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Discussion Starter #1
Recently, I had the opportunity to purchase a full Walther PPK / E in its matching box, from which I share photos.
(The letter "E" means "Europe", as it was intended to be marketed primarily in Europe).

What I have always liked about the Walther PP series, is its exquisite design; excellent quality, its great mechanism. Its excellent workmanship and machining is excellent and its blue finish and polish is the best that has been done. So it is a Masterpiece.

I am an experienced marksman and passionate about weapons Masterpieces. So like many of you, I enjoy reading, studying, looking and admiring, good designs.

I have a Walther PP, NIB, from the year 1971, which I am in love with. It is not a blind love, but very well founded with 89 years of mystical history, in its own right.
It is very well made and has an exquisite design and a beautiful blue polish not seen today in any weapon.

The quality of the steel, the machining, of all its parts, as well as its blue polished finish is the best and the design a beauty.
The quality of manufacture is the best that has been done in the history of weapons.
Its blue finish and polishing is a beauty to see.

I mention all of this because, at least for me, I think the appeal of the Walther PP Series is:
1. Design (Masterpiece)
2. Quality of materials (all of forged steel of the best quality),
3. Perfect machining (milling, turning and hand-adjusted by Master Gunsmiths).
4. Perfect finish and beautiful blue polish.
5. The German mystic with 89 years of history (Franco / German)

So if some of these 5 points are missing, I will not fall in love :) This love is not a whim, because the design of the Walther PP Series requires a quality, care in the manufacturing process, that only the Germans and the Franco / Germans could do what.

Remember the difficulties and recall that Smith & Wesson had in 2012, when under license from Walther it began manufacturing the Walther PPK / S and PPK.

Smith & Wesson, is an excellent factory, but used modern manufacturing techniques, this is MIM parts and Microfusion frame made with technology supplied by Ruger.

Walther's design is complex, it is a Masterpiece that requires classic non-modern technology to achieve excellent manufacturing.

Having said all this, the Walther PPK / E does not meet my expectations, I am not saying that it is a bad pistol, it is surely good, it is not up to the original. It does not even become a Clone.

Reasons:
1. It is not made in Germany, but in Austria by the famous and now defunct manufactures FEG brand (this can be verified by the test marks).

2. It is literally a FEG model PA 63 with the Walther PPK slider. (Magazines and parts are not interchangeable with any of the original Walther PP Series.

3. The classic text coined on the slider that is engraved and is a pleasure to see, here in the PPK / E it is written with white laser, losing the original appeal, it only has, coined the Walther banner.
The trigger is microfusion and other parts are probably not forged.

4. When Walther presents the PPK / E version at the world arms exhibition in 2000, he does so mentioning that "new technologies have been used in their manufacture, thus allowing their costs to be lowered." To me this sounds like a cheap version of inferior quality.

Today making a Walther PP Series pistol with the quality of an original would be impossible, since the manufacturing cost would be extremely high. Still not skimping on manufacturing costs, the old Master Gunsmiths of yesteryear no longer exist.

So I decided to let the complete PPK / E pass in its box.

The wait paid off and a beautiful Walther PP, NIB, complete set with numbered box, small tool, factory signed numbered lens, manual, set of a pair of original magazines. All unused.
I put them a set of French walnut root, made in Europe, because this beautiful pistol deserves it.
I share photos of my queen, wishing you enjoy it.
Only my 2 cent.
Luck !
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I'm not convinced that the "E" in PPK/E really did reflect the intention to sell this gun in Europe primarily. The European market with a huge number of beautiful vintage PP and PPK models isn't interested in a cheap clone. Just think of the low sale numbers of the PPK/S .22 model in Europe. If the target market had been Europe, a PPK model would have been produced instead of a PPK/S clone. In Europe there was never any demand for the PPK/S. For this reason it is almost unknown there. The third point is the fact, that the PPK/E was the only PPK model available in .22lr at that time. And .22lr is a calibre that sells much more in the US than in other countries.

You wrote the PPK/E wasn't manufactured in Germany. That's correct. But it wasn't made in Austria either. It was produced in Hungary by company internationally known as FÉG. By the way, when the PPK/S .22 was announced in 2013, Walther mentioned "modern manufacturing methods" as a sophisticated synonym for cheap production again. If I ever stumble across a PPK/E, I will buy it immediately. They are a rarity in my region and a welcome addition to any PP series collection.

By the way, you write about the 89 years of history. Are the two missing years since 1929 a mystery or rather a miscalculation? When it comes to the infamous recall by Smith & Wesson you're a little off too. The recall became known to the public already three years earlier thus in 2009.
 

