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Discussion Starter #22
I love the PPK as a showpiece, but I wouldn't trust my life to it. Get a Glock 19.
If that's a valid concern, I'm back to the S&W small 1911, or my Model 19. I have no desire to get involved in plastic guns. If it's a valid concern, it's also maybe a good reason to get a brand new PPK.
 

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I love the PPK as a showpiece, but I wouldn't trust my life to it. Get a Glock 19.
If that's a valid concern, I'm back to the S&W small 1911, or my Model 19. I have no desire to get involved in plastic guns. If it's a valid concern, it's also maybe a good reason to get a brand new PPK.
Both of these are IMO silly.

MJM: I've owned a Glock 19 for two decades. It's utterly reliable, accurate, and holds 15 9mm. "Plastic pistol" is an archaic slight to the 19 and several hundred other fine firearms which function very well. It's also essentially a full-sized arm; I don't own nor can reasonably wear clothing that'll keep it concealed unless I'm wearing a jacket.

Additionally, it's a striker-fired pistol that's carried partially cocked. Many many people carry these safely, even appendix carry; after refreshing myself on my G19 and testing a Sig P365 (also silly accurate), I couldn't bring myself to choose them for EDC. If you have the time to drill to where a ND would be near impossible; great. For the same reason I leave the SA cocked-and-locked stuff to people with tons of experience or spare time. My personal thought here is that these are great in a shoulder or OWB carry.

Sktn: See above; nobody should be mistaking a .380 of any sort for a full sized 9, 40, or 45 -- but neither should they mistake a handgun of any sort for a battle weapon.

That said; in the DA/SA category if I wanted a 9/40/45 I would look at the Beretta PX4 compact or full sized. That rotating barrel... I've spent some time with its predecessor, the Cougar, and in .45 the recoil is almost gentle. However they're W I D E and departed from my personal EDC list for that reason.
 

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$900 is too much for a shooter/carry piece.



Bought this one for $350 out the door with a box of ammo perhaps four years ago. .32 though.



Bought this one for $375 or so two or three years ago.



Paid $0 for this one. Neighbor brought it out, asked me if I could cut the recoil spring in half? Said he couldn't cycle it. I said no, it is a blowback pistol and the recoil spring keeps it from battering itself to death. He put it back in the box, handed it to me, said, "take it, I don't want it." He has a lot of firearms and is getting older by the day....I go see him pretty often....:eek:

Came with a horseshoe in the box...cause it kicks like one. Look around, they are for sale, you might even check the "for sale" section here and it wouldn't hurt to put something in the "want to buy" section. Keep reading and asking questions, you can learn a lot here that will benefit your search.. If you are carrying it everyday the last thing you want is a valuable pre war or wartime pistol. There are just too many out there at reasonable prices....which makes me wonder how many people will purchase the Ft Smith/Smith tail new ones at $600 or whatever they are going for. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #25
No.6, think of me as a dinosaur, along with some of the other dinosaurs who write for gun magazines. I prefer steel, not composite. Maybe I shouldn't use the words "plastic pistol" as I'm sure many people are totally happy with them. They just don't appeal to me.

What is a "ND" ?

I don't think I would be comfortable either with "cocked and locked". I know people say it is safe, it is faster, and so on, but by the time I feel comfortable with that idea, I'll be even more ancient than I already am.

The S&W Model 19 is probably ideal for me, and I already own it. For an "active shooter" scenario, where presumably I would be lying on the floor if I couldn't run away, it would be powerful and accurate. The hammer would probably be on an empty chamber, and I know that's also a no-no, but I'm not the only one who feels that way.

As to power, 357 Magnum is presumably powerful enough for the scenarios I am concerned about. Anyway, that's all personal stuff. The reason I posted here is because I thought the PPK might be a good answer for me. Now I'm not so sure.

Whatever I get, I'll be getting lots of practice time with it at the range. I'm already shooting the Model 19 there, with wadcutters. I've had it for almost 40 years, I'm comfortable with it, and if I re-install it, I have a laser sight that goes on it. I do have a CCW permit, but I hardly ever "carry". With all the nonsense I read about on almost a weekly basis, I'd like to have a third choice in addition to what I've been told about "Run, Hide, or Fight".

