[RI_Shooter]

I have owned Walther PPK/S and PPK since 1976 when I bought a
PPK/s .22 a few days after I turned 21. (Still have it). I have never
owned a .32 PP and have always wanted one.

My question is this: Does the .32 PP have rimlock problems with
modern .32 hollowpoints? Do you have to use just FMJ?

 

[153]

Rimlock...... sounds like rimrock?

A term I have never heard applied to a firearm. Prehaps you could offer a description?

 

[mm6mm6]

I'm totally in the dark also....

 

[banddr2]

My question is this: Does the .32 PP have rimlock problems with
modern .32 hollowpoints?

Yes. The modern hp .32 is shorter than the older .32s to accomidate the Seacamp. I have always had rimlock problems in my pp and ppk with Speer Gold dot and Silvertips. And when the rim locks, it locks up good, it is hard to clear the weopon. I only use fmj, since the overall length of the round is longer, and never have a problem with rimlock. A while back I found some hollowpoint ammo in 32 that has the old longer cartridge length, they are made by that S American company that I cannot remember the name of right now, I had to special order them. But really, I have found that 32s hp's do not expand anyway, I just stick with fmj for better penetration. Really I only use 32 for target shooting, not self defense anyway.

 

[Deputy]

A possible soultion to this rimlock problem is the use of Glaser or Extreme Shock ammo. They use prefragmented bullets that have a round nose for good feeding. I haven't gotten out to the range yet to test Extreme Shock in .32ACP, but it worked flawlessly in my P-99 in 9MM. There is also the possibility that the newer S&W Walther pistols are made to feed hollowpoints better. Just guessing there.

Exrtreme Shock:

Glaser:

Dep



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[153]

I am still wondering what the heck "rimlock" is. Is this a condition where the rims of the cartridge catch on something or each other?

My understanding is that the Silvertip .32 has the same size case as all other .32 ACP ammo, the bullet is shorter - and consequently the LOA.

My .32 PPK will not work at all with the Silvertip. It likes FMC and works really well with that. Ran a box of Remington FMC through mine two weeks ago without a hitch.

 

[banddr2]

I am still wondering what the heck "rimlock" is. Is this a condition where the rims of the cartridge catch on something or each other?

QUOTE]

Rim lock is when cartridge #2 moves ahead of cartridge #1 in the magazine. The rim is slightly larger diameter than the case, so when the slide cycles forward, #1 gets hung up on #2, which the result is a slide that is locked half closed and unable to feed #1 into the chamber. This condition usually only happens in loaded magazines that are not shot right away, and the jiggling of the magazine while the gun is being carried allowes the cartridges to get out of alignment. If you are target practicing and loading and shooting right away, it rarely happens. I believe this only happens with 32 since the rim is a larger diameter than the rest of the cartridge, why they don't change that, I don't know. Hope that all makes sense

 

[153]

banddr2,

Thanks!!!

 

[Deputy]

Well then disregard my suggestion about ammo. Does this "rimlock" (I've NEVER experienced it) happen with FMJ ammo too???



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[banddr2]

I have never had it happen with fmj, because the overall length of case and bullet are long enough that round #2's rim cannot get in front of round #1. I think rim lock came about when winchester started making shorter rounds for the seacamp and other mfg's followed for the Guardian. On the Kel Tec forum there is alot of talk and solutions for rim lock, because it is a problem for the p32

 

[Deputy]

Well has ANYONE ever experienced this problem with their Walthers??? And what about ammo like Glaser or Extreme Shock? Those bullets aren't FMJ or hollowpoint. Do only certain guns experience this malfunction (like Kel Tec) or is the problem widespread? I wonder about Walthers because in a recent poll among PPK PPK/S users on this forum the majority of folks were using hollowpoint ammo in their Walthers and there was no mention of rim lock until this thread appeared. Are we maybe worrying about something that isn't a problem to Walthers??? I find it interesting that many of us had never heard of rim lock until this thread.

Dep



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[Deputy]

BTW...I found out that the .32 auto is NOT the only semi-auto cartridge with a raised rim. The .38 Super also has a raised rim and I haven't heard squat about them having any rim lock problems. Oh yeah...the .22 also has a raised rim and I sure don't hear about rim lock on ANY auto pistol from them. I think this may just be a problem for certain pistols. Not a problem for ALL .32 autos.

Here's some feedback on the rim lock problem. It may be a non-problem for Walthers and other pistols...

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-29616.html



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[banddr2]

Well has ANYONE ever rxperienced this problem with their Walthers???

Maybe just me, I had it happen severely in my PP with Speer Gold Dot in .32, also had it happen when I used to have a Kel Tec p32. Never had any problem with fmj.

BTW, what happend to the OP, he is the one who brought this up to begin with? There must be some reason he had concerns.

 

[Deputy]

Maybe just me, I had it happen severely in my PP with Speer Gold Dot in .32, also had it happen when I used to have a Kel Tec p32. Never had any problem with fmj.

BTW, what happend to the OP, he is the one who brought this up to begin with? There must be some reason he had concerns.