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Some people say ironically, E = Economy but in fact E = Europe. Made by FEG in Hungary as mentioned correct. It was Walther`s low-end model. ~6800 guns were made acc. to Dieter Marschall.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you Mr. Martin and Mr. Balog for your participation in the thread.

I usually write very very late at night and I'm half asleep, it sometimes leads me to make mistakes: I should have said Hungary, and the retirement of the Smith & Wesson was from March 1, 2002, to February 3, 2009. Production continued until around 2013.

As well supported by Mr. Martin, the PPK / E, the letter "E" identifies the model for Europe.

We can speculate the commercial reasons for the model. It occurs to me that despite there being many available used in Europe, buying a new or almost new PP Series or nearby was always an expensive product by all European and American standards.

Putting a product made in Hungary on the market certainly allowed Walther to offer a similar, inexpensive product, to be more exact, the final retail price was about 35% cheaper. Surely, targeting those consumers who wanted a new PPK and could not access a Walther PPK made in germany.

The PPK / E is not a PPK / S and it is also not a PPK; it is simply a FEG PA 63 with a slider similar to the original PPK, it is not even a slider equal to the PPk, because if you do the test you will see that it is not possible to place it in an original PPk or PPK / S.
Neither part of the PPK / E is interchangeable with the Walther PP Series.

I don't think it was intended to be sold in the American market, because the American market is very, very demanding.
The American people are very knowledgeable in the field of weapons and are very demanding.
The PPK / E lacks the refinement that characterizes German manufacturing, it has no ammunition indicator in the chamber, it does not have the classic beautiful anti-reflective wavy pattern on the top of the slider, it only has straight lines and so we could list more manufacturing details.
Why would you settle for a lower quality Walther PPK / E clone when you could access a top quality original PPK or PPK / S or PP, made at ULM in Germany or even an Interarms?

In fact, only a very few Walther PPK / E were imported into the USA, that and the low manufacturing number is another lure for American collectors, but not for its quality, but for its scarcity.

Undoubtedly, the sales strategy was not very successful when putting the Walther PPK / E on the market, since only a few thousand were manufactured and mainly marketed in Europe and Eastern Europe.

My thought is that FEG had been producing clones of the Walher PP Series for years. good quality, lower than "ulm", and labor in hungary is cheaper. So it is possible that Walther saw the possibility of taking advantage of it at a time when it was very difficult for him to maintain the production of the Walther PP Series due to the high cost of production.

To get an idea, a Walther PP, in 1994, sold new imported from Germany ULM in the USA, for more than US $ 1,200, that was a lot of money!
Imagine that the cost in Europe was not cheap, few Europeans could buy a new original Walther ULM.
A cheap version made sense.

Just my 2 cents.
Luck !
 

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As well supported by Mr. Martin, the PPK / E, the letter "E" identifies the model for Europe.
I agree on the fact that the "E" stands for "Europe". It's a PPK made in Europe. But I'm not convinced that the target market really was Europe. If it was Europe, then it was an error. So we can append Martin's ironic remark: "E" stands for "Europe", but it could also have stood for "Economy" or "Error".

I don't think it was intended to be sold in the American market, because the American market is very, very demanding.
The American people are very knowledgeable in the field of weapons and are very demanding.
And how do you explain the reason why the pot-metal PPK/S .22 sells well in the US but not in Europe? I'll tell you. In the US there is a huge market for cheap guns. Such a market doesn't exist in Europe.

The PPK / E is not a PPK / S and it is also not a PPK; it is simply a FEG PA 63 with a slider similar to the original PPK, it is not even a slider equal to the PPk, because if you do the test you will see that it is not possible to place it in an original PPk or PPK / S.
True. That's the reason why I used the expression "clone". I bet you agree that the PPK/E is rather a clone of the PPK/S instead of the PPK. Am I right?

Why would you settle for a lower quality Walther PPK / E clone when you could access a top quality original PPK or PPK / S or PP, made at ULM in Germany or even an Interarms?
What do you want to buy when you already have more or less everything else? It's a fact that I paid a lot more for my American made PPK models than I did for my European models. There is nothing wrong I think.

Imagine that the cost in Europe was not cheap, few Europeans could buy a new original Walther ULM.
A cheap version made sense.
No, I don't agree. The PP series guns didn't sell well in Europe in the '80s and '90s. But it wasn't a problem of their price. The people in Europe paid a lot more for then more useful guns chambered in 9mm for instance.

