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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
During the late spring and summer when we first heard about the FE and the impending black PPS I decided I would just be patient and wait until the black model got here in quantity.
Well, were into the 3rd week of Jan. 08 and there still are no black framed PPSs in any large quantity here in the US. Sure, there are some here and there, but not the quantity you would expect.

I have finally decided that to my mind, I am very dissapointed with Walther about this.
An example: HK announced the introduction of the new models, the P30 and the HK45 last year. There was a big buzz about them with the shooting community and it did take a while until there were any in quantity in the US, but once they hit the US, there are a lot more of them here than compared to the PPS. I also have a couple of HKs, neither of the new models, nor did I want one of them.

What the hell is it with Carl Walther that they can publicize this gun with commercials, updated websites, etc. but they can't get it into our hands?

I am still going to wait for one, but I refuse to bid on Gbroker or Auction Arms to get one at $650-$750. That is just plain silly to me since my two dealers quoted me prices at about $500. I saw one of the distributor's print items at the dealer's last week and the base price to them is about $400. Knowing this and given the prices I've been quoted you can understand why I won't pay the auction website top dollar prices.

I am thoroughly disgusted with Walther at this time. I feel that they really aren't geared up to produce this gun in the quantities needed to compete in our market.

One of our members always states somewhere in his posts(or is it in the PPS website?) that he is not a patient man. I respect him for his self knowledge.

Currently I have 5 PPKs so I can't say I am turning my back on Walthers, but they are due congratulations - they have turned me from a patient man to a very aggravated one!
 

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Malysh, I'm not sure you're blaming the right place. Actually, I don't think there is any real blame to go anywhere.

I can tell you this as a fact. I ordered up a S&W Model 40 and a Walther PPS.

Walther and S&W have a "strategic alliance" as their literature describes it. This "alliance" has to do with distribution. This is why "Smith & Wesson" is on the front right side of the PPS's slide. S&W has an excellent distribution system which Walther is now a part of.

I received my Model 40 in about one week.

The PPS took about 4 weeks.

I called to be sure the PPS didn't get lost in the paperwork or something. I was assured that it was coming, but that it took quite a bit longer to come from Germany than the Model 40 did, coming from Springfield, MA.

When I received the PPS, it was a 13XX serial number. That's pretty low. The gun was test fired on Oct. 17, 2007 according to the sealed cartridge case manilla envelope included with the gun.

Remember the way big industry works. I'll use Ford's Mustang as an example. Either the 2005 introduction of the new body style or even the current '08 Bullitt specialty model.

Tons of print advertising, every magazine available having car test reviews, tv commercials, etc. And dealers taking orders. But the advertising lead, used to create interest, is way ahead of the availablity of the actual cars. Yes, some people who don't understand that this is the way business is conducted (I'm not saying it's right, but it's worked just about forever) get mad that they can't have THAT car RIGHT NOW!

"But I saw it on tv and I read reviews in all the magazines! Everyone seems to have one except me!" This is what creates buzz and sells product.

I'm probably a bit guilty of making you feel this way. I received the PPS pictured in my posts here as a review gun. If I just got this low serial number gun, it's going to be awhile before they are commonly available.

The fact that my example performed flawlessly is a good sign. I think that Walther may have sorted out any glitches in their production so that when you get your PPS it will be perfect.

You also have to remember that certain stores will get PPS's quicker than others. Again, it's very similar to car dealerships. If store "A" has sold 100 Walther PPK's in the past year and store "B" sold 2, who do you think is going to get the first PPS's to get shipped over the Atlantic ocean?

Are you ordering from store A or store B?

Remember, patience is a virtue....

Be patient. When your PPS is in your hands, you're going to love it.
And it'll shoot like this:



 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
mm6mm6,

I liked the tone of your reply, well considered. You are a good guy and I gentleman.
I already knew about your Mod 40-1 from the S&W forums. Again, as on S&Wforums, good photos, mm6mm6!
We habituate the same websites and have similar tastes in handguns. I have Cent. Airweight #36XX and newly acquired 99% condition Centennial #176XX, plus a Mod 640. If I didn't have these 3 I am pretty sure I would have bought a new Centennial as well. So I am not surprised you got the Mod 40-1 sooner than the PPS.

