made a very good experience with the Geco action extreme (Norma MHP). In summer this year it was necessary to kill a wounded boar with a kill shot - one shot with the Geco action extreme from a distance of 3 meters on the neck of the boar and "all was over".
Until now I hadn't the time to test my P5C on the range with the Geco action extreme - it's the time of drive hunts in Germany and the family, the house and the garden need always some attention as well.
Here on the forum are several owners of a P5C and I would like to hear about their experiences and their recommendations for a suitable ammo using the P5C as kill shot pistol.
Basically, any good ammo for self-defense is also a good ammo for the kill shot at a boar or deer.
Do you have experiences with the Geco action extreme (Norma MHP) in the P5C?
I've read in some comments and reports about the P5C and her sister P5, that they have sometimes problems with truncated cone- headed bullets.
What's about the Hornady critical duty or critical defense 9mm Luger? Their bullets have a similar contour like a truncated cone headed bullet.
Of course all experiences and recommendations concerning other kinds of 9mm Luger in the P5C are appreciated as well.
BTW I expressly exclude FMJ bullets. Their penetration capability is too high for my purpose and by that such ammunition endangers too much the environment in the case of a kill shot.
But maybe I should ask it more explixitly:
Which jhp ammo or similar ammo is expressly not suitable for the P5C, especially because of jamming while feeding a new cartridge?
My P5 and P5c are not picky at all about loads, bullet weight or type, etc. I have never had a FTF or FTE with any ammunition.
In general, Americans tend not to hunt deer with handguns, and in some states it isn’t allowed. Wild boar or feral hogs are hunted on occasion with handguns, although long guns are more typical. In both cases, 9 mm is at the low end of a round suitable for killing either animal reliably, especially out of typical handgun barrel lengths. Even fairly close, deer are a bit large to ensure one-shot kills and boar/hogs have a tough hide, limiting penetration.
I have shot deer with the 9mm and it is more than adequate for one shot kills and ditto for pigs as well. I have had the .45acp fail to penetrate more than any 9mm I have ever used. I recommend the 125 grain or heavier expanding bullets bullets. As with any firearm including rifles shot placement is critical. I have had deer run away when shot with .12 gauge shot guns and hit more than once whose projectile is around .727 caliber.
My own Walther P5 is well throat-ed and far better throat-ed than most American made 9mm hand guns. It has never failed to feed anything I put through it. I do recommend you do two things. One is make sure your ammo will feed before relying on it not to jam and also running your own expansion tests on it. I have seen the same bullet tested by different people in different handguns and they often got opposite results as far as expansion, some getting none, some getting average expansion an some getting super expansion. So do not rely on someone else's tests as they may not be valid out of your handgun.
Gmork will answer for himself, but I believe by "kill shot" he means a "Gnadenstoß" or "Coup de grace" or more commonly in a hunting context, a "finishing shot."
Exactly.
Thank you for that clarification.
The original German term/word is "Fangschuss". It means the shot, which kills an animal finally - an animal, which was only wounded by a first shot from a rifle or by an accident with a car.
Of course I didn't know the English word for "Fangschuss" and by using Google translate I got "kill shot" as English translation. So I used it in my thread. I apologize, if it wasn't an appropiate translation.
BTW One more example of the sometimes poor abilities of translation programs.
To enlighten an ignorant German: What do mean the abreviations FTF and FTE?
For further clarification: Hunting with handguns is strictly forbidden in Germany. Only for a Fangschuss/finishing shot it's allowed to use a handgun.
DE Pistole is correct about the ambiguity of using the acronyms FTF and FTE; none of the four have occurred with my P5 or P5 Compact. (I knew what I meant )
I read into Herr Mork’s question, of course he meant the kill shot. Apologies!
ou are not going to receive a reliable answer on the forum. I have searched the threads and there are reports that the P5 and P5c do not reliably cycle JHP. I have searched the Internet to find reports that say to does and others that say it does not. I think the only way you will know for certain is to test the ammo in your P5c.
I do not own a P5 or P5C. MY WALTHER IS A PPS M2. It has a 3.2 inch barrel and the P5c has a 3.5 inch barrel. JHP expansion from a short barrel under 4" is not certain. I have found an ammo for my PPS M2 that expands reliably from my PPS M2. It is Winchester JHP 9mm 147 grain Defend ammo. It feeds properly all the time. I do not know if it will do that in a P5c. But if it does, it will accomplish what you need.
