[DeutschlandUberAlles]

I received a P.M. around an hour ago asking I post this.
It seems a previous owner of the slide/barrel of this GB item asks that buyers be aware of some details.

The below is a copy/paste from the PM.
I have joined the forum once again with a new nickname (GeMor) for an important thread about a partly faked Walther P38k, which is offered at time on gunbrokers (item 850462248).
My previous nickname was GMork.
I therefore ask that this thread be published as soon as possible on the sub section "classics".
As it's always handled with first posts of e new member, these first posts must be allowed by a moderator. But I can't find any moderator at time on Waltherforums. Maybe you can contact additionally a moderator for that purpose?
The title of my just sent thread is "Warning of a partially faked Walther P48k, at time offered on gunbrokers".

For your own information about the faked P38k I add the text of my posted thread. In the original thread are added also some pictures for proving my statements.
Many thanks in advance.

GeMor (GMork)

Text of my thread in the sub section classics, till yet not published:

"Till December, 20th, I was already a member of this forum (nickname GMork).

I only registered and joined once again to this forum, because I've just found a Walther P38k on Gunbrokers (item 850462248), which I have owned "partly" till November last year.
I say "partly", because I have owned only the slide with the two belonging barrels in 9mm Luger and 7,65 Para.

But the frame with the BW mark with which the weapon is offered on Gunbrokers (pistol # 502059) is not originally part of the weapon!
The original frame was destroyed when I bought the slide with the barrels in 1987.
Background of this action: In Germany you can own as a hunter two guns without a needs-testing.
But you also can buy and own without needs-testing as much additional slides and barrels for a pistol you own already, if the additional slide and the belonging barrel has the same or a smaller caliber than the original pistol has.
In 1987 I bought a Walther P4 as one of the two guns I can own as a hunter.
Additionally to the P4 I bought a complete Walther P38k. But because of the above described German weapon law, the original frame of the P38k was destroyed, But I got all the internal parts from the frame of the P38k (that's allowed) together with the original box and the target paper of the P38k.
Because the Walther P4 and the Walther P38k have the same frame and the same safe system, it's possible without any problem, to use alternaly the slide of the P4 and of the P38k on the frame of the P4

In November last year I sold the Walther P4 together with the slide, the two barrels (9mm Luger and 7,65 Para), the inner parts of the frame, the box and the target paper of the P38k to a German gun dealer.

Now I detected a Walther P38k on Gunbrokers (item 850462248) with the slide and the barrels I sold in November 2018. I can prove it because the slide has the same number as my slide I sold together with the P4 in 2018. Of course the box and the target paper are also identical to the box and target paper I sold in 2018.

But the frame of this offered P38k is not the original one!
As already written the original frame was destroyed in 1987.
Someone must have used another frame from a P4 with BW marks and must have inserted the existing internal parts of the P38k in this frame.
Probably he did this to create a very rare version of the P38k, a P38k with BW marks.
But once again: This is a fake - the frame and the slide with the two barrels, the box and the target paper don't belong together originally!
At least by this Walther P38k it can't be proven, that the German army (Bundeswehr - BW mark) ever has owned a Walther P38k with two barrels in the different calibers 9mm Luger and 7,65 Para.

I am not a member of Gunbrokers and do not want to be one. But I suppose, that readers of this thread are members of Gunbrokers. Perhaps someone of them can point out on gunbrokers, that the frame and slide with the two barrels of the item don't belong together.
Maybe it can be avoided by such a message to Gunbrokers, that there's create a "fairy tale" about a Walther P38k with two different calibers owned by the German Bundeswehr.

P.S. This will be my only thread using my new nickname. I only break my silence and I only participate once again for the reasons described above."

 

[GeMor]

The behavior of the moderation / administration of this forum is disappointing. As the former owner of the slide of the P38k offered on Gunbroker, I have taken the trouble and the work to register here with a new nickname to warn about this fake on Gunbroker. But so far my original topic including the photos has still not been published here. That's very frustrating. On Gunbroker the partially faked P38k is still there despite the message from Deutschlandüberalles. Apparently nobody in the US cares about being fooled with this weapon ...

 

[GeMor]

Because I can write replies in this topic I repeat once again the whole original topic, which is still held back by the moderation. Mistakes are corrected now, yesterday it was written in a hurry.

Till December, 20th, I was already a member of this forum (nickname GMork).

I only registered and joined once again to this forum, because I've just found a Walther P38k on Gunbrokers (item 850462248), which I have owned "partly" till November last year.
I say "partly", because I have owned only the slide with the two belonging barrels in 7,65 Par and 9mm Luger.