Thank you for your thoughts. If what I wrote is silly, as you pointed out, that's how I feel, for me, silly or not...
 

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Discussion Starter #26
.........If you are carrying it everyday the last thing you want is a valuable pre war or wartime pistol. There are just too many out there at reasonable prices....which makes me wonder how many people will purchase the Ft Smith/Smith tail new ones at $600 or whatever they are going for.........
I've already learned a lot here, and there's no rush to buy anything. I think I'll hold off until I know more, which means reading a lot more in these forums if I'm still serious about a PPK.

Again, thanks for the advice - I'm going to minimize posting, and do a lot more reading.
 

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You aren't the only one around here that doesn't like polymer pistols...there are others. I don't mind either...as long as they have a long history of running 100%. My wife chooses a revolver which she shoots well. I'm not arguing. 1917
 

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One other thing....when Smith and Wesson began producing the PP pistols they added a longer and thicker beavertail. It is a love it or hate it design. If you look at some of the older PP pistols you will see the original design vs the new look. The beavertail was made larger because the small pistol could bite the hand of the shooter, especially those with large, beefy mitts. I have small, tight hands also and I cannot make the slide come close to my hand. So, that makes you an especially good candidate for the original style and much nicer looking ( my opinion) originals. The new Ft Smith pistols carry the S&W tail. 1917

Did you look at the Sig P238? It is small, steel, weighs 1 lb and has a 1911 layout. https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/sig-sauer-p238-review/
 

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No.6, think of me as a dinosaur, along with some of the other dinosaurs who write for gun magazines. I prefer steel, not composite. Maybe I shouldn't use the words "plastic pistol" as I'm sure many people are totally happy with them. They just don't appeal to me.

What is a "ND" ?
The internet spawns acronyms :) in this case 'Negligent Discharge' -- in short I was concerned that I'd tuck a P365 or G19 in and put a 9mm tunnel in my bum.

Sorry about using 'silly' but there was a whole storm of controversy in the '80s about how Glocks were going to be undetectable by metal detectors and everyone was going to blast their leg off with 'no safety' etc.

In 2019, it's harder to find a steel frame than polymer, internal safeties are tested every which way.

For the record, I'm in the same camp about steel, or I wouldn't be here typing this, but over at the Sig forum. Would you believe I had to look up what a Model 19 is?

Well everyone's preference is theirs, and there's lots of good quality. My only remaining recommendation is to put your paws on a bunch of choices and rent a few. The 'right' answer is the one that works for you so long as it works when you need it, goes where you point it and it's with you at the right time.
 

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Michael', a lot of excellent advice here.

The PPK is a classic pistol, feels great in the hand, and is fun to shoot... in anything but .380.
Most other .380s are some form of locked breech design, which has two advantages: It reduces felt recoil significantly, and the slides are easier to rack...lighter recoil springs.
The first rule of gunfighting is "have a gun". Your Smith 19 is a wonderful revolver, but it is relatively big and heavy. A gun that's heavy and hard to hide will end up home in the safe.
If you're determined to go with a metal pistol, some excellent options have been offered.
Don't be too hasty dismissing 'plastic' guns. Forever ago, a buddy let me shoot his Glock 19; I was really prepared to despise it. Then I found I could see the ball in the bucket sights, and easily get hits. As has been noted, the Glock 42 is Walther-sized, and bunches nicer to shoot.
As regards defensive distance, 21' is usually accepted; letting anyone with harmful intent get closer than that puts you at risk. OTOH, shooting at someone at 50' probably means you had other options.
.
Moon
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Thanks 'halfmoonclip'. The question about what you wrote is if I bought a PPK in .380, it might have excessive recoil - but if I get it in a lower caliber, it has less stopping power. But because of the size, it's one of the guns I'd be most likely to make a permanent addition to one of my pockets.