In fact, only a very few Walther PPK / E were imported into the USA, that and the low manufacturing number is another lure for American collectors, but not for its quality, but for its scarcity.
Walther was unable to find a market. Had Interarms still existed as a distributor, at least the model in .22lr probably would have been a success as a Walther branded plinking gun. It is obvious that Smith & Wesson had absolutely no interest in importing the PPK/E. And after 2003 oder 2004 FÉG went out of business anyway.
 

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Why would you settle for a lower quality Walther PPK / E clone when you could access a top quality original PPK or PPK / S or PP, made at ULM in Germany or even an Interarms?
By the way, of course I'm going to buy one or two Fort Smith PPK models too although they will cost me quite a fortune and I don't particularly like the odd combination of the vintage sights and the exaggerated beaver tail.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Let's clarify something, you can think differently, and that's fine, and you can how many models and types of "Fort Smith PPK", it is your money and your taste.

Having clarified this, I for my part give my point of view, I express my personal pleasure and my choice. Fortunately, Mr "Balogh", in democracies we have a choice.

But the facts are the facts, and the Walther PPK / E is of a lower quality than its premium PP Series and has little of the Walther, more than the Walther banner.

Regarding your question, if it looks more like a PPK / S or a PPK, from my point of view it is neither one thing nor the other, but if I admit that having a full steel grip, it is more similar to PPK / S.

From my point of view, in the United States, 22-caliber weapons are not taken so seriously. They are often considered "children's weapons, beginners'", the same does not happen in Europe and the rest of the world.
To give an example the carbines 22 lr. The brand "Brno" and "CZ", made in Czechoslovakia the first and the Czech Republic the second, are all made of steel and are a small caliber carbine, the 22 lr.
The same can be said of the 22-caliber pistols, brand "Fabrica Nationale d'armes de guerre herstal belgique Browning" "Challenger" and "Medalist" models that are jewels, all of steel, forged and mechanized, as a high caliber weapon Made with the highest quality steel and a high-quality finish and bluing that rivals the Walther PP Series Prestinas.
While in the US The "Ruger" carbine with parts made of aluminum alloys and the classic "Ruger 22" pistol whose chassis is a stamped and welded sheet metal are popular.
But in the USA, the Smith & Wesson 422 and Colt Woodsan and Higth Standar are also sold, to name a few of the best quality. But these are not the trend, rather they are "disappearing dinosaurs"
What happens is that the American market is so big, so big, that there is a wide market and the tendency is to go to economic production and that they require less labor.

That said, the Walther PPK / S, 22 caliber, "Zamak" alloy, is a product aimed at the American market, which mostly considers 22lr caliber weapons, weapons for beginners, children and plinking.
But believe that if it didn't work well, it wouldn't sell in the U.S.
It works and works well, and it's a good buy, if you want it to play weekends plinking with your child on a can 15 yards away. That is almost a toy, well made for plinking in the shape and appearance of a PPK / S.
It is NOT a toy for me, but believe me, in general, the Americans, just because it is a 22l weapon, r, the Americans give them many things as I already explained.

The Walther PPK / E was not only made on 22lr. but it was also manufactured in 32 ACP, like the one illustrated and 380 ACP.
Why they did not commercialize it in the USA, I do not have the crystal ball yet, but I think I have given some indications.

Luck !
 

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But the facts are the facts, and the Walther PPK / E is of a lower quality than its premium PP Series and has little of the Walther, more than the Walther banner.
Does anyone question that? I don't believe so.

That said, the Walther PPK / S, 22 caliber, "Zamak" alloy, is a product aimed at the American market, which mostly considers 22lr caliber weapons, weapons for beginners, children and plinking.
But believe that if it didn't work well, it wouldn't sell in the U.S.
Does anyone question that either? I don't believe so.

The Walther PPK / E was not only made on 22lr. but it was also manufactured in 32 ACP, like the one illustrated and 380 ACP.
Nobody denied that.

Why they did not commercialize it in the USA, I do not have the crystal ball yet, but I think I have given some indications.
It's not all clear to me which indications you are referring to. The best explantion to me is still the fact that Interarms went out of business unexpectedly, probably just shortly after the moment Walther and FÉG decided to launch a low-cost Walther branded pistol. Don't forget that Interarms already sold guns made by FÉG as a less expensive alternative to their Walther branded guns. At that time Walther didn't have any own distribution channels in the US.