But the frame with the BW mark with which the weapon is offered on Gunbrokers (pistol # 502059) is not originally part of the weapon!
The original frame was destroyed when I bought the slide with the barrels in 1987.
Background of this action: In Germany you can own as a hunter two guns without a needs-testing.
But you also can buy and own without needs-testing as much additional slides and barrels as you like for a pistol you own already, if the additional slides or the barrels have the same or a smaller caliber than the original pistol has.
In 1987 I bought a Walther P4 as one of the two guns I can own as a hunter in Germany..
Additionally to the P4 I bought a complete Walther P38k. But because of the above described German weapon law, the original frame of the P38k was destroyed, But I got all the internal parts from the frame of that P38k (that's allowed) together with the original box and the target test of the P38k.
Because the Walther P4 and the Walther P38k have the same frame and the same safe system, it's possible without any problem, to use alternaly the slide of the P4 and of the P38k on the frame of the P4

In November last year I offered the Walther P4 together with the slide, the two barrels (9mm Luger and 7,65 Para), the inner parts of the frame, the box and the target test of the P38k on Auctronia. Auctronia is a similar enterprise in Germany as Gunbrokers in the USA. The whole offer was bought by a German gun dealer..

Now I detected a Walther P38k on Gunbrokers (item 850462248) with the slide and the barrels I sold in November 2018. I can prove it because the slide has the same number as my slide I sold together with the P4 in 2018. Of course the box and the target test are also identical to the box and target test I sold in 2018.

But once again:
The frame of this offered P38k is not the original one!
As already written the original frame was destroyed in 1987.
Someone must have used another frame from a P4 with BW mark and must have inserted the existing internal parts of the P38k in this frame.
Probably he did this to create a very rare version of the P38k, a P38k with BW mark and two barrels in caliber 7,65 Para and 9mm Luger.
This is a fake - the frame and the slide with the two barrels, the box and the target test don't belong together originally!


At least by this Walther P38k it can't be proven, that the German army (Bundeswehr - BW mark) ever has owned a Walther P38k with two barrels in the different calibers 7,65 Para and 9mm Luger.
BTW Because the P38k was originally intended for export to Italy, but that probably did not happen, Walther added a second barrel in 9mm Luger for the sale in Germany. The original caliber was 7,65 Para, as you can see by the box of the P38k.


I am not a member of Gunbrokers and do not want to be one. But I suppose, that readers of this thread are members of Gunbrokers. Perhaps someone of them can point out on gunbrokers, that the frame and slide with the two barrels of the item don't belong together.
Maybe it can be avoided by such a message to Gunbrokers, that there's created a "fairy tale" about a Walther P38k with two different calibers owned by the German Bundeswehr.
Thankfully, the member DeutschlandÜberAlles has already sent such a message to Gunbrokers.
But surprisingly there isn't to be seen any reaction by Gunbrokers till yet - the offer of the P38k for $ 2995 is still listed with the same wrong statements about that P38k.


If it would have been used a "normal" frame without the BW mark, I would have said nothing. But using a frame with the BW mark brings the fake one step too high for me. As far as I remember there wasn't a BW mark on the original frame and in 1987 I have examinated both pistols very thouroughly before buying.

To prove my statements I add the following pictures.
The first four ones were taken on occasion of the offer on Auctronia in November last year..
1. All items offered on Auctronia November 2018. In 1987 I also bought an additional long barrel for the P4 in caliber 7,65 Para.

2. Right side of the slide of the P38k with the # 502059 - same number as the number of the P38k offered on Gunbrokers

3.Left side of the slide together with second barrel of the P38k

4. Picture of the internal parts and the grips of the P38k

5. Picture of my German gun control card with the listed Walther P4, the slide of the P38k (Wechselsystem) and the long additional barrel for the P4 caliber 7,65 Para and the short barrel caliber 7,65 Para.

BTW For shooting with both barrels caliber 7,65 Para, regardless of whether with the P4 or with the slide of the P38k, one of the two recoil springs must be removed. Otherwise, no new caliber 7.65 cartridge will be fed and loaded correctly. I've tested that many times.



With this reply, the whole thing is now over for me. I will no longer care whether someone will be fooled with the allegedly complete and very rare P38k with BW mark and two different barrels offered on Gunbrokers.

 

[Kar98]

Who shat in your cereal this morning?

 

[Vandal320]

So he quit the forum, then came back for this?

I am confused right now...

