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Discussion Starter #1
I took 1917-11's advice and blue locktighted the bolts into my Walther P22's

5" barrel stabilizer, in an effort to keep it it from walking off the barrel. So far, it seems to be working. I shot a 100 rounds today at the range, the stabilizer never budged, and upon testing the tightness of the bolts, they were totally tight. I claim success.
 

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Keep us posted. What I was suggesting was cleaning the inside of the stabilizer body where it clamps onto the sleeve and clean the sleeve and then apply a dab of blue threadlocker on the stabilizer where it touches the sleeve. I've never had the two bolts unscrew.....it just seems they can't clamp the stabilizer down hard enough to keep it from moving. Good luck. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh. Never occurred to me to locktight the barrel to the inside of the stabilizer, should it come loose, I'll try that. Since I don't think it matters if the barrel sleeve and the stabilizer become "one-piece", I may use the red locktight.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Update: Went to the range again yesterday and shot another 100 Mini mags tthru my 5" P22. Stabilizer stayed in place. As long as it is stable, I am not going to blue locktight my barrel sleeve to the stabilizer. Fingers crossed.
 

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There is a pretty good bit of surface area that the threadlocked might lock down. I think I would start with blue. You will likely have to heat it to get the red to let loose. But, I've never locked it on with either. You will need to remove it in order to remove the slide for field stripping and cleaning. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #6
1917-that's another good reason not to loctite the stabilizer to the barrel sleeve. It could create quite the mess, not to mention cleaning it out for reinstallation. Hopefully, this will work.
 

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This stuff is similar to model airplane glue. You would not use a lot and when it hardens it will come off with the part when you remove it. You can then clean off any small excess amounts before reinstalling the part again with another light dab or so. When I use it on bolt threads, I only apply a small amt to the end of the threads. Both male and female threads need to be oil free. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Decided to clean my P22Q tonight, took off the stabilizer, annd then decided to remove the slide and finally the barrel. Well, the slide would not go back far enough to clear the rear rails, so I couldn't lift it up and forward to remove.
I'm saying to myself "what the hell is going on?" the only reason I could come up with was that the #83 rubber washer somehow got stuck and would not let me pull the slide back to the rear far enough to release it. I kept pulling it back, pulling it back, until finally it released and let me remove the slide.

My flashlight revealed that the slide was hung up on the washer under the RSA and attached to the frame. I had to pull it out with needle nose pliers, at which time the washer snapped and came out. Now it works fine as always.

Think I'll be skipping the washer for a while until I figure out what it got hung up on. Just makes no sense.
 

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I've never had a problem with the O rings. You do have to install it forward of the take down lever and snap the lever all the way up when remounting the slide. Was the O ring in good shape? I lube the O ring, guide rod/spring and barrel sleeve....but, with dry powdered moly. Since this isn't a critical wear area a light oiling would be fine also. The critical wear area on a P22 is between the slide grooves and frame rails.

If this happens again I would recommend you pull the take down lever down, stand the pistol grip up and tap the muzzle on the top of a desk, etc. This should shake the ring down and toward the front. When the O ring is installed it does not fit tight against the bottom of the barrel sleeve and there is really no reason for it to get jammed above or behind the take down lever. I tried to put two O rings in one time and they won't allow the slide to move rearward enough for installation and they also shorten the movement so that the slide hold open won't work....but, I've never had one jam up. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #10
1917- when I finally got the slide off, there was a piece of the ring still on the RSA, very thin, almost looked like a skin off the washer, the body of the washer was hung up on some piece of the frame bottom. It was just before the hole where the RSA sits into the frame. It would not release the washer, I had to really yank on it , until it broke and then pull it out. I couldn't see what in the frame the washer got hung up on. That o-ring came from Ace, think I'll try Lowes next time. I installed the washer about 400-500 rounds ago, about 200 of which were thru the 5" barrel, I don't see how that could matter thou.
 

