[shrood]

Can you use +P ammo in the P99.

 

[submoa]

Your manual will say that it is not recommended.

+P and +P+ rounds are really intended for 9mm submachine gun use (ie. MP-5, UZI and MAC-10).

Some have fired +P rounds through P99s with no ill effects... but there is always the risk of KB!. Look up the multitude of Glock KB!s documented on the internet.

I'd personnally stick with standard 9mm rounds so that if I do lose a hand in a KB!, I can at least sue Smith&Wesson and Walther for enough to buy a good hook.

PS: KB! = KaBoom!

 

[uncut]

A Walther rep from Germany has once stated in writing that +P would be ok in the P99.......
I am no ammo expert but from what I have heard on the internet the European specs on 9mm is hotter than american as it is....
here are some good posts regards the topic
http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3584
http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2563
http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3739

 

[dakotaelkslayer]

Interesting read on 9mm, 9mm NATO, and 9mm +p...

http://www.glockworld.com/articles/9mmhistory.htm

Jim

 

[2Barrels]

Hmm, I had planned to use Speer Gold Dot +P 124 gr. as my SD/HD load, and qualify my P99's performance with about 200 rounds of it. From this thread and the other threads cited within it, it looks to me like there's no real consensus regarding the P99's fitness with +P. Even the emails from the Walther personnel seem to contracdict each other.

 

[E.T.]

I used to shoot European +P ammo for a very short while and I ended up replacing the locking block of my P99 : the horizontal plane of the locking block was that battered that the rear end of the barrel (chamber) showed vertical excessive play when in battery. Fortunately the barrel itself was not damaged. No more +P for me

 

[ShipWreck]

One must do a dance to satisfy the +P gods prior to using any +P ammo in your P99. Watch out if U do not do this.....

 

[2Barrels]

As I said previously, I was planning to use +P ammo for SD/HD in my new P99 so I was looking forward to a relatively conclusive end to this thread. When the debate stopped and the answer was still unclear, I went to someone who should be an authority in the matter, Earl of Earl's Repair Service. However, after a conversation with Earl, I'm still confused!

Earl says "no problem [shooting +P] occasionally if it's an all German P99". However don't shoot it with a US-made gun. I've talked to Earl before about the P99 and he consistently says that only his guns (the ones he imports and sells) are all German and if the P99 has "Smith and Wesson" on the slide, "you can't be certain that it's an all-German made gun." That seems to contradict information I've seen elsewhere that says that all the 9mm's are all-German, and/or if the gun possesses certain proof marks (which mine does) it's all-German, etc. Can anyone shed light regarding 1) the German content/quality of Earl's imports vs. Smith's and 2) the notion of "no-problem using +P if it's indeed a German made piece?" Thanks.

 

[E.T.]

FWIW : my P99 is an "all German" one, made in Germany in 1998, imported and bought in Belgium in 1999. I'm sorry but I think Earl is talking B*****t !!!

 

[2Barrels]

FWIW : my P99 is an "all German" one, made in Germany in 1998, imported and bought in Belgium in 1999. I'm sorry but I think Earl is talking B*****t !!!

I believe Earl is specifically comparing to the one's imported to the US by Smith and Wesson.

 

[uncut]

HAHAHAHHA
somebody hit Earl's button again
This could be a longwinding reply but I will cut it short.....If you have German proofs on your P99, if it is in .40S&W or 9mm your gun is made by Walther, end of the story.......
which then should answer your question about the +p loads.....

Now if you are still interested in details..... I think Earl is a bit bitter since Walther (and I think Umarex may have been the driving force here) chose to import through S&W after Interarms went bye bye......I think Earl was hoping to be the sole importer for Walther and lost out to S&W......
I would say that his claims may be based on the fact that some .40S&W P99's were imported back in the early days where S&W made the slide and barrel to them. I think the #'s reported are about in the 5000 range but somebody correct me if I am wrong here.....
Non the less he is a great guy and I choose him for anything that is either not available from S&W or doesn't cost more through him than other places.
He is a honest guy and knows what he is talking about... I just think he gets wraped up in anger when you mention S&W to him...

 

[2Barrels]

... I just think he gets wraped up in anger when you mention S&W to him...