 

[Jimbo80]

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[GeMor]

Ok, reading the first two replies I recieved because of my well ment warning of the faked P38k I answer:
"Dann lasst euch mal tüchtig bescheißen und kauft diese P38k für $2995."

It's also fitting the famous German saying: "Dann macht euren Dreck alleine!"

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

I'm glad that someone actually took the time to give Walther Forum members the heads up on this shady GB seller and his non-Genuine P48K.


I had interest in one of the sellers other items a few weeks ago, send him a detailed message explaining what images I would like to see to verify the OVERALL condition of the gun, a few days later I received an email with pics attached that were WORSE then the auction images. Crossed him off my list of acceptable GB sellers.
I see now, ALL his auctions are "final listing/lowest min bid numbers", and he's not listing AT ALL on GB in the near future. THIS IS ALL RED FLAG TO ME.


Unfortunately, GB does NOT inspect/examine/verify provenance of the guns presented for sale, it's strictly "buyer beware/be aware" for sellers.
The long term result of misrepresenting items on GB is a lower feedback rating. Repetitive scamming will cause GB to go into "active" mode and provide the details of the seller to the proper authorities.
A few on this forum are aware a GB scammer was arrested in Michigan this year for selling firearms he didn't own or even have possession of (I actually purchased a few of his factory hard chrome HK P7M13s (at GREAT prices), then DIDN"T pay when he was unable to provide any pics that would prove he had it).

 

[Kar98]

Ok, reading the first two replies I recieved because of my well ment warning of the faked P38k I answer:
"Dann lasst euch mal tüchtig bescheißen und kauft diese P38k für $2995."<img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Stick Out Tongue" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

It's also fitting the famous German saying: "Dann macht euren Dreck alleine!"<img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Stick Out Tongue" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

I just don't know what you're so pissy about.

 

[GeMor]

I just don't know what you're so pissy about.

If you translate your reply literally, you get the German translation: "Wer hat dir heute morgen ins Müsli geschissen?"
Reading that German translation, it's an insult.
Now I have detected by a google search, that this English saying isn't meant in such insulting way but in a more funny and humorous way.
So I apologize for my "pissy" reply.

 

[bobofthedesert]

The behavior of the moderation / administration of this forum is disappointing. As the former owner of the slide of the P38k offered on Gunbroker, I have taken the trouble and the work to register here with a new nickname to warn about this fake on Gunbroker. But so far my original topic including the photos has still not been published here. That's very frustrating. On Gunbroker the partially faked P38k is still there despite the message from Deutschlandüberalles. Apparently nobody in the US cares about being fooled with this weapon ...

First of all, I'd like to thank you for coming on here to post the information about this piece. Contrary to all the disparaging remarks about me being "shady" etc. (see below) I'm happy to know the true history of the piece, even though I'm the first one who was "fooled with this weapon".



I'm a Type 08/SOT Importer FFL. The gun was purchased by me from a German dealer at the Kassel Show in November of 2018 exactly as you see it listed here, and I took it for exactly what it appeared to be. Who would know differently but for GeMor making this information available? So, the listing was already withdrawn for reasons that will be addressed below, but I might do a short 5 day auction with an edited listing text to reflect this new information.

I'm glad that someone actually took the time to give Walther Forum members the heads up on this shady GB seller and his non-Genuine P48K.

"Shady seller" huh? Please accept my genuine thanks for getting the information on the board, where someone could see it, report it to me via the GB message function, and I could become aware of it.

I had interest in one of the sellers other items a few weeks ago, send him a detailed message explaining what images I would like to see to verify the OVERALL condition of the gun, a few days later I received an email with pics attached that were WORSE then the auction images. Crossed him off my list of acceptable GB sellers.

Sorry, I don't remember you off hand, (other than on HKPro of course) I'll go back and check later for the GB request to review it.



The pics you would receive with an email are higher resolution than what GB "dumbed down" uploaded images displayed on an auction display at.

I see now, ALL his auctions are "final listing/lowest min bid numbers", and he's not listing AT ALL on GB in the near future. THIS IS ALL RED FLAG TO ME.

Well there you go Paul Revere, sound the alarm, you're the HEE-roh of the day.......LOL. Yeah, it couldn't ACTUALLY be what I wrote, that I'm going to be working oversea's (again) for an unknown period and don't want to have listings up there while I'm gone....(except for that Gold plated P7K3, I'm leaving that one up there, "just because" and if someone buys it, I'll hop a flight home for a week to take care of the business)....it couldn't be because of THAT......WTF is wrong with you dude?? Do you even read feedback? Or I guess those guys are all delusional, I freaking Jedi-mind tricked them all into writing that stuff? Over a period of oh, years....

