Walther Forums banner

1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Now I own my P5C since two weeks and while the last 4 drive hunts I still carried my CZ P07 loaded with 9mm Luger Geco action extreme. That's the same cartridge as the Norma MHP, it has only another name in Europe (Geco is since some years parent of Norma). Fortunately I hadn't to use the CZ P07 while these hunts
Loaded in the CZ P07 I've made a very good experience with the Geco action extreme (Norma MHP). In summer this year it was necessary to kill a wounded boar with a kill shot - one shot with the Geco action extreme from a distance of 3 meters on the neck of the boar and "all was over".
Until now I hadn't the time to test my P5C on the range with the Geco action extreme - it's the time of drive hunts in Germany and the family, the house and the garden need always some attention as well.
Here on the forum are several owners of a P5C and I would like to hear about their experiences and their recommendations for a suitable ammo using the P5C as kill shot pistol.
Basically, any good ammo for self-defense is also a good ammo for the kill shot at a boar or deer.
Do you have experiences with the Geco action extreme (Norma MHP) in the P5C?
I've read in some comments and reports about the P5C and her sister P5, that they have sometimes problems with truncated cone- headed bullets.
What's about the Hornady critical duty or critical defense 9mm Luger? Their bullets have a similar contour like a truncated cone headed bullet.
Of course all experiences and recommendations concerning other kinds of 9mm Luger in the P5C are appreciated as well.
BTW I expressly exclude FMJ bullets. Their penetration capability is too high for my purpose and by that such ammunition endangers too much the environment in the case of a kill shot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
For a close range "Gnadenstoß" there won't be much difference between various rounds, except as you note as the risks associated with FMJ.

PS: I remember how well it was to spot them with snow on the ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your answer.

But maybe I should ask it more explixitly:
Which jhp ammo or similar ammo is expressly not suitable for the P5C, especially because of jamming while feeding a new cartridge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
My P5 and P5c are not picky at all about loads, bullet weight or type, etc. I have never had a FTF or FTE with any ammunition.

In general, Americans tend not to hunt deer with handguns, and in some states it isn’t allowed. Wild boar or feral hogs are hunted on occasion with handguns, although long guns are more typical. In both cases, 9 mm is at the low end of a round suitable for killing either animal reliably, especially out of typical handgun barrel lengths. Even fairly close, deer are a bit large to ensure one-shot kills and boar/hogs have a tough hide, limiting penetration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Gmork will answer for himself, but I believe by "kill shot" he means a "Gnadenstoß" or "Coup de grace" or more commonly in a hunting context, a "finishing shot."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Gmork will answer for himself, but I believe by "kill shot" he means a "Gnadenstoß" or "Coup de grace" or more commonly in a hunting context, a "finishing shot."
Exactly.
Thank you for that clarification.
The original German term/word is "Fangschuss". It means the shot, which kills an animal finally - an animal, which was only wounded by a first shot from a rifle or by an accident with a car.
Of course I didn't know the English word for "Fangschuss" and by using Google translate I got "kill shot" as English translation. So I used it in my thread. I apologize, if it wasn't an appropiate translation.
BTW One more example of the sometimes poor abilities of translation programs.

To enlighten an ignorant German: What do mean the abreviations FTF and FTE?

For further clarification: Hunting with handguns is strictly forbidden in Germany. Only for a Fangschuss/finishing shot it's allowed to use a handgun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Used by themselves, these abreviations can be misleading and their use often requires clarification . . .

FTF = "failure to feed" (into the chamber), or less commonly "failure to fire."

FTE = "failure to eject" or "failure to extract." These are two different types of failures. (an extracted casing might still fail to eject)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
DE Pistole is correct about the ambiguity of using the acronyms FTF and FTE; none of the four have occurred with my P5 or P5 Compact. (I knew what I meant ;))

I read into Herr Mork’s question, of course he meant the kill shot. Apologies!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
329 Posts
ou are not going to receive a reliable answer on the forum. I have searched the threads and there are reports that the P5 and P5c do not reliably cycle JHP. I have searched the Internet to find reports that say to does and others that say it does not. I think the only way you will know for certain is to test the ammo in your P5c.

I do not own a P5 or P5C. MY WALTHER IS A PPS M2. It has a 3.2 inch barrel and the P5c has a 3.5 inch barrel. JHP expansion from a short barrel under 4" is not certain. I have found an ammo for my PPS M2 that expands reliably from my PPS M2. It is Winchester JHP 9mm 147 grain Defend ammo. It feeds properly all the time. I do not know if it will do that in a P5c. But if it does, it will accomplish what you need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
We have a funny German saying used after long explanations : "Alle Klarheiten beseitigt." Literal translation: All clarities eliminated. LOL. Of course it's meant as the opposite, all listeners have understood - many thanks for all of your replies.
Admittedly I was a bit lazy to test by myself different ammo with my P5C on the range. Additionally I wanted to save money not buying a special kind of jhp ammo , if some of you advise already against the use of that ammo in the P5C because of FTF or FTE. (You see, I write FTF and FTE, I am still teachable. LOOL).
Now I plan this or next week to visit the range for testing three kinds of jhp rounds with the P5C, which work without any problems in my CZ P07:
Sellier & Bellot 115 grs jhp (Czech ammo)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 grs
Geco Action Extreme 108 grs (Norma MHP 108 gr)
I will report, if FTF or FTE did happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Additional remark

...
I do not own a P5 or P5C. MY WALTHER IS A PPS M2. It has a 3.2 inch barrel and the P5c has a 3.5 inch barrel.
...
Sorry, that's not completely right.