I don't feel comparing S&Ws huge distribution network(granted) is an apt comparision to them carrying an imported pistol because they are not making the PPS in Springfield MA. or in the factory in ME. where they produce the PPKs and PPK/S. To me, it appears Walther is not able or in a rush to get these pistols on the US market. That is why I made the comparision to HK even though HK does their own distribution and marketing here.

This is still one of the longest time lags I've seen from a major producer and I guess nothing said in their defense is going to placate me because I plainly have reached the point where I'm pissed and just want to complain!

I agree with you about the promotional hype with big ticket items, be it a car or a gun, but again, I submit, this is becoming a travesty. It must be about 8 months since I started hearing about the PPS and we have too few in the US for that amount of lead time.

You guys that have P99s and variants: can you remember if it took this long after the pistol was announced before we started seeing them available in large numbers in the US? I have not bought a modern Walther model in years. All my PPKs are from 1968 or earlier.

I forgot to mention, great shooting, mm6mm6! I've handled a couple of FEs at Gander Mt(I never buy guns from them) and I agree with you I expect to get excellent groups with it. When I eventually get it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Correction: "I liked the tone of your reply, well considered. You are a good guy and a gentleman".
 

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unlike an automobile, a handgun goes to a large gun shop where it sits amongst a bunch of other handguns. a potential buyer will peruse the selection and choose the most suitable weapon based on a number of factors including availability, price, fit/finish, warranty, size, caliber, etc.

people go to the gun shop to pick out a gun. they want to see it and touch it and they feel better to buy one at the store rather than over the internet or ordering one and waiting until the apocalypse.

it would be most favourable if your handgun sits side by side with the competition where it could compete for and earn the business from that young lady looking to buy her first purse handgun to go along with the ccw permit she got last week.

she'll probably buy a kahr because when you lay eyes on those, they scream "buy me, buy me, buy me." lol
 

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Yeah I am waiting for one right now. My dealer said she talked to their distributor and expects it to be 2-3 weeks before they get one.
 

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i've been keeping tabs on waltherpistols.com, to see if they get any in. they still haven't received any, but that didn't stop them from jacking their price up $25 this week

frankly, i'm tired of waiting as well, and have decided to hold off until next year to buy one
 

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at least 4 on gunbroker right now
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
at least 4 on gunbroker right now
Thanks, UC. I will have to wait for my dealers to get them in. This is one gun I am not going to buy on the internet, especially Gunbroker. The sellers are jacking the prices up too high, or there are already a few guys bidding who just have to have it this week and will pay any amount. When I see $750 bids on a black framed PPS I can't possibly bid(actual observation of 1 of the auctions).
 

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FWIW:

Folks, I don't think Walther of Germany loses one second of sleep worrying about what the American firearms buyers think of it's marketing or advertising, or distribution setup..

I don't understand Walther's thinking concerning Walther firearms and the American market anyway because historically they do very little advertising here.. In fact my appreciation for the fine P99 series of pistols came about more by accident (reading the Walther forum & Shipwrecks posts) than anything else.

I'm amazed at how many issues of current firearms magazines DO have articles about the PPS.. It seems every one has a test report (favorable test report) on the PPS and I simply never saw such with the P99/AS pistols.

I see now there's even a short commercial (James Bondish) for the PPS..

Not that I think it makes one whit of difference, but the alignment of pistols made in Germany by Walther and imported (and warranted) by an American gun company seems to be at odds with logic.

I am a big fan of S&W Customer Service/Warranty Dept, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize S&W would rather sell MP's (or whatever) than Walthers.... I just don't see the incentive, other than whatever fees are paid to S&W by Walther for being the importer, for S&W to even CARE how many Walthers are imported or sold. Hard to get a company to get too excited about pushing the product of a direct competitor when it obviously reduces sales of your own product.

If you do any reading on the non-mfg. specific firearms forums (THR for example) you will find out that Walther pistols in general are not a big topic of conversation. Half the time you DO find a thread about Walthers it's either about PPK's, or the problem child P22 rimfire..

I don't think half of the American firearms buyers even understand the relationship between Walther and S&W.. It seems many people think just because your Walther has "Imported by S&W" on the barrel the firearm is MADE by Smith & Wesson.. Add to the fact that the previous all German PPK IS now owned and manufactured by Smith & Wesson, in the U.S. the relationship between Walther and S&W gets more cloudy to the average American gun person.