Unfortunately, GB does NOT inspect/examine/verify provenance of the guns presented for sale, it's strictly "buyer beware/be aware" for sellers.
The long term result of misrepresenting items on GB is a lower feedback rating. Repetitive scamming will cause GB to go into "active" mode and provide the details of the seller to the proper authorities.
A few on this forum are aware a GB scammer was arrested in Michigan this year for selling firearms he didn't own or even have possession of (I actually purchased a few of his factory hard chrome HK P7M13s (at GREAT prices), then DIDN"T pay when he was unable to provide any pics that would prove he had it).

Yeah, a few of us have been having fun with that guy....thanks for trying to link me up with him and whatever other shenanigans take place on GB.



People sometimes wonder why I have different user names on different boards. Unfortunately for people who like to "read into" things with the first, most negative explanation that jumps into what they call a brain, there is often a very simple, "non-threatening" reason, for me it's simply that there is usually a period of years between my joining of different websites and I just made up a user name on the fly, much as I did the one I use here, which also happens to be the same as my GB user name. An example would be HKPro.com, where I joined in 2004 and am known as "Lamont", and where I also "know" DeutschlanduberAlles". LOL, huh? Interesting how things work out on the 'net. I think I can safely say my reputation on HKPro, like on GB, is not that of a "shady seller". "Whoops"......ah, my schadenfreude runneth over......

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

I found out even the BEST German to English/English to German online translators are TOTALLY lacking in conveying the intent of the statement translated. I almost had 2 German firearm deals go south last year just POLITLY asking for a status update after wire transferring ks of Euros, and not getting an update for almost 2 months. One was my Lang, that would have been a sad day indeed.
lf we make the choice to use online translators, it needs to be boilerplate facts, and NO nuanced name calling that gets "lost in translation".

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

First of all, I'd like to thank you for coming on here to post the information about this piece. Contrary to all the disparaging remarks about me being "shady" etc. (see below) I'm happy to know the true history of the piece, even though I'm the first one who was "fooled with this weapon".



I'm a Type 08/SOT Importer FFL. The gun was purchased by me from a German dealer at the Kassel Show in November of 2018 exactly as you see it listed here, and I took it for exactly what it appeared to be. Who would know differently but for GeMor making this information available? So, the listing was already withdrawn for reasons that will be addressed below, but I might do a short 5 day auction with an edited listing text to reflect this new information.






"Shady seller" huh? Please accept my genuine thanks for getting the information on the board, where someone could see it, report it to me via the GB message function, and I could become aware of it.




Sorry, I don't remember you off hand, (other than on HKPro of course) I'll go back and check later for the GB request to review it.



The pics you would receive with an email are higher resolution than what GB "dumbed down" uploaded images displayed on an auction display at.






Well there you go Paul Revere, sound the alarm, you're the HEE-roh of the day.......LOL. Yeah, it couldn't ACTUALLY be what I wrote, that I'm going to be working oversea's (again) for an unknown period and don't want to have listings up there while I'm gone....(except for that Gold plated P7K3, I'm leaving that one up there, "just because" and if someone buys it, I'll hop a flight home for a week to take care of the business)....it couldn't be because of THAT......WTF is wrong with you dude?? Do you even read feedback? Or I guess those guys are all delusional, I freaking Jedi-mind tricked them all into writing that stuff? Over a period of oh, years....







Yeah, a few of us have been having fun with that guy....thanks for trying to link me up with him and whatever other shenanigans take place on GB.



People sometimes wonder why I have different user names on different boards. Unfortunately for people who like to "read into" things with the first, most negative explanation that jumps into what they call a brain, there is often a very simple, "non-threatening" reason, for me it's simply that there is usually a period of years between my joining of different websites and I just made up a user name on the fly, much as I did the one I use here, which also happens to be the same as my GB user name. An example would be HKPro.com, where I joined in 2004 and am known as "Lamont", and where I also "know" DeutschlanduberAlles". LOL, huh? Interesting how things work out on the 'net. I think I can safely say my reputation on HKPro, like on GB, is not that of a "shady seller". "Whoops"......ah, my schadenfreude runneth over......

REALLY? F BOMBS because I stated my dealing with you were a "red flag to ME"? KEYWORD ASSHOLE, ME!!!


GO **** YOURSELF, as I stated in this VERY thread, GB is a website that relies on a certain comfort level between buyer and seller, and I have NEVER had a response such as your when requesting more details on a listed firearm. JAM IT UP YOUR ASS YOU PRICK!