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Hmmmm? There is a recess in the frame for the rear end of the recoil spring assembly but the O ring should never be back there. The take down lever sits in front of this recess and the O ring needs to be installed forward of the take down lever. It is possible for the O ring to slide up and down the RSA so you have to make sure that when you install the slide that the O ring is still forward of the take down lever. If the O ring has moved to where it is over the lever...you won't be able to push the lever up and lock it. Is it possible for the O ring to move to the rear of the lever before locking...possibly, I would have to check. If so, it will not provide any benefit as a buffer. When installed properly, dismounting the slide will almost fully compress the recoil spring and in the process push the ring all the way to the rear. This should not cause any problem. Just remember to move the O ring back forward before reassembly. Of course if an O ring wear out and comes apart pieces could get stuck somewhere.....but one good thing about a piece of rubber....it won't cause any damage.

Just make sure your take down lever is all the way up and locked...O ring or
not. I might put up some better pictures the next time I take my slide off. 1917
 

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the only reason I could come up with was that the #83 rubber washer somehow got stuck and would not let me pull the slide back to the rear far enough to release it. I kept pulling it back, pulling it back, until finally it released and let me remove the slide.

My flashlight revealed that the slide was hung up on the washer under the RSA and attached to the frame. I had to pull it out with needle nose pliers, at which time the washer snapped and came out. Now it works fine as always.
Not being satisfied as to why the O ring didn't hold up....I decided it was time for a cleaning of the QD that I've been shooting suppressed. Somewhere between 300 and 500 shots. The O ring was not in good shape, almost had the center punched out. Now what would cause that I wondered. It is the washer on the muzzle end of the captive recoil spring assembly. Previously the muzzle cup mashed the O ring up against the face of the take down lever. Perfect...the center of the cup hit the center of the O ring which was pressed against the smooth face of the lever. Not so any more.

The O ring still works but the sharp and smaller washer now hits the inner 1/2 of the ring and in the process begins to cut into it much faster. Continued shooting would likely cause the center of the O ring to totally separate from the outer 1/2 of the ring. This is likely what I saw when I took the 5" pistol down for cleaning after 2,000 rounds one day. The O ring was shot. Still barely hanging on but only by a thread. I'm still going to run one but will changing out every 300 to 500 rounds. I don't carry the P22....if I did....I'd probably remove the O ring. Since I don't, O rings are very inexpensive and I think help protect the slide....I'll keep installing them.

I'm not sure that is the full story with yours Bigborgel, but they won't go 2,000 rounds anymore. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #13
1917-My shooting buddy just got a Walther PPQ M2 in 22lr, and we disassembled it to clean it. The uncaptured recoil spring sits nicely into a black rubber cup that is about 1/4" thick, which sits against the gun's frame. It's too bad our P22's can't accommodate such a design feature, it would solve the frail nature of the O-rings we are currently using. wonder if there is an alternative ring available , one that might have more strength?


Is there a way to anchor the O-ring towards the muzzle end of the RSA?
 

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Umarex also placed a rubber buffer on the nose of the trigger guard/take down on the zinc PPK/S in .22. The trigger guard as most know on a PP pistol is what stops the slide and in effect acts like a large leaf spring. I'm not sure what the trigger guard on the zinc PPK/S is but if cast zinc or even MIM'd something....perhaps Umarex figured some type of rubber buffer would help there too. I expect it does. If the PPQ 22 comes with a rubber buffer....I have nothing against that but now that makes me wonder what the slide is made of. I was hoping aluminum. We recently weighed the P22 slide against the PPQ slide and if I remember correctly the 5" PPQ weighed the same as the P22....which probably isn't possible if the longer slide is cast zinc.



The concept of the O ring as a buffer on the P22 is very simple. Pictured above is the O ring sitting against the front of the take down lever. The face of the lever stops the slide's rearward movement because the bottom of the muzzle cup hits it. All the O ring does is sit between the two and act as a rubber buffer. The O ring also doesn't let the slide go back quite as far when firing which is a bonus in allowing more metal at the frame rails and slide grooves to remain in contact.