The PPS M2 has a 81 mm barrel, ~ 3,2 inch as you write correctly.
The P5 has a 90 mm barrel, ~ 3,5 inch.
The P5C has a 79 mm barrel, ~ 3,1 inch.
That means, that the barrel lengths of your PPS M 2 and my P5C are even nearly the same ones, difference only 2mm, 0,1 inch.
Therefore it should be expected, that the Winchester JHP 9 mm 147 grains has the same effects in the P5C as in the PPS M2.
But at time the Winchester JHP 9mm 147 grs is not available anywhere in Germany
So I can't test it.
Nevertheless many thanks for your advice, I will remember it for the future.
We have a funny German saying used after long explanations : "Alle Klarheiten beseitigt." Literal translation: All clarities eliminated. LOL. Of course it's meant as the opposite, all listeners have understood - many thanks for all of your replies.
Admittedly I was a bit lazy to test by myself different ammo with my P5C on the range. Additionally I wanted to save money not buying a special kind of jhp ammo , if some of you advise already against the use of that ammo in the P5C because of FTF or FTE. (You see, I write FTF and FTE, I am still teachable. LOOL).
Now I plan this or next week to visit the range for testing three kinds of jhp rounds with the P5C, which work without any problems in my CZ P07:
Sellier & Bellot 115 grs jhp (Czech ammo)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 grs
Geco Action Extreme 108 grs (Norma MHP 108 gr)
I will report, if FTF or FTE did happen.
Surprisingly, this morning I found time to visit the shooting range to try different types of 9mm in the P5c.
1) Sellier & Bellot JHP 115 grs
2) Hornady Critical Duty 135 grs FlexLock
3) Geco Action Extreme 108 grs (Norma MHP is the same round in the USA)
4) Norma 114 grs Soft Pont Flat Nose - I own these rounds already since more than 20 years
I shot 16 shots with each cartridge type (2 magazines).
Result: No FTF or FTE at all.
Also the accuracy of every cartrige type was absolutely sufficient for finishing shots.
So I will use in future mainly the Hornady and the Geco for that purpose.
But I have a very little criticism of the P5c:
Comparing the SA trigger of my CZ P07 and of the P5c, the SA trigger of the P5c is bit more creeping. But that's not realy important for a finishing shot.
In conclusion, the P5c is an excellent pistol for my purposes as a hunter.
I don't regret at all having exchanged my 40 years old revolver S & W M 60 for the 30 years old P5c, quite the contrary.
Now I can always use the same caliber and cartridge type for my two handguns.
Never used my P5c on Hogs but I can say that mine has been flawless with a variety of SD hollow points. My carry round is 124 HST but I’ve also tested 124 Gold Dots and Hornady Critical Defense. Love my P5c as it has replaced G19 in my carry rotation.
BTW I expressly exclude FMJ bullets. Their penetration capability is too high for my purpose and by that such ammunition endangers too much the environment in the case of a kill shot.
Does Mr. himself come up with difficulties in order to overcome heroically?
Or are You planning to contact in a skirmish with many times the superior strength of the pigs? ;-)
P5 was originally designed for reliable operation with FMJ bullets. For sure making holes in a pig, FMJ bullets are optimal (due to the reason indicated by GeoNole94).
If You are afraid of victims among side pigs, just choose the right angle of fire. ;-)
By the way, this is always worth paying attention to, regardless of the type of weapon and bullet. Since, according to Murphy's law, a ricochet usually hits the target closest to it, that is, in Your case, the shooter.
I don't know, if you are a hunter as well.
At least it seems, you were never in the situation of a finishing shot because of your inappropriate and in some kind uninformed reply concerning this matter.
Be sure, this is my only reaction to your reply or any similar replies in the future.
Period
To shoot pigs on the hunt with a 9mm pistol, I had no case.
If the activity of the object allowed to approach for a confident pistol shot, I used a chamber insert for 22lr shooting under the ear. https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server...6/22_LR_1__22746.1412710809.1280.1280.JPG?c=2
And if the animal is still mobile, I prefer to spend one more rifle cartridge from a safe distance.