If you wish to continue this, let me know. I still have the pics you sent to me when requested detail, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE quality for a seller with 10s of ks of guns on GB.


Oh, ESAD too!

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

Oh, and don't get ****ty with me because I post the details on your Frankenstein monster P48K.
Don't hate the messenger, hate the MESSAGE!


And this is from someone who purchased WELL over 20K in firearms off GB last year. The majority being classic GERMAN firearms!


EDIT; FYI BOOB, your credibility on GB is no better or worse then the provenance of the firearms you list there.
I'm sure you would have given the purchaser of the P48k a TOTAL refund (and covered return shipping w/insurance), had the buyer found this info out POST purchase.
Right, Mr. "AS IS - No refund or exchange"?

 

[bobofthedesert]

REALLY? F BOMBS because I stated my dealing with you were a "red flag to ME"? KEYWORD ASSHOLE, ME!!!


GO **** YOURSELF, as I stated in this VERY thread, GB is a website that relies on a certain comfort level between buyer and seller, and I have NEVER had a response such as your when requesting more details on a listed firearm. JAM IT UP YOUR ASS YOU PRICK!


If you wish to continue this, let me know. I still have the pics you sent to me when requested detail, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE quality for a seller with 10s of ks of guns on GB.


Oh, ESAD too!

Yeah, "really". One "WTF" interrogative triggers a diatribe of "GO **** MYSELF, "ESAD", and an invitation to "jam it up my ass you prick". Wow.



What a gem you must be.....we need to bring back dueling......

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

Yeah, "really". One "WTF" interrogative triggers a diatribe of "GO **** MYSELF, "ESAD", and an invitation to "jam it up my ass you prick". Wow.



What a gem you must be.....we need to bring back dueling......

"REALLY? F BOMBS because I stated my dealing with you were a "red flag to ME"? KEYWORD ASSHOLE, ME!!!"


Well, don't start sh!t, won't be ****. YOU started with the F word, because I stated my interaction with you was a "red flag" to me. And the PM I received from the prior owner PROVED my suspect feeling was correct.


Class act right back at you, resorting to discussions of shooting people we disagree with.
FYI, You're a poster child for the "gun grab" groups, making comments like that.


Nice attempted pivot though, now go back and answer the questions BOOB!
Mr "AS IS - No refund or exchange", and provides low rez pics to those taking the time to HELP YOU sell your wares.

 

[bobofthedesert]

Sigh.....so, I'm in touch via PM with the original owner of the set, "GeMor" and big surprise, we have established that the buyer of the set from him was the same dealer I bought it from in Germany after it magically mounted itself on a Bw marked P4 frame. If only tracing these things was always this easy.


For anyone else who might care, it's been relisted on a short 5 day run, more accurate description, lower price. Have at it guys. All except you DuA, you are a new member of my GB "blocked bidder" list. I've been happy to receive the info about this rig, I have the reputation I do for a reason, obviously you were looking for a fight on top of "board praise" for sounding the alarm. I'm sorry to disappoint you, all you've done today is serve to role of the "useful idiot", getting vital information from one person who has it to another who needed it. "Prost".

"REALLY? F BOMBS because I stated my dealing with you were a "red flag to ME"? KEYWORD ASSHOLE, ME!!!"


Well, don't start sh!t, won't be ****. YOU started with the F word, because I stated my interaction with you was a "red flag" to me. And the PM I received from the prior owner PROVED my suspect feeling was correct.


Class act right back at you, resorting to discussions of shooting people we disagree with.
FYI, You're a poster child for the "gun grab" groups, making comments like that.


Nice attempted pivot though, now go back and answer the questions BOOB!
Mr "AS IS - No refund or exchange", and provides low rez pics to those taking the time to HELP YOU sell your wares.

 

[Kar98]

I still don't understand why certain people started this thread guns a-blazing, angrier than a sack full of ferrets...

Ich verstehe immer noch nicht warum gewisse Leute den Thread gestartet haben und gleich Feuer und Flamme spuckten.

 

[bobofthedesert]

I still don't understand why certain people started this thread guns a-blazing, angrier than a sack full of ferrets...

Ich verstehe immer noch nicht warum gewisse Leute den Thread gestartet haben und gleich Feuer und Flamme spuckten.

And it's not often I can resist rising to the bait of their douchebaggery, so right now I'm actually about as self-satisfied as a man who just found out his rare Bw marked P38K muti-caliber set didn't leave the factory that way can be.....

 

[Vandal320]

Boy, that escalated quickly...