Here the guide rod has been installed into the recess in the frame. As you can see the take down lever fills the space between the frame so there should be no way for the O ring to get behind the take down lever or on top of it unless the ring gets damaged. The only part really moving when firing is the recoil spring compressing and expanding a small amount.



The front of the captive spring and muzzle cup fit like this when assembled. The recoil spring fits neatly inside the ring while the O ring matches the circumference of the lower muzzle cup almost exactly. In pistols without the captive spring the muzzle cup simply bumps into the ring pressing it against the face of the takedown lever. No problem, both have smooth surfaces and the O ring lasts a long time.



Here is where the problem comes in. The new captive spring has a washer on the nose to retain the nose of the recoil spring. That washer is not large enough to fully press against the face of the O ring and it is sharp. So what is happening is that the O ring is playing a part in stopping the rearward movement of the slide ( a part it is not supposed to play ) and while the muzzle cup is probably doing most of the stopping the washer is gouging into the O ring with each shot. For this reason the O ring will soon be damaged by the washer.. Above is a damaged ring, the inner half of the ring has almost been sheared from the outer portion of the ring. Will this hurt the pistol....no, but it sure is going to wear out the O rings faster. A larger washer just slightly smaller than the diameter of the muzzle cup would solve the issue but this gets a bit more complicated than just installing an O ring. Of course Walther expects the pistols to be fired as it arrives in the box....no O ring needed.

There are O rings that have a rectangular cross section instead of a circular one. It is doubtful that one with a larger inside diameter will work either because the O ring floats on the guide rod so...it is still going to get whacked by the washer. I can't figure any way to attach the O ring to the muzzle or lever face where it would stay put. So, this buffer will now have a much shorter life unless you use the old style recoil spring assembly or a larger washer can be installed on the muzzle end of the guide rod. I can do that but I'm not recommending anyone get into that type of modification. Such a washer would be the new stop on the muzzle end. The recoil spring should keep it tight against the muzzle cup and it would hit the face of the take down lever just as the muzzle cup does....but it would have to not rub on the grip anywhere or the underside of the barrel sleeve. Hope this explains the problems the new assembly is causing to the O ring buffer we've been using successfully on the non captive spring for a number of years. 1917
 

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Pictured is an old guide rod and recoil spring which I am just using to illustrate something. Here I have placed a 1/2" dia washer that might be used on the captive guide rod assembly. I will have to remove a slide again to see if anything inside the muzzle cup would interfere with the larger washer.



Here is how it would look assembled. As you can see the new washer is wide enough to support the full face of the O ring which would eliminate the smaller washer from cutting into the ring. There would be a difference in the operation of the guide rod assembly. Presently a robust head on the muzzle end of the guide rod holds a washer. The captive recoil spring presses against this washer. This washer also fits inside the cutout on the muzzle cup. So when firing, the muzzle cup begins to move rearward, pressing against the small washer seated in the muzzle cup, the washer presses against the recoil spring as the slide moves rearward. The rearward movement of the slide stops when the inner side of the muzzle cup hits the take down lever.

With the above I would have the option of leaving the smaller washer or removing it. The larger washer would now take its place. It is probably safer to leave it as the small washer might act to guide the rod and keep it more or less centered in the guide rod hole although the new rod does stick out the end of the muzzle. The difference really comes in where the new washer captures the muzzle end of the recoil spring. So, when installing the slide this secondary washer would compress the spring perhaps 3/16" more than the factory system because the washer is stopping the nose of the spring and the washer is no longer recessed into the muzzle cup. The other thing that would occur is that the pressure from the recoil spring is now against a larger washer that will rest on the outer muzzle cup and not in the recessed area. Is that a problem? Is the muzzle cup weaker? The muzzle cup is what stops the slide so you would think it is strong enough. Compressing the recoil spring means the slide would be closed with perhaps just a bit more spring pressure....perhaps a good thing??? I'm not sure this type of spring gets stiffer as it is compressed. Does it compress at a constant rate until almost solid. I don't know.