The letter "E" means "Europe", as it was intended to be marketed primarily in Europe.
By the way, can you find a source for this statement? The source should include something more of course than just the statement that "E" stands for "Europe", which nobody doubts.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Mr.BALOGH said: "It's not all clear to me which indications you are referring to. The best explantion to me is still the fact that Interarms went out of business unexpectedly, probably just shortly after the moment Walther and FÉG decided to launch a low-cost Walther branded pistol. Don't forget that Interarms already sold guns made by FÉG as a less expensive alternative to their Walther branded guns. At that time Walther didn't have any own distribution channels in the US."

I understand its reasons, but I do not believe the explanation why it was not imported in large quantities in the US, it is so simple.

Let's agree that the true explanation, we may never know, at least not today. So both you and I can only speculate motives.

I agree that his arguments are part of the explanation, but the reality is more complex. I think that another factor that had more influence on the importunity of selling the Walther PPK / E in the United States, is the fact that for years the practically the same pistol (FEG R61 and FEG PA63) had been sold in the USA, under the FEG brand, and at very, very low prices, and yes indeed
many were sold, and can still be found in dealers
new without use, just between only $ 200 to $ 300.
You can check it today in "Gunbroker".

By the way it is a good product, and that is why it has sold well, for years, in the USA. so. Why pay more for the same gun, because it only says "Walther PPK / E"? Well I think that only some distracted consumer and some collectors, as you mention, have almost everything and want to add that piece as a "rarity".

But the American consumer, is very intelligent and enlightened in the field of arms, for the common consumer, they will not pay more for the same pistol, when they can buy it for some coins, under the FEG brand.

In 2000, when the Walther PPK / E was released, the price of a Walther PP Series was around $ 750 in Europe and the price of the Walther PPK / E was $ 550. twice the value of the same pistol sold under the FEG brand on the American market.

Instead, when it was launched just a few years ago, the PPK / S 22 Long Rifle, made from Zamak's controversial alloy, is in a totally different context.
The same is true of the new launch of the American German project for the Walther PPK / S 380 ACP.
Many American and worldwide consumers want to have a real new Walther PPK and only Germans can do it right.

Only a select few can access the increasingly scarce Walther PP Series at increasingly expensive prices at prices that achieve small fortunes.

They are legions of thousands of people around the world who wish to have a new Walther PP Series, so a relaunch makes sense.

But at the same time using the old manufacturing technologies make it impossible to compete in a market that is increasingly making production processes cheaper. So use Smith & Wesson's good contemporary manufacturing experience with techniques such as MIM parts and chassis casting (Ruger technology), associated with Walther's German Master Gunsmiths, and old-fashioned critical parts, this is critical forged and machined parts and other MIM, as well as quality control and finishing done by German Master Gunsmiths.

Perhaps so, they will achieve the best of both worlds.

This is a stainless steel Walther PPK / S that supports modern JHP ammunition, no breakage of parts, reliable, with the longest shank that you introduced as an S&W upgrade, very well finished when polished and adjusted by German Waltther Master Gunsmiths.
And the best at an affordable, competitive price.

In my opinion and that of the most outstanding gunsmiths and experts in the world, they qualify as the best quality of the Walther PP Series, which have been manufactured throughout history and throughout the world, are the German pristines of Waltherfabrik Zella Melhis and the Franco-German Waltherfabrik ULM.


Luck !






















In fact, you can find good examples online, of passionate people who have bought these good pistols at ridiculous prices and have customized them in such a way that only an expert could recognize it as a non-Walther PPK / S.
 

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...Waltherfabrik Zella Melhis and the Franco-German Waltherfabrik ULM...
Waffenfabrik Walther Zella-Mehlis, Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do. There must be order ;)
What is Franco-German? Manurhin = France, Walther = German
 

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Let's agree that the true explanation, we may never know, at least not today. So both you and I can only speculate motives.
I fully agree on that. We simply can't know it for sure. But certain attempts to explain seem more conclusive than others.

By the way [the FÉG] is a good product, and that is why it has sold well, for years, in the USA. so. Why pay more for the same gun, because it only says "Walther PPK / E"? Well I think that only some distracted consumer and some collectors, as you mention, have almost everything and want to add that piece as a "rarity".
I agree on the first sentence. I own two FÉG pistols. But we know that many buyers rely on certain brands and labels. It's called brand awareness and that's the reason why people even pay more for products made at the same factory where the non-branded low-cost alternatives come from. In my region, the PPK/E is a rare bird. That's the simple reason why I'd pay more for it. Until this day I was unable to find one to buy.

