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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
And it doesn’t make any goddamn sense. Especially in fully pre-cocked actions like the Q4 and PPQ.
Most striker-fired pistols have similar safety systems:
  • Drop safety on the trigger
  • Striker block safety
  • Striker drop safety (PPQs have a sear with a second ledge)
They are specifically designed so that pulling the trigger discharges the weapon. For better or worse. But the Q4 SF is not unique in that among striker-fired guns.

But I prefer to carry a 1911, so what do I know? :p
 

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Most striker-fired pistols have similar safety systems:
  • Drop safety on the trigger
  • Striker block safety
  • Striker drop safety (PPQs have a sear with a second ledge)
They are specifically designed so that pulling the trigger discharges the weapon. For better or worse. But the Q4 SF is not unique in that among striker-fired guns.

But I prefer to carry a 1911, so what do I know? :p
Yeah, most striker-fired guns have the passive safety systems. And on a stock Glock or an M&P… okay, sure. Those aren’t fully cocked actions. But PPQs and PDPs and VP9s are essentially SAO… like a 1911. And I wouldn’t feel comfortable carrying one without a manual safety… like a 1911.

But hey— to each their own. I just prefer a safety with my SAO. Or better yet, DA/SA.
 

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The US Army insisted on a manual safety for the SIG M17/M18, a striker fired gun.

There is a strong argument the manual safety lever is entirely superfluous and unnecessary.
There is also a strong argument that the manual safety lever is useful and necessary because it adds another level of redundancy and safety when handling the gun.

It really comes down to preference and comfort. I'd not fault anyone who prefers a greater number of redundant safeties.
 

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SIG sure sells a lot of Legions. Anyone want to compare Walther steel frames to them?

I own both. Prefer the Walther.
I own a Walther Q4 Steel Frame optics ready. I've used it sans optics and with a Trijicon RMR type 2 3.25
I also have a P226 9mm RX Legion (alloy frame) equipped with suppressor height X-Ray 3 night sights and a Romeo1Pro.
I also have a P220 10mm Legion (steel frame) with standard X-Ray 3 iron night sights

Comparisons...

First off, they are all great guns that are very shootable.
I'd note that my P226 Legion slide is currently in the mail to SIG right now because the rear sight was about to fall off after it's first range trip. Gave it a wiggle and the sight moves by hand through the dovetail.:mad:

I'm very strongly biased towards DA/SA guns. I feel like the short reset single action in the legion pistols is a superior trigger to the Walther striker fired trigger. I also feel like the trigger in the steel frame guns is not as good as the polymer ones. Something about the Sig is just a little more crisp, just a little less creep. Now granted... it's really splitting hairs. Both triggers are all sorts of excellent.

Fit and finish on the Walther is superior. Both my Legion pistols had issues with the finish. The P220 has a chip in the cerakote where the front sight was installed. My P226 seems like it might have been dinged or handled roughly because there was a bit of bare aluminum showing on the frame when I received it (the dealer did give me $300 off on account of it... at that sort of discount sign me up for even more blemishes!)

I feel like I'm more accurate with the SIG guns. I largely cred it to the fact that the stock X-Ray 3 sights are just absolutely fantastic and are far superior to the sights that Walther equips their guns with. When using the red dot optics both guns are absolute tack drivers. The P226 was putting bullets in the same hole at 25 yards when hand fired from a sandbag rest. The P220 with irons only is pretty good too. I'm tempted to have it milled for a red dot sight. I probably will if the industry ever settles on a standardized optic footprint.

Trijicon vs the Romeo1Pro - Romeo has a much bigger viewing window. I haven't done any drop tests or anything like that so I can't speak to the durability of either product. I'd note that the Romeo came zeroed from the factory shooting about 4 inches low which seems just lazy on the part of SIG. SIG's product does allow you to have backup irons. I understand Walther has an available option with rear backups but they didn't send me one with that feature... so boo on Walther.
 

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The US Army insisted on a manual safety for the SIG M17/M18, a striker fired gun.

There is a strong argument the manual safety lever is entirely superfluous and unnecessary.
There is also a strong argument that the manual safety lever is useful and necessary because it adds another level of redundancy and safety when handling the gun.

It really comes down to preference and comfort. I'd not fault anyone who prefers a greater number of redundant safeties.
Well said. I just wish Walther offered the option… per your point.