Thanks Uncut. The funny thing is that during the few times I've talked to him, he's the one that brings up S&W, not me. I've only been asking him things about the P99, but he goes on to warn of inferior quality (with SAW imports) and associated limitations such as problems feeding hollow point bullets, inability to shoot +P, etc. Each time I ask how to tell if the gun is all-German he says the same thing: if "Smith and Wesson" is printed on the slide, you can't be sure. Now I realize that I didn't buy the piece from Earl (geez I didn't know who Earl was until I had already made the decision and purchased from a LGS), but I do plan to buy his night sites (based on Ken Lunde's recommendation) and I let him know that. So I feel that I'm earning a little advice from him, but it's getting to the point where it's too much like oral surgery!

 

[E.T.]

I feel an apology towards Earl is in place : the guy indeed may have some hard feelings regarding the Walther dealership by S&W and to be honest, as a european I got all my spares and Walther goodies thanks to Earl because here in Europe a dealer like him is non-existant.

 

[Jake Starr]

Remember that first and foremost Earl is a salesman. Everything else comes second so take what he says with a grain of salt. As to you proof marked 9mm you can rest assured that it is all German. As to +p ammo, while I carry it in my ccw I do not make it a practice of using this ammo. I do shoot CCI Blazer for competition which is some hot stuff but it is not what I use all the time. If you want .40 or .45 caliber results from a 9mm my suggestion would be buy a .40 or a .45. Personally I would opt for a .41 mag or .44 special revolver? Great cartridges and six rounds is more than sufficient for average self-defense scenarios?but I like my P99, it shoots great, very dependable, easy to find, cheap ammo and I feel very comfortable with the 9mm as a defensive round. Shot placement beats wound cavity hands down. I place more confidence in my ability, if I practice and train correctly, than a cartridges ability... so get what you can shoot best and most often?.IMHO

 

[hoss79]

Last night I took my new p99c (haven't even fired it yet) and loaded some +p ammo into it, since it was the only 9mm ammo i had. When I chambered a round, it got stuck in the barrell. After prodding it out, it looks like the base of all the bullets is flaired slightly, a little to big for the barrell. So not really the initial, joyful, experience I was hoping for with my walther, but I'm going to the range tomorrow to try out some FMJ. Hope I didn't hurt my gun before ever firing it.

 

[Jake Starr]

it looks like the base of all the bullets is flared slightly,

Doesn't sound like your pistol is the problem but rather a bad batch of ammo, admittedly that seems odd but it can happen. Do you have a different type of 9mm pistol that you can test cycle the ammo through? Could be a tight chamber mouth on the barrel of you P99 but I doubt it....

 

[hoss79]

Yeah I'm going to throw them in my glock 19 later and see what the outcome is. I'll be putting some winchester through my p99c tomorrow so hopefully it isn't a problem with the barrell.

 

[PX15]

HAHAHAHHA
somebody hit Earl's button again
This could be a longwinding reply but I will cut it short.....If you have German proofs on your P99, if it is in .40S&W or 9mm your gun is made by Walther, end of the story.......
which then should answer your question about the +p loads.....



Then you say: "He is a honest guy and knows what he is talking about"... :

Er....

Earl says if your P99 has S&W on the barrel you can't be sure it's "all German"...

You say, if you have German proofs on your P99 it IS all German... Then, "he is an honest guy and knows what he's talking about"... Huh?


I've never had the necessity to do business with Mr. Earl, and just judging from his advertised prices I hope I never have to.. I don't begrudge Earl making all the profit he deems proper, but I think he is being a bit disingenuous on this issue, possibly because of his distaste for S&W being the importer of Choice by Walther.....

I simply cannot fathom the possibility that somewhere in the hinderlands of Germany there is a Walther factory producing P99's, proof marked as being all German and sold in Germany, P99's that will be shipped beyond the boundries of Germany, but not the U.S. and therefore with no S&W import marks that "might" or "might not" be "all German", and P99's that are sent to the U.S. and imported thru S&W being "possibly all-German, maybe not, and then off to one side a special mfg. line dedicated to manfacturing ALL GERMAN, no kidding, pistols JUST for EARL...

B.S.

I'm not familiar with the laws of the county I live in much less that of Germany regarding proof of manfacture and such, but I'm willing to bet that if your P99 has all German proof marks that sucker is made in Germany and is indeed "all German".

Both my P99c/AS and my P99/AS have all German proof marks, and until someone at Walther headquarters fess's up that all of the advertisement indicating all P99's are indeed all German is a lie I'll stick with my personal opinion that Mr. Earl is just a touch off base with his statement that a German proof marked P99 "might not" be all German.