But the American consumer, is very intelligent and enlightened in the field of arms, for the common consumer, they will not pay more for the same pistol.
I'd say that the average American consumer doesn't want to pay more. Basically the same is true for the average European buyer too. But because the US gun market is much larger and much more important than any other, the Americans have a good chance to get a gun for less money than in the rest of the world. It doesn't even depend on where the gun is manufactured.

In 2000, when the Walther PPK / E was released, the price of a Walther PP Series was around $ 750 in Europe and the price of the Walther PPK / E was $ 550. twice the value of the same pistol sold under the FEG brand on the American market.
In my region at that time, a genuine Ulm PP series gun was almost unsaleable. Either much more expensive products were bought (a nice SIG P210 cost about three times as much) or those at the same price level with more powerful calibres and bigger magazine capacity (e.g. Beretta) or newer polymer guns (Glock most notably).

They are legions of thousands of people around the world who wish to have a new Walther PP Series, so a relaunch makes sense.
The "thousands of people around the world" seem all to live in the US. Believe me, in Europe the new Fort Smith models will be sold in very small numbers only – once they are available which isn't the case until today.

In fact, you can find good examples online, of passionate people who have bought these good pistols at ridiculous prices and have customized them in such a way that only an expert could recognize it as a non-Walther PPK / S.
You're referring to the PPK/E?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
[CITA = "Balogh, publicación: 1245911, miembro: 13374"]
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo en eso. Simplemente no podemos saberlo con certeza. Sin embargo, tenemos algunos intentos de explicar otros más concluyentes que otros.


Estoy de acuerdo con la primera oración. Tengo dos pistolas FÉG. Pero sabemos que muchos compradores confían en ciertas marcas y etiquetas. Se llama conocimiento de la marca y esa es la razón por la cual las personas incluso pagan más por los productos fabricados en la misma fábrica de donde provienen las alternativas de bajo costo sin marca. En mi región, el PPK / E es un ave rara. Esa es la razón simple por la que pagaría más por ello. Hasta este día no pude encontrar uno para comprar.


Yo diría que el consumidor estadounidense promedio no quiere pagar más. Básicamente, lo mismo es cierto para el comprador europeo promedio también. Pero debido a que el mercado de armas de EE. UU. Es mucho más grande y mucho más importante que cualquier otro, los estadounidenses tienen una buena oportunidad de obtener un arma por menos dinero que en el resto del mundo. Ni siquiera depende de dónde se fabrica el arma.


En mi región en ese momento, un arma de la serie Ulm PP genuina era casi imposible de vender. Se compra en productos mucho más caros (un buen SIG P210 cuesta aproximadamente tres veces más) o esos mismos niveles de precio con calibres más potentes y mayor capacidad de cargador (por ejemplo, Beretta) o pistolas de polímeros más nuevas (Glock más notablemente) .


Los "miles de personas en todo el mundo" parecen vivir en los Estados Unidos. Créame, en Europa, los nuevos modelos de Fort Smith se venden solo en cantidades muy pequeñas, una vez que están disponibles, lo que no es el caso hasta hoy.


¿Te refieres al PPK / E?
[/ CITAR]
[CITA = "Martin, publicación: 1245839, miembro: 15701"]
Waffenfabrik Walther Zella-Mehlis, Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm / Do. Debe haber orden;)
¿Qué es franco-alemán? Manurhin = Francia, Walther = Alemán
[/ CITAR]
[QUOTE = "Martin, publicación: 1245839, miembro: 15701"]
Waffenfabrik Walther Zella-Mehlis, Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm / Do. Debe haber orden;)
¿Qué es franco-alemán? Manurhin = Francia, Walther = Alemán
[/CITAR]
Waffenfabrik Walther Zella-Mehlis, Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm / Do. Debe haber orden ;)
¿Qué es el franco-alemán? Manurhin = Francia, Walther = Alemán
Estimado MARTIN, después de la II Guerra Mundial, Alemania le prohibió fabricar armas, por otro lado Francia, había estado ocupado durante la guerra, y la fábrica Manufrrance, estaba familiarizado con la tecnología alemana de producción. Por otro lado, la antigua fábrica Walther de Zella Melhis, despues de haber sido bombardeada bajo el asedio de Berlín, al fin de la guerra quedo bajo el territorio bajo la juridicción soviética. De mdoo que Walther firmó un contrato con Manurín en que Manurin le suministraba las partes maquinadas y Walther que abrio una nueva fábrica en ULM, Alemania Occidental, las armaba, les hizo el ajuste final y las grabaciones y les hizo el pulido azul exquisito tradicional de walther Si bien estas pistolas son fabricadas por ULM Alemania, en realidad, son pistolas de fabricación compartida entre Manurín francia y Walther ULM Alemania. Esto explica porque las pistolas ULM, tienen en general un acabado azul diferente en el chasis que en deslizante. Esta producción de Walther PP Series, son en realidad franco alemanas, aunque oficialmente, son ULM, Alemanas.