I take solice in the fact that I have managed to sift through the crap and confusion and wound up (thanks to ShipW) with a fantastic duo of Walther pistols in my P99/AS and P99c/AS, and now have managed to find myself a new PPS also.

My PPS has, so far, managed to be even better than I anticipated. It has been absolutely reliable, and very, very accurate at self defense range. The only downside I've found with the PPS is that it is SO good that I've been forced to replace my fine, but thicker, P99c/AS with it for cc...


It seems Walther is doing better with advertising on the PPS than previous pistols, so maybe supply and distribution will get better in time?

Despite the iffy conduct as to marketing, distribution of the parent Walther company I am exceedingly pleased with my PPS.. I know it looks like the results of the mating between a mongrel Glock and a quality Walther, but it "DO" shoot good. :D

Just personal opinion/YMMV

JPomeroy

 

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definitely not the worst in gun industry

I got lucky finding a very early FE at a gun shop last summer. Had I not, I would be itching for one for sure.

After I got big into Walthers, I started getting into ARs...which might be even more addicting than walthers. A few years ago at the NRA convention in milwaukee, I saw the Rock River Arms .308 AR. I wanted it then. That was in 2006, and I'm still waiting for the RRA .308!!!

My point is, I feel your pain.

Don
 

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PX15: I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to some consumers here in the US. It takes a bit of reading and investigation to figure out the Walther/S&W deal.

But on the other hand, I didn't do much research and I think I've got it figured out.

The current PPK series states, "Made in the USA" right on the gun. It also says, "Under License of" just above the Carl Walther slide printing. I know where the gun is made and who made it.

The PPS states, "Made in Germany" right on the gun. Yes, the S&W address is on the slide, but it obviously isn't made by S&W in the US.

I've talked to gun dealers and tried to cut through the usual b.s. If someone walks into a gun store and says they want a PPS and asks when they'll come in, the dealer is going to say, "I can try to get one for you." But what they are most probably thinking is, "This guy wants to just see one. Then he wants to handle it and then he will come up with excuses on why he can't buy it right away and then I'm stuck with a gun."

Of course, the dealer wants top dollar for that gun too.

But, I wonder what would happen if a person walks into a gun store and says, "I want a Walther PPS. I want it as soon as possible. I will fill out the paperwork right now and put down a deposit."

A friend at work just sold his Colt Pocket Nine for $800. He shot my PPS and became enamoured with it. The Colt is gone and he has $800 burning a hole in his pocket. He is going to go to the gunstore and do whatever it takes to get a PPS.

I'll keep this board posted on his deal. Maybe it will take awhile. Maybe he'll get one reasonably fast. Maybe he won't be able to get one.

Again, it is like a desirable car. You can go into a Ford dealer right now with the desire to buy a Shelby GT500. But it's going to cost you more than the sticker price and you might not actually be able to get one.
 

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A friend at work just sold his Colt Pocket Nine for $800. He shot my PPS and became enamoured with it. The Colt is gone and he has $800 burning a hole in his pocket. He is going to go to the gunstore and do whatever it takes to get a PPS.
I've done something similar, but am not willing to pay an exorbitant "upcharge". I told my dealer I was very interested in the .40 S&W version, and I'd probably buy it if he got one. He knows me well enough to know I'm serious about it, so we'll see what happens. He's had some of the 9mms, but said he didn't expect to see the 40s for a while.

-- Sam
 

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mm6mm6 Again said:
mm6mm6:

I KNOW I paid approximately $50.00 too much for my new PPS. I paid $595.00 + tax and I could probably have gotten it for around $540.00 or so had I been willing to wait a few months.

Trouble is, I'm an old fart, and I didn't want to wait a few months. The dealer making a little extra profit didn't bother me in the least because I had gone into his shop a few weeks previously and placed an order. He did not require a deposit, and when the PPS came in he called me FIRST. He told me the price he wanted and gave me the option to pass if I chose to do so.

Had I not bought the PPS I guarantee you he had others waiting in line to do so.

Supply and demand always dictates what the price on a certain item costs, and retailers have always raised, or lowered, whatever it was they were selling dictated by the demand or lack thereof.