Other than compressing the recoil spring just a bit more when the slide is fully forward, the guide rod still holds the new washer properly in alignment and now the O ring face is fully engaged front and rear and by a smooth surface as the slide is stopped. That should return the ring to a long life. Someone send me a slide and I'll try it out. I'll send it back, promise, if it breaks. :D 1917
 

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The washer is the width of the O ring. I don't see anything that would interfere with a wider washer resting against the inner cup face....the O ring presently fits under the barrel sleeve. Again, the existing washer sits in the bottom of the muzzle cup with the recoil spring pressed against it. With a larger washer, the new washer would rest against the muzzle cup causing the spring to be compressed 3/16" or so more, slide fully forward. Rearward operation would be the same except for the O ring and thickness of the washer. Cocking of the hammer and the slide catch should both still work fine.

I'd like to see a photo of that rubber buffer in the PPQ .22. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'll try to get you a pic of the PPQ rubber shock absorber, It's about a 1/2" long, about half of it is hollowed out so the recoil spring rod can sit within it. That leaves about 1/4" of absorber for the shock. The entire unit is a fairly hard black rubber.



I don't know how my O ring traveled all the way past the take down yoke and almost up to the breech end of the RSA, it was stuck on a piece of reinforcing poly molded into the bottom of the frame just behind the yoke. You should be able to find it on your QD model.
 

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Someone dropped off a Walther made S&W M&P 22 and I took it apart....I do remember the recoil spring assembly and probably took pictures of it. Big plastic thing that was allowed to move rearward when the take down lever was flipped. A recent picture of a PPQ 22 seems to indicate a very similar recoil spring assembly although the take down lever looks more P22 style. That is fine...I like the P22 lever better than the flip levers. So, I will have a closer look at that guide rod assembly. It does seem something might have been molded into the shape of it. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #19
1917- do you think there is any way to lightly wire an O-ring to the bands on the captured spring, it would assist greatly in immobilizing the ring. I like the idea of putting the o-ring in the muzzle cup and the the flat end of the RSA against it, I'm just concerned that it may allow the RSA to move around a bit and not remain in place. Perhaps a bit of blue loctite on the ring would ensure that it stays against the end of the RSA, without permanently cementing it to the ring.
What size o-ring is needed for the muzzle cup , it appears to be larger that the regular #83 ring?
 

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No, I don't think so. If it isn't really simple it isn't worth doing. Walther expect you to fire the pistol stock and will replace the slide if it breaks. With the old guide rod....it was simple. Nothing to cut into the O ring as the slide slammed into it.

The new captive spring with the small steel washer on the muzzle end is where the problem is. The #83 O ring is what is pictured and the lower perimeter of the muzzle cup still smacks into the o ring pressing it against the face of the take down lever. When you hand cycle the slide, the small washer does not touch the o ring, because, the recoil spring keeps it pressed against the bottom of the muzzle cup. Under recoil when the slide flies rearward very fast and hits the o ring/takedown lever and stops abruptly.....apparently the steel washer has enough momentum to compress the spring and hit the center of the o ring. This pretty quickly.....200, 300, 500???? rounds later chews the center out of the ring. With no center to keep the o ring centered on the guide rod/recoil spring...there is no telling how the now too large inner diameter will allow the remains of the ring to move around and be damaged.

I'm not sure I am following all you are asking but even if the O ring were glued to the muzzle cup...the steel washer would still slam into it. If you could glue the o ring to the muzzle cup and have it stay put...there would be no need for the small inside diameter of the # 83. You could purchase an o ring with a larger inside diameter the the steel washer could just pass through. But without being able to lock the washer down by gluing....you need the tighter tolerance on the inside diameter to make the o ring stay more or less centered on the guide rod assembly. I don't know of any glue that would keep a rubber ring glued in place as it gets repeatedly pounded.

It's an add I came up with to soften the impact of the slide against the take down lever.....my opinion is that is was a very simple, fool proof rubber buffer. It no longer works as it previously did due to the small washer that was not a part of the original long spring. 1917
 
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