I'm certainly not interested in starting a pissing contest with those who think Earl is all things Walther in the U.S. I have no doubt that he has special access regarding Walther firearms in general and the P99's sold in the U.S. in particular. I simply think when he tells a potential customer that only "HIS" P99's are assuredly all German he should "wink" so the customer realizes he's being had. (Earl's price alone should already have brought that thought up.)

And while we're on the subject, I am personally pleased as punch that my all German proofed P99's were imported by S&W. S&W has an excellent Customer Service reputation, and I'd rather have to deal with them should a problem occur than with Mr. Earl.

Let the incoming begin....


Best Wishes,


J. Pomeroiy

 

[uncut]

Nobody gets into a pissing contest on this board.......

the "Euro" P99's are different from the US S&W imported P99's in that they have the "U" shaped rear sight which is how they are sold in Germany... the 3 dot sights are for the US market....and no S&W on the slide
Earl does have special access to Walther (and there is another Walther imported in the US)...... He goes over there himself and picks at the factory... and if you look around on his website you can see that he has things you can not get from S&W....
Here is the link from the German Walther site.... shows who is importer and endorsed by Walther, Germany
http://www.carl-walther.de/englisch/haendler/adr-usa.html

Earl says if your P99 has S&W on the barrel you can't be sure it's "all German"...

You say, if you have German proofs on your P99 it IS all German... Then, "he is an honest guy and knows what he's talking about"... Huh?

There was about 5000 (that's what the talk is) of the early .40S&W P99's that had the slide and barrel made by S&W..... so Earl is not too far off... might just be that he didn't keep up with the times.....
As to the prices... I have said this before
Earl goes to Germany to pick his stuff... and has to cover his overhead ... and given the current Euro-Dollar conversion I can see why he is more expensive...look at the German webpage, the P99 goes from 740-800 Euros.... you do the math.....

 

[PX15]

Earl goes to Germany to pick his stuff... and has to cover his overhead ... and given the current Euro-Dollar conversion I can see why he is more expensive...look at the German webpage, the P99 goes from 740-800 Euros.... you do the math.....

uncut:

Well, in the interest of reasonable debate lets just agree that "Earl" has "gots to" make his profit because of whatever it costs for him to go "pick" his special P99's in Germany.. No problem with that. Lets agree that Earl is the "go to guy" for for those special Walther items unavailable elsewhere here in the U.S. We can agree on about anything from the fact that Earl is a super nice guy to the fact that all Walthers not purchased from Earl are indeed 2nd's and of lesser quality, and therefore lesser value.

I paid $581.00 for my "proof marked" P99c/AS.. That's $581 OTD.. Had I purchased a "real, genuine, all German" P99c/AS from Mr. Earl I would have paid: $799.00 for the pistol alone, plus shipping, plus a reasonable ffl transfer fee to my local dealer. (Who only charges $25.)

Look like Mr. Earls P99c/AS would wind up costing me about 50% more than the one my ffl dealer ordered for me?

I applaud those folks whos income allows them to buy from Earl, I can't.. I indeed agree that most times you "get what you pay for".. I just also think there are times when you can pay more, and not necessarily get more for your money.

In my humble opinion I think the only difference between the P99c/AS laying on the nightstand in it's cheap, but supremely functional FIST Kydex iwb holster that my local ffl friend sold me for $581.00 and the P99c/AS I could have purchased from Earl is that my pistol has the imported by S&W logo on the barrel. I would be just as happy if there were no importer logo on my Walther, but I understand that Uncle Sam requires one. I would assume that even Earl's Walthers are marked someplace with his importer mark?

Basically I think the money I saved NOT buying a genuine all-German, hand picked Earl's P99c/AS, and extra magazines (which I bought thru CDNN at a reasonable price) would have paid for the surplus SOG P5 I bought some time ago... So, I like to think because I settled for a "possibly-all German" P99c/AS I got a neat free old surplus P5..

It was not my intention to torque off all of the Earl fans, I just thought, and still think, that his pricing is too high.. And, it's his right to set the price, just as I have the right to purchase my Walthers elsewhere..

I do know that my P99's are more accurate than I am capable of taking advantage of.. I know that so far both have been 100% reliable, and are a pleasure to shoot. I don't know what an Earl's handpicked special ALL GERMAN P99 could offer me beyond that...





Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy