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Had a guy attend a renewal class two weeks ago. Nice man. A current permit holder. Had not ever fired the gun he brought with him and hadn’t fired a gun since five years ago when he applied for his permit the first time. Left handed but didn’t even know he was right hand dominant.

I spent an extra 90 mins with him.

And just think, you don’t need a permit, a liscense, a background check or any understanding of any laws whatsoever to have a gun at home for personal defense. So yes, I do think “Joe Public” is clueless doesn’t consider a lot of things.

People may own a firearm (which I support) but when I ask them questions about basic legal matters in class such as “you are awakened by a noise on the front stoop. You see a shadowy figure outside. You grab your gun. Can you shoot through the window?” Half the class thinks you can with no consequences.

That's frightening.
 
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Sadly, it's typical.

The old stereotype of the person that buys a 38 special revolver, runs a cylinder of ammo through it, then puts it in the sock drawer and calls it good is, like most stereotypes, based in fact.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
WaterDR, what state are you in? You are so correct about the laws of when, where, and in what circumstance that you can use deadly force. I know in my state night and day personal defense is a huge difference. And laws change from time to time and lots of people don't bother to read about the laws. One of my best friends was one of the first concealed carry instructors in Texas so I've learned a lot from him and have taken two courses to keep up. Great writing!
Jim D
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Deut, your post about the rioting in Florida is very interesting, can't be enough law enforcement to cover everything. Living 10 minutes from the coast and with hurricanes, floods, and natural disaster, I sometimes worry about rioting and looting like in Louisiana during Katrina. Not just 2 or 3 but gangs or groups when law just can't be there to help. That's the reason for my AR/Aimpoint and plenty of double magazines clipped together. Lots of people know I have lots of weapons and they might get me but not before I burn some powder myself. I don't know the law about self defense during a riot but I would have to use my head and protect my family and property as best as possible.

Jim D
 

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I live in WI and MN.

I know this is not a popular thing to say on a a gun forum, but the burden on buyers to purchase a gun is almost non existent. While there are criminal background checks etc.... there is training requirement.

In the state of WI, to have a carry permit, all you need to do is to show that you have had any type of gun related training and then you pay $40. You don’t even need to fire a weapon. In MN, there is a much more robust process but even at that, it’s not nearly enough IMO. My course I teach well exceeds the standards and is approved as a muti state carry class. At least we require that the student has to fire 50 rounds and is scored. But again....it’s not really enough. Most of the class is spent on laws, when you can fire and what to do if you do etc...

To own a gun at home, or to open carry, you are required to do nothing. NOTHING. Know nothing. You buy the gun and are given a pamphlet that talks about keeping guns away from kids. That’s it.
 

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BCD45, Add to that the reality of LEOs and Nat'l Guard in Louisiana (post-Katrina) ORDERED to gather ALL firearms owned by citizens, regardless of situations, NO exceptions. It took over 7 yrs and numerous lawsuits filed by NRA to get a process in place to return these weapons to their owners.
This situation boggled my mind, the federal and local government, Nat'l Guard, and State/local LEO are ALL unable to effectively protect the public, and their response? Disarm responsible citizens.
They were ACTUALLY knocking down doors of OCCUPIED citizens homes, claiming that this was done to ensure the safety of everyone inside, then questioning occupants/searching for firearms.
Try that sh1t in Texas after a national disaster, most citizens won't give two turds who the F is on the other side of their door while it's being broken from it's hinges. FEMA better send lots of body bags if they think that SOP/process will work around these parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Deut,
Sadly yes that happened and how more stupid can you get! They had plenty of other things they should have been doing to get prepared. They or the UN might get mine someday but they will never find 1 AR, a red dot, 8 magazines, and 1000 rounds on stripper clips that I have stored. If the time ever came I'd just do what I have to do and be dam the consequences.
Jim D
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WaterDR,
That's scary about WI. Basically $40.00 and that's that. Unreal.
Jim D
 

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Nightstand: G19 gen4 . . w/g17 mag & spacer . . . TCR4 light/laser . . . Fed HST 150
Underbed : Rem 1100 - 18" - 20ga - 8 shot - #3 buck

2 other pistols in various locations

And I'll add you should have your vehicle keys on nite stand to. Most cars today have a "panic" button.
Bump in the night . . . push the panic on count to 10 and off . . . . You may hear the bump scrambling to ... move on.
Still hear it ? It has then got to be a determined idiot, or neighbor, returning the tools he borrowed :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Good job guys of choosing nice firearms to defend your property, home, and family. All I can say is practice with them all you can and may you never have to use them for the purpose of defense. Have a great safe weekend and good shooting.

Jim D
 

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Good job guys of choosing nice firearms to defend your property, home, and family. All I can say is practice with them all you can and may you never have to use them for the purpose of defense. Have a great safe weekend and good shooting.

Jim D
Just keep in mind, you can use deadly force to protect your property. You can use deadly force in your home to stop a felony or to protect life but not property.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
WaterDR,
Please clarify your statement in post #50. I think I know what your saying but you said two things, deadly force to protect property but not in home to protect property. Some may be confused. Thanks,

Jim D
 

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In the state of WI and MN and in most stages, you can not use deadly force to protect property. However, in your home, you can use force necessary to stop a felony from taking place. And in most cases, so long as you fear for your life, you can use deadly force to stop an intruder once they are inside the home.

In your home, you have already been considered to have retreated.

Keep in mind, however, that as soon as you use force, you are required to stop using force once the threat has stopped. So, bullet number one and two to the chest that stops the intruder might be legal, but the third round to the head could be murder.

What I tell my students is to comply to the laws. I can’t tell someone what they SHOULD do or even what I would do, but rather that the law states is legal and what is not. Where you live and your state of mind makes a difference too...also who else in the home. I also coach them as to what is practical.

For example, if you live in an urban area, are the only one in the house, locking yourself in the bathroom with your gun while you call the police might be a good option. But if your teen daughter lives with you and the boyfriend has a restraining order and you live in a rural area, and you think he is entering your home to rape your daughter, you can shoot to prevent what you believe would be a felony rape.

The same issues apply to entering your own home to protect the life of a family member. Where the law gets complicated is when your family started the fight 🙂
 

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Then again, in TX you can pretty much shoot anyone for looking at your funny. But TX is not most states.

Not really.


It's the same standard as most other "pro 2nd A" states.


If you use a firearm, you need to have a situation where you or those around you are faced with a imminent, deadly threat.


It SEEMS like Texas laws are more lax, because post shooting, many shooters are not arrested.


Some states, use a firearm for self/home defense, get arrested. You have state/local politicians & prosecutors to thank for this. In some states, the criminal has more rights then the victim. Not only won't I live in a state like this, I won't visit/vacation there either.
 
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Interesting turn of the conversation here. In Texas we cannot just shoot anyone for anything or I’d have left a wake of deadsters with man-buns behind me by now and probably wouldn’t be alive myself today, for that matter. Civil unrest is a thing and sometimes you don’t have it on the calendar as something you look forward to participating in this weekend. Cops are not there to protect you either. They would if they could, but their job is to arrest the bad guy who just killed you. So I’d rather take my chances and be part of my own self defense team, but that’s my choice and probably the choice of many who frequent these forums. So about civil unrest, it’s just better to live on the outskirts as far as is practical and have as much elbow room between you and the neighbors as you’re able. At least for me, that is. If it’s a targeted home invasion, they are jumping my fence, running across an acre of land and making their way in to my home with a lab/boxer mix. She knows who she knows and if she don’t know you, then it is what it is. But Texans shooting for shootings sake isn’t reality. We are as a generalization a friendly and respectful folk and country or quasi-country is the best place to live. Just my 2 cents...
 

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"These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy."

The list......

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/


Gone are the days of unbiased/impartial news/data reporting. Today it's all about driving an agenda.


The "higher education" institutions can't even turn out students who understand "debate". Simple "premise, sub-premise, facts, empirical evidence, conclusion" is gone.


Today it's "attack ANYONE who disagrees", call them names, scream, ban them from campus/all social media, get in their faces, spit in their food, threaten their family, blind side tackle then, shoot up their baseball games,........


Sad times to live in, for sure.
 
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