21 feet..... I normally shoot at 25 yards, and my range has provision for 15. Then there's a "tunnel" where I can shoot much closer. I sort of figured if I got the PPK, I would learn and practice at 15 yards. Maybe that's not realistic though.... More things to think about.

Three years ago I made a trip to Colorado, and ended up at a shooting range where I rented a Glock - no idea which one. My impressions were that it was big and bulky, and it kept "jamming"; not knowing anything about it the worker at the range kept coming over to fix it. As to accuracy, at 15 yards it didn't even make a group that I could take home. I didn't like it, but I'm sure the particular gun I was shooting just had "issues".

Back to my world, if I was concerned most with self protection, the PPK (maybe in a smaller caliber) would maybe be fine. If my concern is with an active shooter, I have doubts if it would do anything useful. I could always get one in 22 - they're readily available and not very expensive, but not very powerful...... I suppose I could always buy one of them in 22, learn the gun, and see how well it works for me. If I didn't like it, I'm sure I could sell it, but knowing me, I'd hang onto it anyway.
 

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In case any reader is wondering why we would sh*t on the most iconic product of a company on a forum dedicated to products of said company: we're not.
We're just pointing out that the design is now 90 years old and unlike the even older design of the 1911, there isn't a plethora of companies building and improving upon it to this day.
There are so many smaller, lighter, more reliable, safer, higher capacity and larger caliber handguns available for CC, the two things the PPK has going for itself are its iconic status and how ahead of its time it was 90 years ago.
 

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I’m SO late to the party... but having both the ppks and the ppk, I would say that the ‘which is best’ answer depends on your needs. If I could have one and only one for carry purposes, it would be a West German ppk in .32. But the reasons I would choose it are specific to my situation:

I don’t care for the metal backstrap on the ppks because it hurts my hand; this issue is solved by the design of the ppk.

I need the longer grip of the ppks due to my wide palm/long fingers but the finger extension mag works for me on the ppk so problem solved. I use flat mags on ppks and extension mags on the ppk.

.380 kicks in both models but it’s not like shooting a .357 or anything. It’s not going to rock your world. I’m used to now (and I’m a girl) so it’s not a huge deal but if you were expecting no recoil because of its weight, you will be ‘surprised’ when you pull the trigger.

You can find good .32 rounds but it’s not as easy as it is the find other rounds. As for knock down power... Underwood and others can provide a defensive round in almost any caliber. I went with .380 because I didn’t want to have to buy another caliber (or specific manufacturer) for carry. I do own a ppks in .32 though. If I didn’t already have to stock .357 sig., .380, 40, .45 Ammo for other guns then I would be carrying the .32 since it’s significantly easier to shoot due to less snappiness.

All of my pp models are accurate. I can hit the bullseye at 15 yards with all of my .380s. It’s just not easy to do with the short barrel and tiny sights.

I’ve tried Glocks and they just don’t fit me. The pp models are sexy and they fit my hand nicely. I also like having the safety/decocker feature on a carry gun. They are also dead easy to tear down.

Bottom line: If you can shoot the .380 comfortably then I’d go with that, if not, then go with the .32. Regarding the choice between the ppk or the ppks, it’s going to come down to which feels the best in your hand. I carry the ppks in .380 with a Hogue sleeve covering that damn metal backstrap. Did I mention that I hate the ppks backstrap? Well I do. I put wood grips on my ppk and I’d be carrying that one if the grips were slimmer and didn’t make the gun print.

Hope this helps!
 

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PPK or 1911.....now that is a conundrum. :p I do find that a single stack fits my hand well whereas I have a bit of a reach problem with my P99 AS and other similar sized Walther pistols. Count me in as one who likes a manual safety on a carry firearm as well. I mostly carry a 9mm Shield with the thumb safety these days. But, I had a .380 in my pocket earlier today...yep, it had a safety too. Good luck with your search. What neck of the woods are you in? Gunshops and ranges nearby...many rent different makes/caliber of pistols that you can try and I'm sure your buddies have a wide selection.