Well, of course, a Real Man should do this with a knife. ;-)
DUE ,I would pay good money to see you throttle a wild boar that was wounded or a deer either for that matter ,you must have humongous hands 😀. I do realize what you said was in jest .it has been my unfortunate duty to finish off two deer hit by cars a Critical Defense 147 grain jhp to the back of the head was instantaneous termination delivered from a Sig 938 . Didn't realize at the time magazine wasn't fully inserted and dropped free and I lost it when I drug the deer out of middle of road ,extended mag too . Ah well no good deed goes unpunished ,it was worth it for my wife's peace of mind ,she hit the deer and then ran over it's legs .,broke them all, pain must have been terrible . Ayb
DUE ,I would pay good money to see you throttle a wild boar that was wounded or a deer either for that matter ,you must have humongous hands 😀. I do realize what you said was in jest .............. Ayb
Many thanks for your reply.
I know the Critical Defense by reports about that ammunition in Germany. But at time it isn't available anywhere in Germany. Whether this special ammunition is offered somewhere, one learns only by chance, especially concerning the version with 147 grs.
That's also valid for the Hornady Critical Duty. A year ago, it was pure coincidence that I was able to buy 50 shots 9mm Critical Duty 135 grs.
Yes, that's allowed.
But as it is in Germany for nearly all things in connection with weapons, you have to apply an official permit for storing the gun powder. Before of that you have to join a course and prove that you store the powder in accordance with the mandatory regulations.
That was and is always way too elaborate and cumbersome for me.
You can get bullets without any permit.
If you try to visit with a knife or a spear a wounded wild boar, which regards a very dense, almost impenetrable scrub as its current most comfortable home, you will be pretty astonished about the active welcome greetings of the wild boar towards you. It will become difficult to avoid welcome kisses to your legs or to your body. Also a rifle isn't an appropiate gift avoiding quickly enough such kisses of a wounded wild boar in such home. During such visit the most appropiate gift for calming down the excited welcome greetings of the boar are a pistol or a revolver with some excellent chill pills in it. LOL
With this reply I end my participation in the threat, although I have started it.
I've gotten enough good advices for using my P5 compact with the appropriate ammunition for finishing shots.
Many thanks to all participants.
The question is initially incorrect.
Do You want a cartridge that is safe for people and dogs, but a wild boar is torn to pieces?
I doubt that this happens ...
One can generally identify what ammo will feed properly in a P5 (or in a P38 for that matter) by fully loading the magazine very carefully with 8 rounds. Do it with sensitive fingers, not a LulaLoader or somesuch. By the 7th or 8th round, if you feel the nose of the bullet of the bottom cartridge scrubbing the curved front wall of the magazine body, exercise the column up and down with a finger to see if "settling" the column makes the scrubbing go away. If it does not, and the scrubbing is still palpable, malfunctions are likely. The cause is that those particular cartridges have too long OAL, or the bullets are too square-nosed to fit inside the curve of the magazine without binding and are interrupting the smooth upward movement of the column each time the slide opens.
Also, when you finish loading the mag, the top cartridge may be in a nose-down attitude and not aligned with the angle of the magazine lips. Pressing down on the top cartridge and letting it snap up (which simulates what occurs every time the slide cycles) should cause it to pivot up under and parallel to the mag lips --in which attitude the bullet nose will be aimed at the chamber mouth. If it doesn't, there isn't enough magazine spring pressure: the mag is dirty or the spring is weak or incorrectly assembled. This forces the feed ramp to perform extra work lifting up the bullet nose, robbing the action of operating power.
It's not very helpful at all. "FTE" and "FTF" are practically useless. FTE might mean Failure to Eject, or Failure to Extract, which are quite different. FTF might mean Failure to Feed, or Failure to Fire, also quite different.
It's not very helpful at all. "FTE" and "FTF" are practically useless. FTE might mean Failure to Eject, or Failure to Extract, which are quite different. FTF might mean Failure to Feed, or Failure to Fire, also quite different.
I agree - in this particular case. The same member has enquired about various abbreviations which have cropped up in other threads. The ambiguity of the terms FTF and FTE is already recognised, which is why I qualified my recommendation by stating that the list “might” help.
It would, of course, be helpful to everyone if posters were less lazy in their typing and more specific in their descriptions of malfunctions. Abbreviations should generally only be used to avoid repetition in texts where the full terms have already been written.
Searches are also made more difficult by abbreviating. For example, if someone is searching for Delta Point Pro they will miss several texts where the poster has insisted on writing DPP.
People who are lazy and use abbreviations do not realize that many people reading their posts simply skip reading them when they see abbreviations in their reply's that they do not understand so they wasted their time even replying to a thread.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
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