Paralelamente, Manuhrin francia, bajo licencia, fabricaba la Walther PP Series, también fabricaba enteramente las pistolas pero estas eran comercializadas no como Walhter sino bajo la marca Manhurin, por lo que no tenía el control de calidad y ajuste de los Maestros Armeros alemanes de Walther ni el fino acabado azul de Walther ULM. Sin embargo, son pistolas de excelente calidad, pero en opinion de los expertos, no igualan a las fabricadas en manera conjunta entre Walther ULM y Manhurin. o sea producción Franco Alemana.

En sintesis
  • Período 1029 a 1945 = fabricación alemana = marca Walther Sella Melhis = Excelente calidad y pulido azul
  • Período 1952 a 1986 = fabricación franco alemana = marca Walther ULM = Excelente calidad y pulido azul.
  • Período 1984 a 1986 = fabricación francesa = marca Manhurin = Destacada calidad y pulido azul.
  • Período 1987 a 1999 = fabricación alemana = marca Walther ULM = Muy buen calidad y pulido azul.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
[QUOTE = "Balogh, publicación: 1245911, miembro: 13374"]
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo en eso. Simplemente no podemos saberlo con certeza. Pero ciertos intentos de explicar parecen más concluyentes que otros.


Estoy de acuerdo con la primera oración. Tengo dos pistolas FÉG. Pero sabemos que muchos compradores confían en ciertas marcas y etiquetas. Se llama conocimiento de la marca y esa es la razón por la cual las personas incluso pagan más por los productos fabricados en la misma fábrica de donde provienen las alternativas de bajo costo sin marca. En mi región, el PPK / E es un ave rara. Esa es la razón simple por la que pagaría más por ello. Hasta este día no pude encontrar uno para comprar.


Yo diría que el consumidor estadounidense promedio no quiere pagar más. Básicamente, lo mismo es cierto para el comprador europeo promedio también. Pero debido a que el mercado de armas de EE. UU. Es mucho más grande y mucho más importante que cualquier otro, los estadounidenses tienen una buena oportunidad de obtener un arma por menos dinero que en el resto del mundo. Ni siquiera depende de dónde se fabrica el arma.


En mi región en ese momento, un arma de la serie Ulm PP genuina era casi imposible de vender. Se compraron productos mucho más caros (un buen SIG P210 cuesta aproximadamente tres veces más) o aquellos al mismo nivel de precio con calibres más potentes y mayor capacidad de cargador (por ejemplo, Beretta) o pistolas de polímero más nuevas (Glock más notablemente).


Los "miles de personas en todo el mundo" parecen vivir en los Estados Unidos. Créame, en Europa los nuevos modelos de Fort Smith se venderán solo en cantidades muy pequeñas, una vez que estén disponibles, lo que no es el caso hasta hoy.


¿Te refieres al PPK / E?
[/ CITAR]

Estimado Balohg, No me refiero a la PPK / E, sino a los FEG modelo R61 y modelo PA63, he visto apasionados por estas armas, que le han puesto amor, desarmándolas todas, mejorando sus pulidos y dándoles un hermoso acabado azul. Cambiando sus toscos grips por grips de madera de cocobolo o nogal. y créame que más de uno de nosotros, creeríamos estar frente a una Walther PPK / S.
Si buscas en la Web, encontrarás buenos ejemplos de estas personalizaciones.

Créame Señor Balogh, que después de leer la pasión que ha puesto en defender el modelo PPK / E, deseo que tenga suerte y pueda obtener uno.

Mi papá me solía decir con sabiduría "Cuando algo es para ti, será para ti" es sorprendente, mágico, como obra el Universo a nuestro favor, cuando anhelamos algo.

A veces buscamos y buscamos algo y no se nos presenta nunca, pero la vida nos presenta algo distinto que con frecuencia es mejor.

Y a veces se nos presentan oportunidades maravillosas casi sin esfuerzo, solo hay que estar atento a las señales.

Es maravilloso ver las Personas que como tú y yo valoramos Obras Maestras y su historia. Yo no menosprecio la PPK / E, solo pretendo compartir mi humilde experiencia y darle su justo y simple lugar, un modelo que creo, bueno como toda pistola FEG.
Muy sobre valorado, para mi y para algunos expertos, la Walther PPK / E es una FEG, disfrazada de Walther; y del que no encontré en la web, cuando tuve la oportunidad de decidir la compra, casi información inexistente.