My go to house gun is a suppressed .22. 9mm and a 12 gauge are close by. But I'd sure hate to shoot them in the house. My ears couldn't take it. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Where am I? Hotel Dorian is almost knocking on my front door. Almost. Too close for comfort.

The 1911 has a LOT of advantages, as I'm pretty used to them, and can disassemble the frame and rebuild it from scratch. I'd have a steep learning curve on the PPK. Also, if the 1911 misbehaved, I'd have some ideas as to what to do. With the PPK, ????? But if I got a PPK, I'd take the time to learn it.

Best answer is to buy both. :)
 

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I currently have a PPK in .32, 1968 version, and a PPK/s Interarms in .380 I got back in 1979 or so. I don't find either of these unsuitable for self defense, nor do I think they're the in any way the best solution. For me, the most suitable for self defense pistol is the Sig 365, which weighs, loaded, about the same as the PPK loaded...and it's 10+ rounds of 9mm V 7+1 of .32. I've got J, K, and L frame Smith revolvers, carried one for years on and off duty, also a 1911 Commander which I carried later on. Had to dress for the bigger guns. But I never got burned with a concealed one.


I can't imagine a self defense situation one could address successfully with a gun with an unloaded chamber. Don't think anyone is going to have a chance to chamber a round in time to save his life. I don't practice SD shooting at 25 yards, because my idea of SD is more like 3 yards. One of my .32 pistols, a FN 1910, has virtually no sights at all and I can group it pretty good at 15 feet, just pointing and shooting. Very fast...recoil is minimal on the small pistol.


I'm recoil sensitive, but don't remember the .380 as being punishing. It's very accurate, too.


My wife preferred a revolver, also, because they're simpler to shoot. She had little interest in shooting, and never learned to trust a semi...not because she was afraid of a ND, just because she KNEW how to use a revolver and didn't bother to learn about autos.


I've never been bitten by any auto pistol, 1911 or PPK. I don't know why I haven't been, got normal size hands, but I think the beavertail on a PPK/S ruins the looks of the pistol.


They say both the .32 and the .380 "are not your father's caliber." They've been improved so far as performance goes (not substantially, but somewhat) and you've got more bullet choices. Lately, I saw on Youtube a comparison of the .32 bullets in ballistic gel. The HPs expanded, but didn't penetrate enough, the hardball over penetrated but didn't leave much of a wound channel, and the Lehigh cavetator did best, penetrating well and leaving a significant wound channel. Unfortunately, my PPK won't feed them, so I go hardball when I carry it.


The smaller caliber guns like the .380 and oddly enough, the .32 seems to be making somewhat of a comeback with the KelTec P32s, which worked their way past a rocky beginning into general praise. S&W, Colt, and Glock are all making .380s and they are tiny and comfortable to carry.


Me, I love plastic. When I carry iron guns, it's for nostalgia.
 

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I learned something today. I thought my PPK was substantially heavier than my Kimber Micro 9. I weighed them both today and was surprised to learn the Kimber is exactly one pound (16 oz) while the PPK is 20 oz, which doesn’t sound like much, but it’s still a 20% increase in unloaded weight.

Both have 6-round magazines, but 9mm ammo is heavier than 380 ACP, so when loaded the weight delta is a bit smaller than 20%.

In terms of physical dimensions they are literally almost identical. (See photos). The PPK/S is larger than these two of course, about the same size as the Kimber would be with the extended 7-round magazine.

Significantly, the 9mm offers something like 40% more stopping power vs. the 380, and in these two different designs, the 9mm delivers notably LESS recoil.

Especially considering you have 1911 experience and are considering a more-or-less full-size 1911 at the moment, I think you would definitely be best-served with the Kimber Micro 9. (I think the 1911 you are considering is close to 2 lbs, 32 oz).
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Someone I know from a different forum has a PPK/S that he no longer uses. When Hurricane Dorian allows me to get back to my normal life, I'm buying it.

Who knows, if I ever get used to "carrying", maybe I'll get something different. You guys have certainly given me a lot of things to consider.

I checked your photos - makes a lot of sense. That Kimber is verrrrry tempting!
 
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