Therefore just for clarification:

The PPS M2 has a 81 mm barrel, ~ 3,2 inch as you write correctly.

The P5 has a 90 mm barrel, ~ 3,5 inch.

The P5C has a 79 mm barrel, ~ 3,1 inch.

That means, that the barrel lengths of your PPS M 2 and my P5C are even nearly the same ones, difference only 2mm, 0,1 inch.
Therefore it should be expected, that the Winchester JHP 9 mm 147 grains has the same effects in the P5C as in the PPS M2.
But at time the Winchester JHP 9mm 147 grs is not available anywhere in Germany
So I can't test it.
Nevertheless many thanks for your advice, I will remember it for the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Surprisingly, this morning I found time to visit the shooting range to try different types of 9mm in the P5c.
1) Sellier & Bellot JHP 115 grs
2) Hornady Critical Duty 135 grs FlexLock
3) Geco Action Extreme 108 grs (Norma MHP is the same round in the USA)
4) Norma 114 grs Soft Pont Flat Nose - I own these rounds already since more than 20 years
I shot 16 shots with each cartridge type (2 magazines).
Result: No FTF or FTE at all. :)
Also the accuracy of every cartrige type was absolutely sufficient for finishing shots. :)
So I will use in future mainly the Hornady and the Geco for that purpose.

But I have a very little criticism of the P5c:
Comparing the SA trigger of my CZ P07 and of the P5c, the SA trigger of the P5c is bit more creeping. But that's not realy important for a finishing shot.

In conclusion, the P5c is an excellent pistol for my purposes as a hunter.
I don't regret at all having exchanged my 40 years old revolver S & W M 60 for the 30 years old P5c, quite the contrary.
Now I can always use the same caliber and cartridge type for my two handguns.:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
329 Posts
Thank you for the final report about your testing. It will add valuable data to the information available on this website.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Never used my P5c on Hogs but I can say that mine has been flawless with a variety of SD hollow points. My carry round is 124 HST but I’ve also tested 124 Gold Dots and Hornady Critical Defense. Love my P5c as it has replaced G19 in my carry rotation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
BTW I expressly exclude FMJ bullets. Their penetration capability is too high for my purpose and by that such ammunition endangers too much the environment in the case of a kill shot.
Does Mr. himself come up with difficulties in order to overcome heroically?
Or are You planning to contact in a skirmish with many times the superior strength of the pigs? ;-)
P5 was originally designed for reliable operation with FMJ bullets. For sure making holes in a pig, FMJ bullets are optimal (due to the reason indicated by GeoNole94).

If You are afraid of victims among side pigs, just choose the right angle of fire. ;-)
By the way, this is always worth paying attention to, regardless of the type of weapon and bullet. Since, according to Murphy's law, a ricochet usually hits the target closest to it, that is, in Your case, the shooter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
@ ssivbreger

I don't know, if you are a hunter as well.
At least it seems, you were never in the situation of a finishing shot because of your inappropriate and in some kind uninformed reply concerning this matter.
Be sure, this is my only reaction to your reply or any similar replies in the future.
Period
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
My P5 and P5c are not picky at all about loads, bullet weight or type, etc. I have never had a FTF or FTE with any ammunition.

In general, Americans tend not to hunt deer with handguns, and in some states it isn’t allowed. Wild boar or feral hogs are hunted on occasion with handguns, although long guns are more typical. In both cases, 9 mm is at the low end of a round suitable for killing either animal reliably, especially out of typical handgun barrel lengths. Even fairly close, deer are a bit large to ensure one-shot kills and boar/hogs have a tough hide, limiting penetration.
I have shot deer with the 9mm and it is more than adequate for one shot kills and ditto for pigs as well. I have had the .45acp fail to penetrate more than any 9mm I have ever used. I recommend the 125 grain or heavier expanding bullets bullets. As with any firearm including rifles shot placement is critical. I have had deer run away when shot with .12 gauge shot guns and hit more than once whose projectile is around .727 caliber.

My own Walther P5 is well throat-ed and far better throat-ed than most American made 9mm hand guns. It has never failed to feed anything I put through it. I do recommend you do two things. One is make sure your ammo will feed before relying on it not to jam and also running your own expansion tests on it. I have seen the same bullet tested by different people in different handguns and they often got opposite results as far as expansion, some getting none, some getting average expansion an some getting super expansion. So do not rely on someone else's tests as they may not be valid out of your handgun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
@ ssivbreger

I don't know, if you are a hunter as well.
At least it seems, you were never in the situation of a finishing shot because of your inappropriate and in some kind uninformed reply concerning this matter.
Be sure, this is my only reaction to your reply or any similar replies in the future.
Period
You are in Your own right. :)

To shoot pigs on the hunt with a 9mm pistol, I had no case.
If the activity of the object allowed to approach for a confident pistol shot, I used a chamber insert for 22lr shooting under the ear.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server1700/37586/products/35/images/346/22_LR_1__22746.1412710809.1280.1280.JPG?c=2
And if the animal is still mobile, I prefer to spend one more rifle cartridge from a safe distance.


Well, of course, a Real Man should do this with a knife. ;-)
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top