Right now Walther PPS's are in demand, and generally not available..

I'm very tickled I was able to give the gentleman $50 too much.. :D

JMOFartO:

JP
 

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Disappointed Also

After reading and hearing so much about the PPS last year (2007) I excitedly placed an order with my local gun dealer for the PPS in 40 cal. I had a Glock 26 in 9mm but wanted something with more punch and the PPS looked like it would it would fit the bill. My dealer advised me that their distributor warned them that the PPS was not available at the time I wanted it and no ship dates were available.

So like you I waited and waited for the PPS 40 cal. to appear. Everytime I'd show up at the gun shop they knew what I wanted to hear but they couldn't deliver what Walther wasn't shipping. In the meantime I sold the Glock 26 to a relative. And during this long wait the PPS FE and the black 9mm have showed up. Well I got tired of waiting and after reading the thumbs up and thumbs down experiences here on the forum that people have had with their PPSs I went out and bought a Glock 27 to fill the nitch that was reserved for the PPS 40 cal.

I still want the PPS, but I'm going to give it a year for Walther to workout any kinks in this first run of PPSs hitting the U.S. market.

Yeah, I'm disappointed also in Walther's slow response in getting this hyped firearm to the States sooner. I hope to be bragging one day on the forum about my own PPS.
 

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I think the lack of availability comes down to a few factors.

1. The previously mentioned advertising campaign and product reviews. In my opinion, these have generated much more demand for the gun than was originally anticipated.

2. The size of the gun. While I love the P99, it isn't immediately obvious to the average person why the P99 is a better choice than the competition. With the PPS on the other hand, you have a compact cary gun made by a major manufacturer (in comparison to Kahr, Keltec, ...)

3. Store selection by Walther/S&W. Most of the guns seem to be going to the larger chain stores (specifically Gander Mountain) because they sell more firearms over a given time period.

4. I think that Walther/S&W have screwed up and either had production troubles, transportation problems, or distribution problems.

Just my 2 cents.

Jeff
 

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Here's an earlier thread on Walther marketing for the P99 that might be of interest to folks wondering about plans to promote and distribute the PPS:

http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6960&highlight=walther+marketing

As to Smith & Wesson's customer service, it is far better than most and top-notch in many regards. I've personally never had a bad experience with S&W, be it about Walthers or Smith-brand revolvers. I personally think that we are lucky to have them. If you don't believe it, try the customer service at Taurus or Beretta sometime. :)
 

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I just posted this in another topic, but want to repeat myself here:

... in my gut I suspect the distribution channels will open up after the SHOT show, which starts this weekend (2/1). At least I hope that's what's holding things up. I really, really hope that Walther and S&W aren't having "turf wars", with S&W intentionally being slow to get the PPS to market so they can introduce their own "slim" pistol.

-- Sam
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Coming up to March and still no standard PPSs in central PA.
I'll probably be updating this thread with the same message in April.

Stay tuned
 

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Coming up to March and still no standard PPSs in central PA.
I'll probably be updating this thread with the same message in April.

Stay tuned

M:

Well, I've got my PPS,and love it.. I hope you'll be able to locate one soon. (I see them advertised on www.gunsamerica.com quite regularly now).

But my thinking regarding Walther's concern about PPS distribution to the American market is that if there were a priority given to a certain market between one and ten, (one being highest priority) the priority Walther seems to have, and the same priority they seem to have given us in the past is a TEN.

I think my P99/AS and my smaller P99c/AS are absolutely wonderful pistols, and I had to learn about them by stumbling on Shipwrecks continuing raving posts about them on this forum.....

If Walther had spent 1% of the time and effort singing the praises of the P99's to the United States market as Ship has every cop in America would have one strapped to his side instead of a Glock.:eek:

One of the best things about having a Walther when everyone else has something else is knowing that comparing "apples to apples" the pistol you are carrying is at least equal to anything else, and most of the time superior.. :D

I know for sure my Walthers have been the absolute most accurate firearms right out of the box I've even owned or fired. (And that's a pile over 50 years).

My suggestion is just to "hang tough" and buy a PPS when you can. I think you'll be well pleased to find that although Walther advertising and distribution in the US sucks the firearm itself is fantastic.

JMOFO/YMMV

J.Pomeroy

 
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