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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I have an old KK-Match rifle from 1985 that I have been shooting small bore target with for the last couple of years. I have been thinking about shooting bench rest with it this year and so took it to a gunsmith today to make sure everything is in order. He found an issue with the open sight I'm presently using - the clicks are not consistent in size. Some clicks are twice as large as other clicks! It's also not repeatable - a click left then a click right will end up at a different place. I wondered if something like this might be the case as I sometimes have trouble correcting my point of aim.

Where I am (New Zealand) Walter parts are rare (unobtainable for the most part), but I'm wondering if the sight is repairable. I can send it overseas if need be. It seems a shame to throw away what I'm sure is otherwise an OK sight - plus it has neat colour filters and polarisation filters and cool stuff. :)

I also found a parts diagram for a current Walter sight and I'm wondering if anyone knows if the new parts might fit my old sight. I'm wondering if I replaced parts #12 and #13 in the diagram that might actually be all that's needed. Functionally the diagram of the new sight appears very much like my old sight. Buying in some new parts and swapping with the old would be even better that sending the sight away.

Thoughts appreciated. I'll see if I can attach the photos now...
 

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Well,

I took a few of those pesky diopter sights apart, mainly Anschütz. Your Gehmann adjustable iris and colour filter can be taken off and put on another Walther or Anschütz sight, as well as the "Gegenlichtblende".

My guess is that the tiny ball bearings (part#30) are bad, or their carrier #11. I would take it apart and inspect the parts carefully under a magnifier. When you take the sights apart, it is a good idea to insert it into a clear plastic bag and disassemble it in there. Any parts underspring pressure will stay in the bag.

Once the culprits are identified, you should contact Walther in Ulm for the required parts.
 

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Sights for Walthers

Hello Martinv,

similar situation here in the US - Walther sights & parts are scarce. Accordingly a lot of us shoot both our Anschutz & Walther vintage rifles with whatever is available, mostly Anschutz sights in my case.

If you are not required to use Walther sights on your KKM, you could use any of several Anschutz rear sights with an 11mm rcvr top mount: 6702, 6705, 6802, or 6805. And then there are the Kimber 82G rear sights - which seem to be an Australian-made copy of the vintage Anschutz 6705 (or 6702?)

Any of these sights might be easier for you to obtain than a Walther, from a gun show or by mail order. I hope that there may be a solution for you from other 11 mm sights. ;)

-- hhguns --
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Update on sight disassembly

Thanks for the replies.

Thinking and researching things a bit more I'm tempted to buy a new sight like the Gehman 590 and then take my iris and bits over to the new sight.

http://http://www.bangontarget.co.nz/client/products/details/590/product_details.html

Tonight I decided to disassemble the Walther sight. I really liked the idea of disassembling inside the plastic bag! I once spent two hours on my knees in the garage when I lost a ball bearing... (didn't find it either). So anyway, there are some differences between my sight and the exploded diagram photo I uploaded. Three grub screws hold on the turret, easy (rear in first photo). The next bit involved unfastening a collar that holds the 'clicky bit' down (coming forward in first photo). I used a cir-clip remover. I guess at Walther they have a special tool with a six digit code to do that. :) Then removing that I found the part with all the indents as well as a single spring and ball bearing locator system (front of first photo). The ball bearing is 2mm diameter (measured) incidentally.
I checked the thickness of the rim all way round the part (second photo) with the indents and all the same (<+/-0.02mm). I thought it might have been worn more on one side giving the clicks a trend of a slightly different feel for each one as the turret turns. Hmm. The plunger part that screws inside the indent part doesn't seem to have play but it feels a little gritty. I thought I'd check the block the plunger presses in, photo three. I hoped to remove the iris assembly with a 10mm spanner but it was too thick to fit. :mad: Rather than file it down I left the iris in place and removed the cover in situ. I managed to get the block out (front of third photo).

Nothing jumps out at me as being wrong. I'm obviously not looking or measuring the right thing.

I am wondering about lubrication in a sight like this as I have no clue what to use, if anything. I'd like to clean everything, especially the gritty plunger screw and reassemble, but what lube to use??? I have some gun oil, but maybe nothing is better? Or perhaps a teflon grease? The gritty plunger screw appears to have oil or a light grease on it. Also what about the ball bearing in the indent part - no lubrication will surely mean wear, but it doesn't seem to have any at the moment.

Thoughts appreciated, or at least enjoy the photos of the inside of a Walther sight for what it's worth. :)
 

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A long time ago a thread about "the best" gun grease came up on Glocktalk and some folks recommended a white lithium grease that was being sold at Walmart for fishing reels. I have been using this on a lot of other fine mechanical equipment and never had a problem.

I had just used Ballistol when I fixed some Anschütz 6702 sights. Clean the sockets for the ball bearing carefully. Use a cleaner/degreaser and then reassemble the sights. If the ball bearing are out of whack, it will be next to impossible to measure that with anything but the very best equipment. Those things are minute.