Good question band. Kinda makes me think he threw a hand grenade in here just to see what would happen. He only had one post and that's it. Very odd.
At any rate, once I get the Eagle grips on my PPK, I'll take it out and run some Silvertips and Gold Dots through it. But from what I read, the boxy magazine that doesn't hold the cartridges securely on the Kel Tec .32 is more the problem than the ammo. Also the angle the cartridges sit in the magazine seems to be important.



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[153]

Rimlock.....?

Its real early in the morning, so lets see if my brain is fuly awake!

I had never even heard of it, before this post. My first concern is that in this fellows pistol as the cartridges are being bumped about in the magazine the bullets are getting pushed back further into the case, making the problem worse. But I would imagine that this is a possibility with rounds shorter than the standard LOA for the .32 auto cartridge.

My understanding is that this happens only with the top cartridge in the magazine. The rim of the top cartridge catches in the extractor groove of the round underneath it. Given the amount of force the slide is moving with I would doubt the ability of the rim to groove "connection" to hold against the momentum of the slide and its spring. Seems this is more likely to happen when cycling the slide "by hand".

The ,22 cannot "rimlock" since it has no extractor groove, so there is nothing for the rim to hang up on. My expierence with several Walther PP and PPK/S .22's though is that when their magazines are loaded with ten rounds, the top rounds are pointed down due to the stacking of the rims on the .22 cartridges. When so loaded the first couple of rounds out of the magazine drive into the feed ramp and jam up the pistol.

For that reason I always load my .22 PP with seven or eight rounds and it runs perfectly. It also prefers the CCI Stinger to any other .22 Round. Interestingly my Colt Goverment .22 conversion unit also works well with the Stinger, but jams with just about everything else.

 

[Deputy]

153: This is such a weird phenomena that I can't even picture what it looks like!!!!
I figured the rim of one upper round (like a .22) would overlap the one under it (be behind it in other words) and that would cause the bullet UNDER the one that should be feeding in the chamber to somehow pop up and jam things. As with you, I have NEVER experienced this after shooting HP ammo in .38 Super as well as .32 auto. I have heard of the rounds in some mags pointing in the wrong direction (down instead of up) and that causing jams. This is mainly the fault of poor magazine design than anything else. I've even heard of it happening in some 1911A1 mags. It has pretty much been eliminated in more modern magazine designs, though.

I also agree that the rimlock thing would be more likely to occur in cycling by hand than by the movement of the slide after firing. The amount of rim "hanging down" on a .32 auto is so small it's almost invisible to the naked eye. I would think it much more likely the rim would simply "ride over" the rim it contacts. To be honest, if banddr2 hadn't said that it happened to him, I would have dismissed this whole thing as just the rantings of anti-.32auto people. That, or the piss poor design of Kel Tec guns and their owners looking for an excuse for the malfunctions.

Dep



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[Ramoel]

The PP magazine was designed for normal length .32 cartridges which at that time were the 71 grain FMJ. The problem only occurs with cartridges that are shorter than the standard FMJ. Their length allows them to slide front to back in the magazine, sometimes enough to catch the rim on another cartridge. The silvertips, gold dots etc. are shorter. It's a common failure on the Kel-Tec and they even sell a spacer that fits in the magazine to prevent the problem. I've shot many shorter rounds on my .32 PPK without a problem but I suppose it's possible. The PP's have a different angle to the magazine also. I believe the Kel-Tec is almost vertical which makes the problem worse.

 

[Deputy]

Ron: With so many people using HP ammo in their PPK and PPK/S, as shown in the forum poll, I would think there would be a bunch of posts about this. But this thread is the ONLY one. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or never has happened, just saying I find it odd that there are no posts of this on the forum. Is it only a problem in the PP??? I know the PPK was also designed for FMJ ammo and we don't see any complaints for that pistol either.



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[153]

I can offer that the Seecamp is made with a spacer in the magazine, since it is designed to fire only the Silvertip, and the magazines are made long enough to take standard .32 ACP.

I don't know why this "rimlock" would happen in a PP and not a PPK, since the only dimensions that differ on the two pistols relate to the external size of the pieces, not the guts ...which are identical.

As Dep points out, and I was too sleepy to realise, we are talking very small differences, it doesn't seem likely that "rimlock" could happen with any decent firearm. The only thing that ever happened when I tried the Silvertips in my PPK was the cartridge jammed against the feed ramp ...no rimlock!

I am beginning to wonder if the original poster was just making this up as a joke, and is having a laugh at our expense .....

 

[Deputy]

153: Maybe it's a Kel Tec spy!!!

Seriously, I did a search and they actually do have instructions for how to make a special gizmo that you insert in a Kel Tec magazine so that the HP ammo doesn't shift around. Sound like a Rube Goldberg fix? It sure does to me!
I think before I would bent up a piece of piano wire to insert into a magazine to make it work, I'd be at the gun store either getting a refund, trading the POS in on a Walther, or shipping it BACK to Kel Tec with a nasty complaint letter.



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