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Nonetheless, the P7 is a weapon that, compared to other pistols, is more sensitive and, above all, much more dangerous for incorrect operation, see my post # 9 in this thread.
As I have already reported elsewhere, I also had to experience that personally. Thank goodness this incident ended without harming myself.
Hence my personal assessment of the P7: Never again!:devilish:
There is no substitute for knowing what you are doing.

The P7 is kind of scooped out of the holster without a finger on the trigger and then squeeze cocked as it's brought on target.

It should not be squeezed cocked with the trigger pulled while carried upholstered in a pocket.

The operation of the gun is different than any other gun out there.

It's a mechanically safe gun but if someone is going to carry it, it behooves them to practice with the thing until the manual of arms is ingrained and instinctive.

I think it was Mas Ayoob back in the day who said the P7 was a great pistol but a jealous mistress. Like a jealous mistress, it is a thing that demands attention. Like a jealous mistress, it is something best messed with to the exclusion of others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
During the official use of the P5, P6 and P7, the P7 proved to be the most unsafe pistol. A quote translated into English from the article about the P7 in German Wikipedia:
"In Lower Saxony in the 1990s several people died due to incorrect operation. This was favored by a constructive property of the weapon: With the P7, a shot is released when the trigger and cocking handle are pressed at the same time; the weapon does not differentiate which lever should be pressed at first. This led to several accidents in stressful situations, when police officers reflexively not only pulled the cocking handle, but simultaneously pulled the trigger with their index finger, injuring and killing colleagues and suspects.
The German Weapons Journal reported on this in 1996 and published an article how to change the P7 so that the trigger is inoperative if it is pulled with the grip uncocked and after pulling the grip the trigger is only activated again after releasing it, such as after a shot. It is not known whether and how many weapons have been rebuilt accordingly. "
Own comment: The HK P7 has never been modified accordingly.
You know, at first I was thinking, “well, it’s a different system, so you have to train to become accustomed to that system.”

But when I think of the “muscle-mechanics” involved... drawing and squeezing... I could see how you’d (potentially) have a greater tendency to squeeze the trigger along with the front strap.

Still doesn’t change the fact that the P7 is fascinating and interesting. But... I could see the potential for human error, possibly, increasing.
 

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You know, at first I was thinking, “well, it’s a different system, so you have to train to become accustomed to that system.”

But when I think of the “muscle-mechanics” involved... drawing and squeezing... I could see how you’d (potentially) have a greater tendency to squeeze the trigger along with the front strap.

Still doesn’t change the fact that the P7 is fascinating and interesting. But... I could see the potential for human error, possibly, increasing.
It's imperative the trigger finger NOT be inside the trigger guard during the draw.
This applies to striker fired handguns also.
I found the NJSP incident where an officer used his P7 to break out a vehicle window while his finger was on the trigger interesting. The P7 was blamed for shooting the victim in the head.🤪
 

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But when I think of the “muscle-mechanics” involved... drawing and squeezing... I could see how you’d (potentially) have a greater tendency to squeeze the trigger along with the front strap.
But don't we already squeeze the grip on the draw anyway ?

What I was taught was to first get a firm grip on the piece, and then withdraw it from the holster. I don't see how squeezing the cocking lever is any different than getting that good, firm grip that you would apply to any handgun.
 

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I've only used the P7 as a range gun personally.

I've spoken with several NJSP and Parks Police officers who carried P7s in the '80s and '90s. They speak positively of their time carrying P7s. NJSP officers regularly presented P7s in the line of duty. Not may reports of negligent discharge I'm aware of.

Edit; Can anyone provided some links of info in US LEO negligent discharge of P7s. The NJ State Police, Utah State Police, and US Parks Police were the major agencies that utilized the HK P7s. There may be a few smaller agencies that also used the P7.

The NYPD issues with both hammer fire DA/SA and striker fired (Glock) firearms is well known, no need to post those issues.🙄

On the topic....

The P7 is well known for accidental discharges when drawing the gun under stress from a holster especially when used by the police. The P7 was also known for breaking its firing pins and in one incident, I believe it was in Maryland a cop got killed in a fire fight because of this. Also because of all the accidental discharges HK was forced to put a much tougher spring in the squeeze cocker which resulted in hand squeeze fatigue if you were trying to hold the gun cocked for too long a time or trying to shoot accurate groups at the range in slow fire. The P7/P13 were failed designs for a variety of reasons including not being reliable with all types of ammo, even factory ammo, and definitely handloads with the wrong powder burning rate.
 

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So, it sounds like a training issue.
Finger inside the trigger guard while drawing the firearm. Wouldn't a Glock or most any striker gun fire in this scenario? 🤔

As I started prior, the approximate 1.5 lbs of force required to hold a P7 in the ready state is not excessive IMHO.
I bet many would agree with that too.
 

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Basic preliminary remark: Regardless of the weapon, I have to practice and train how to use it safely.
1) With the P7 especially, but with many other striker-fired pistols as well, I have to train to keep my finger off the trigger when pulling the pistol. Otherwise there is a risk of unintentional release of the shot.
2) With a traditional DA / SA pistol, the danger described above does not exist at all. I have to train to fire the first shot accurately with the heavier trigger weight of the DA trigger.
My personal conclusion from 1) and 2):
I prefer to use my training time for 2), accurate shot with DA.
Why?
If I make a mistake in 1) despite training, there is an immediate risk of unintentional injury or death.
With 2) I always fire the first shot with full intent and there is only a risk of not hitting my target exactly.
For me the danger of an unintentional triggering of a second shot with SA with a DA / SA pistol is considered to be significantly lower than the unintentional triggering of the first shot with a striker-fired pistol.
From the safety point of view, for me the danger in 1) is always immanent and therefore absolutely decisive: Never a striker-fired pistol unless it has a DAO trigger.
Final remark: These are my very personal conclusions and opinions, which I won't give up, because anyone who has almost shot himself in the foot with a striker-fired pistol in the middle of the woods will certainly understand me.
I am not shrinking from a discussion that will probably follow, but I will not take part for the reasons outlined above, as it is pointless for me.
 

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I agree entirely.
Every individual has to weigh the pros/cons while choosing their EDC/defensive handgun.
Some like a manual safety, yet the possibility of "sitting duck" due to inadvertent activation exists.
Some prefer DA/SA, yet if a lapse in training occurs, the accuracy of the "first shot" suffers.
It all comes down to personal choice, and training.

I switched from a P227 (45acp DA/SA) to a PPQ 45 around 5 years ago. This was caused by two things, not ranging every few week, and recognizing my DA shot placement was not as accurate as I wanted. IMHO, there is great value in accurate "first shot" placement. So much value that I'm willing to EDC a striker handgun.
 
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