Good luck.
 

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Alright,

meanwhile I stopped by at a gunclub in Germany and asked the guy in charge of the rifle program for the possible problem. He did not know but gave me Walther sight just like yours against a hefty ( but tax deductible:D) donation.

This is a newer kind of sight and if it does not keep zero, I figure it to be the spring at the left bottom, viewed from behind. If that spring is tired, it will not prevent movement under recoil, however slight the recoil may be.

Check it out.

Meanwhile this one will make a nice addition to my stockpile of match sights, bases, and other accessories.
 

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I have received a PM with a question about the different match sights and think that this will add a little to the knowledge base if I add it to this thread.



Below are the typical LG53/55 rear sights as they were used on the airrifles, made out of some zinc alloy and the diopters do not use the same threads as the newer models or Anschütz sights. The one on top is like Martin's sight from the mid 1980s. It is made out of aluminium and a simple construction.

The front sights are with the small Walther rail. The one at the bottom used the same hood and sight post as the KKJ sporter.

Then there is another version of rear sights that is more square, very well made out of steel and really solid that was used during the 60s and 70s, I guess. I sold mine to a shooter in Mexcio who needed it more than I for my collection.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Interesting. I don't know that my sight is moving between shots. I do know that one 'click' varies in amount on my sight. As long as I don't have to adjust my sight it seems to be consistent. It's when I start adjusting it that it seems to move in 'not quite what I'd expect' ways. A gunsmith said the front pivot point for such a design has to be absolutely precise.

In any case, with my trust clear plastic bag handy (which ended up catching the bearing on a number of times I might add), I cleaned and reassembled the sight. I used isopropyl alcohol to get everything clean, and used an air duster to remove any lint/dust. I put gun oil very sparingly on the plunger thread an nowhere else. The thread when turned no longer feels gritty. The 'clicks' still feel somewhat variable though.

Tomorrow night I'll have a chance to put it back on the rifle and fire it. Hopefully this week I will take the sight to the gunsmith again to see if my cleaning has helped (he can measure each click amount accurately).

I also found a thin 10mm spanner that will fit the neck on the iris setup, but it seemed to be on there quite tight. As in I didn't try any harder as I thought something might break off! Don't see where else I would undo the iris group though???
 

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Here is a pic of a sight I acquired a couple months ago. I would like to know more about it.
Hi Tom,

your sights look exactly like Martin's sights - or the ones that I have in my photo. They are from the mid 1980s and were on the match rifles of that period. They are excellent sights and not exactly common. Your's look great and I would think they are worth about $ 125 to $150. It is somewhat hard to put a price on such a rare item.

I personally prefer the Anschütz 6702 sights for their distinctive click adjustments over the Walther sights. Your sight can accept the same diopter attachments like the Anschütz, meaning that all Gehmann or Anschütz irises will fit. You can easily spend $225 on some nice iris:).

I got a drawer full of them and Anschütz 6702s. I love their quality - and what they can do for ageing eyes!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, after the cleaning and reassembly of the sight I took it back to the gunsmith. He measured the backlash and amount each click moved. It's no better than before. I think I'll buy a new sight, either Gehmann or Centra. We managed to get the iris assembly off - it was just screwed on very tight.

Thanks to all who replied.
 

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Martin,

remember that the sight is pressed into the ball bearings and kept in place only by that very weak spring. Before you give up, you should ask your gunsmith to see if he can exchange that spring for a slightly heavier one.

I noticed windeage resistance to be much firmer than elevation, is that what you noticed, too? It strikes me as a design fault to have one spring on the side to do both jobs...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Martin,

remember that the sight is pressed into the ball bearings and kept in place only by that very weak spring. Before you give up, you should ask your gunsmith to see if he can exchange that spring for a slightly heavier one.
By 'that very weak spring', I take it you mean the spring that works at a 45 degree angle? I wouldn't describe it as very weak on my sight. Not really firm but what I would think would be quite adequate. I believe this same system is used in telescopic sights for what it's worth.

The ball bearing is there on the elevation and windage simply to provide a 'click' as far as I can tell. They are held in place by much smaller springs, not the 45 degree spring. :confused:

I noticed windeage resistance to be much firmer than elevation, is that what you noticed, too? It strikes me as a design fault to have one spring on the side to do both jobs...
Before I cleaned it one was firmer than the other (I think windage was firmer - or rather elevation didn't have very pronounced clicks). After cleaning both seem very similar.

Later sights don't seem to use the front pivot and 45 degree spring system. Perhaps there is a reason for that.

I'm currently thinking over a Gehman 595 as replacement rear sight. Ideally I'd like to upgrade my front sight too, which is the one that takes different size inserts, to a variable one. Trouble is I think the mount for the front sight is (now) non-standard on these Walther rifles.

Also have to hope (cross fingers etc.) that the height with a new sight is OK and that I can still adjust the elevation to be on target.
 
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