I often wonder if it costs foreign gun companies a ton more money to import another version of a gun. So they just choose the option they think more people will want (I.e non-safety). Case and point, S&W and Sig (both US made) offer safeties with their SFA guns. Walther and HK don’t… Beretta offers a user-installable safety with the APX.
 

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Happy owner of a PPQ M2. Found a used and reasonably priced Q4 SF at the local shop the other day and found it very comfortable ergonomically. Big question is if the many PPQ M2 magazines I have accumulated (including 20 round capacity) will fit the Q4 SF? Thanks for the help.
 

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But I would think that the relatively short grip of the Q4s and Q5s would be a detriment to anyone with larger than medium-sized hands. Not to mention the small 15-round stock magazines. Now, a steel-framed optics-ready PDP...
^^This^^
Absolutely the downfall of the Q4/5 and PPQ in general is exactly the above. A compact only grip, really really dumb.

Equally correct is the hope for a steel frame PDP. I sent my Q5SF back to Walther because it was lacking. A steel frame PDP? I’d buy that in a heartbeat.
 

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^^This^^
Absolutely the downfall of the Q4/5 and PPQ in general is exactly the above. A compact only grip, really really dumb.

Equally correct is the hope for a steel frame PDP. I sent my Q5SF back to Walther because it was lacking. A steel frame PDP? I’d buy that in a heartbeat.
Lacking in what way? The length of the grip? Accuracy? Trigger?
 

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I love my SF. It is totally impractical. Too heavy for carry. All the reasons discussed above. But it is a damn fine firearm that I put right up next to the P5 and even the P88. They are all safe companions.

I think it is a, “Because we can“ gun for Walther and for me it’s just plain lust. It might not top having a Gold Top Les Paul and a fine stripper girlfriend at the age of 21...but it‘s easier to justify to the wife at 57.

I prefer it over the 229 Legion.

Maybe I’m just an old dog and a square, but I’m not as impressed with the PDP as it seems others are. The familiarity of the grip to the SF is nice.
 

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It sure looks like the end of the road for the PPQ. But what of the Q4 and Q5 steel frame models? Are we to expect steel frame PDPs, or are the steel frames not popular enough to continue?

Please speculate. I'm new to Walther and unfamiliar with their history.
Q5 and Q4 SF are the best pistol in Walther line up. I carry them and compete with them. I hope they never stop thier production. I own three two Q5s and one Q4 and looking to buy two more Q4s!
 

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Lacking in what way? The length of the grip? Accuracy? Trigger?
Short grip. They put a G19 length grip on all the Q and PPQ line. Theres a reason literally no other manufacturer did that on their signature line. They fixed it with the PDP.
Everything else is fine
 
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While I adore the steel frames, you'll find the market for these pistols is going to be relegated mostly to die-hard Walther guys like us. I have a steel frame of my own, and while I enjoy the worksmanship and shootability, I can't imagine using it in a self defense or competition setting.
I have used my Q4SF in Competition - though I shoot matches to better my ability, not to get a title. I also conceal carry the Q4 - its about the same weight as the Govt issued 1911 I first learned to shoot. Realistically, sometime lethal force isn’t an option… I don’t recommend you try pistol whipping a perp with your competition Tupperware!”
 

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I "adopted" my Q4SF from work and I thoroughly enjoy shooting it at the range and having it in my HD plan. Out of my metal-framed, carry-sized "Fighting Nines", the Q4SF is the softest shooting (due to the steel, not alloy) and has an amazing trigger for a striker-fired 9mm. I, for one, am glad I dove into the steel frames and I do hope there is a Q45 SF or a PDP flavored .45 ACP SF.

My "Fighting Nines" (w/o threaded barrels) after a cleaning...
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Revolver

Air gun Trigger Machine gun Gun barrel Wood
 

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I love my SF. It is totally impractical. Too heavy for carry. All the reasons discussed above. But it is a damn fine firearm that I put right up next to the P5 and even the P88. They are all safe companions.

I think it is a, “Because we can“ gun for Walther and for me it’s just plain lust. It might not top having a Gold Top Les Paul and a fine stripper girlfriend at the age of 21...but it‘s easier to justify to the wife at 57.

I prefer it over the 229 Legion.

Maybe I’m just an old dog and a square, but I’m not as impressed with the PDP as it seems others are. The familiarity of the grip to the SF is nice.
Cause we can………love it my motto!
 
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