Le deseo señor Balogh, la mejor fortuna y que pueda cruzarse con un PPK/E NIB. para su compra, si es su felicidad.
 

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Die Tatsache, dass Manurhin Walther/Ulm mit Teilen für die Walther PP Serie beliefert hat, macht aus der deutschen Waffenschmiede Walther kein frankodeutsches Unternehmen.

PS: Manurhin = 1952 - 1986
 
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Estimado MARTIN, después de la II Guerra Mundial, Alemania le prohibió fabricar armas, por otro lado Francia, había estado ocupado durante la guerra, y la fábrica Manufrrance, estaba familiarizado con la tecnología alemana de producción. Por otro lado, la antigua fábrica Walther de Zella Melhis, despues de haber sido bombardeada bajo el asedio de Berlín, al fin de la guerra quedo bajo el territorio bajo la juridicción soviética. De mdoo que Walther firmó un contrato con Manurín en que Manurin le suministraba las partes maquinadas y Walther que abrio una nueva fábrica en ULM, Alemania Occidental, las armaba, les hizo el ajuste final y las grabaciones y les hizo el pulido azul exquisito tradicional de walther Si bien estas pistolas son fabricadas por ULM Alemania, en realidad, son pistolas de fabricación compartida entre Manurín francia y Walther ULM Alemania. Esto explica porque las pistolas ULM, tienen en general un acabado azul diferente en el chasis que en deslizante. Esta producción de Walther PP Series, son en realidad franco alemanas, aunque oficialmente, son ULM, Alemanas.

Paralelamente, Manuhrin francia, bajo licencia, fabricaba la Walther PP Series, también fabricaba enteramente las pistolas pero estas eran comercializadas no como Walhter sino bajo la marca Manhurin, por lo que no tenía el control de calidad y ajuste de los Maestros Armeros alemanes de Walther ni el fino acabado azul de Walther ULM. Sin embargo, son pistolas de excelente calidad, pero en opinion de los expertos, no igualan a las fabricadas en manera conjunta entre Walther ULM y Manhurin. o sea producción Franco Alemana.

En sintesis
  • Período 1929 a 1945 = fabricación alemana = marca Walther Sella Melhis = Excelente calidad y pulido azul
  • Período 1952 a 1986 = fabricación franco alemana = marca Walther ULM = Excelente calidad y pulido azul.
  • Período 1984 a 1986 = fabricación francesa = marca Manhurin = Destacada calidad y pulido azul.
  • Período 1987 a 1999 = fabricación alemana = marca Walther ULM = Muy buen calidad y pulido azul.
Alexia, you know a lot about Walther guns for sure. And it's nice to see that even today these fine vintage guns are still estimated by so many gun enthusiasts in all parts of the world.

But things are little more complex than you think. For example, your table above isn't only short but wrong in some cases too. A Walther PP made in 1943 isn't half as nice as a PP made some years ago for example. You also have to be more careful when it comes to names of products, companies and towns. For example, check the correct spelling of Manurhin and Ulm. And it's a simple fact that forum members like Martin and me have the advantage to read original Walther documents without any language barrier.

So don't get upset, but stay active in this forum. The forum lives from its users. And if you show us some nice photos of your 1938 Zella-Mehlis PP someday, we're happy to look at them.
 

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Créame Señor Balogh, que después de leer la pasión que ha puesto en defender el modelo PPK / E, deseo que tenga suerte y pueda obtener uno.
Mi papá me solía decir con sabiduría "Cuando algo es para ti, será para ti" es sorprendente, mágico, como obra el Universo a nuestro favor, cuando anhelamos algo.
...
Le deseo señor Balogh, la mejor fortuna y que pueda cruzarse con un PPK/E NIB. para su compra, si es su felicidad.
Thank you. Sometime I'll find one for sure.

By the way, I don't defend the PPK/E. It's much simpler. If I ever manage to buy a PPK/E, it's a logical act of unlimited obsession. Being a vintage Walther fan is like a disease; it's impossible to escape addiction. :sneaky:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Die Tatsache, dass Manurhin Walther/Ulm mit Teilen für die Walther PP Serie beliefert hat, macht aus der deutschen Waffenschmiede Walther kein frankodeutsches Unternehmen.

PS: Manurhin = 1952 - 1986
Sehr geehrter Herr Martin, die Walther-Fabrik war schon immer deutsch und ich bin stolz darauf.

Die Pistolen der Walther PP-Serie aus den Jahren 1952 bis 1986 wurden jedoch gemeinsam von der französischen Manufrance-Fabrik in der Nähe des Rheins MANURHIN und der deutschen Walther-Fabrik in Ulm hergestellt.

Das Produkt der Pistolen sind also deutsch-französisch. Dies ist eine nachgewiesene historische Tatsache.

Darüber hinaus wurde fast die gesamte Pistole von Manufrance hergestellt, nur das endgültige Finish und die Qualitätskontrolle wurden von Walther bereitgestellt, das heißt, um ehrlich zu sein, sie waren eher französisch als deutsch.

Ich wünsche dir alles Gute und danke dir für die Teilnahme an diesem Thread, Martin.

Viel Glück
 

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Discussion Starter #18
[
Alexia, you know a lot about Walther guns for sure. And it's nice to see that even today these fine vintage guns are still estimated by so many gun enthusiasts in all parts of the world.

But things are little more complex than you think. For example, your table above isn't only short but wrong in some cases too. A Walther PP made in 1943 isn't half as nice as a PP made some years ago for example. You also have to be more careful when it comes to names of products, companies and towns. For example, check the correct spelling of Manurhin and Ulm. And it's a simple fact that forum members like Martin and me have the advantage to read original Walther documents without any language barrier.

So don't get upset, but stay active in this forum. The forum lives from its users. And if you show us some nice photos of your 1938 Zella-Mehlis PP someday, we're happy to look at them.
Dear Mr. Balogh, thank you for your compliment. It is a pleasure to dialogue in this forum with expert people who value and know the history and benefits of good weapons, such as the Walther PP Series.

You are correct in pointing out that the 1943 Walther PP Series are of lower quality than the ULM. But not only from 1943, but all the production from the end of the war. The final production of the war, functionally, was still impeccable, but the finishing and polishing was rough, even as you surely know, the grip sets were made of pressed wood, due to the scarcity of bakelite and plastic for other military production priorities. Despite this the steels and the performance of the parts was impeccable.

Dear I do not intend to teach, only share knowledge and experiences and learn the effects of enjoying sharing our knowledge and passion to shed light on our passion that becomes so interesting because it is full of mysteries, stories and forgetfulness of the times that together enjoying trying to decipher.

I add that there are testimonies of allied soldiers who arrived at the moment of taking over the factories and changed their souls as cigars and chocolates to the poor workers in need and with fear for pistols armed with loose pieces and without evidence marks that the soldiers carried as spoils of war. Unfortunately these practices, I do not doubt that they existed, they are not about good and bad, but about human misery and the horrors of war.

War, as it happens in the moments of greatest human crisis, like now the pandemic and the consequent quarantine, brings out the best in the human being and the worst. We see true acts of heroism, of humanism, sensitivity, empathy and sensitivity, and we also see human misery.

Hoping to satisfy your curiosity and request, I share the photos of the civilian pristine Walhter, which perhaps you can add valuable comments that will be appreciated.

Fraternal greeting.
Luck !
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Sehr geehrter Herr Martin, die Walther-Fabrik war schon immer deutsch und ich bin stolz darauf.

Die Pistolen der Walther PP-Serie aus den Jahren 1952 bis 1986 wurden jedoch gemeinsam von der französischen Manufrance-Fabrik in der Nähe des Rheins MANURHIN und der deutschen Walther-Fabrik in Ulm hergestellt.

Das Produkt der Pistolen sind also deutsch-französisch. Dies ist eine nachgewiesene historische Tatsache.
Ich finde es ausgesprochen höflich, dass Du in Deutsch antwortest. Du solltest vll. die Übersetzungssoftware noch optimieren.
Richtig: Die PP-Serie aus Nachkriegsfertigung wurde bis 1986 als Walthers Lizenzprodukt zusammen mit Manurhin gefertigt, die komplette Entwicklung oblag also Walther. Dabei hat Manurhin den größeren Fertigungsanteil. Nun beschreibst Du den Walther-Anteil so, als ob Du daneben gestanden hast. Deshalb will ich mir nicht anmaßen, Dir hier zu widersprechen.
Genauso hat Walther übrigens die Pistolet P1 (P38) entwickelt und für Manurhin gefertigt.
 

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Alexia, thanks for sharing the photos of your 1936 Zella-Mehlis PP. The gun seems to be in a good shape as I can see, and even the cardboard box looks quite good. I understand that you enjoy this masterpiece of gun.
 
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