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I assume the OP means the trigger-mechanism and slide of a P99 AS (complete with decocker) combined with the frame of a PPQ.

If that's the case, the nearest we're likely to see to this vision is the example produced by Old Fart Engineering Ltd., depicted in post #12.

Not that there's anything wrong with the P99. It was designed as a police/military service pistol and has been quite successful in that roll (as underlined by numbers which can be seen in the public domain). Since its introduction, however, there has been a clearly perceptible move away from pistols with the DA/SA mechanism among purchasers of service pistols. The trend has, very definitely, been towards pistols with a constant trigger pull-force.

The P99Q (linked in post #3), as well as the PPQ P3/M3, none of which are sold on the civilian market, all have partially pre-cocked trigger mechanisms with a constant trigger pull-force of 32 N, almost exactly half-way between the DA of a P99 AS (40 N) and the SA of a PPQ (25 N).

Why would Walther revert to a trigger mechanism which they clearly view as outdated? The current crop of PPK and PPK/S are direct descendents of the very first Walther DA/SA pistols, but they are made in the USA for a predominantly American market and there is almost certainly a strong element of nostalgia as well as the undeniable James Bond association driving their sales. It is noticeable that Carl Walther Ulm have made no attempt to reintroduce these models. The PP range will very likely prove to be the first and last DA/SA pistols carrying the Walther name.

Balor
 

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Balor's points are well made and succinct. There isn't a lot to add.

Personally I find it an ideal general purpose military/police side arm (please note general purpose).
Past that I have nothing to add.
 

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No need. My P99s all wear a free approx 2" rubber sleeve commissioned from an old bicycle inner tube that was otherwise trash. The sleeve is thin easy to install/remove, excellent texture and tackiness without grabbing clothing.

I think the P99 with the DAO trigger is equivalent or better than the PPQ. It seems (cannot confirm at the moment) the PPQ lacks a double strike which the P99 seems to have in dry firing them (someone can confirm or refute?). I much prefer the looks and styling of the P99 without the forward serrations and with the more angular look. These are minor subjective things but the P99 may be the most handsome semi-auto mass produced pistol I've ever seen (and there's stiff competition with CZ, HK, and Sig).
 

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I'd agree with both of the last 2 post in that as a "general purpose" firearm, it's the best for me. Which is why I went through both the HK VP9, and P99 before settling on the PPQ. However, as far as a modern (21st Century) firearm is concerned: I'd prefer the looks of the Gen 1 P99.



I also like the concept of having a double-strike capability on a firearm especially as an emergency weapon so I have a couple of the MR9s to hand family members if things ever go VERY sideways! Why MR9s? They have the double-strike capability of the P99, but have a regular rail to mount a light! Plus they can be had for around $325.
 

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It seems (cannot confirm at the moment) the PPQ lacks a double strike which the P99 seems to have in dry firing them (someone can confirm or refute?).
Re. P99: Confirm

Re. PPQ: Refute. The PPQ P3/M3 has the re-strike capability.........but good luck in finding one!

Balor
 

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Thanks. Observation. When I dry fire my PPQ gen 1 the trigger goes "dead." Is that different on later variants?
If by “dead” you mean that you have to re-cock, then the answer is no. All PPQs, with the exception of the above-mentioned P3/M3, are (to the best of my knowledge) single action only and must be re-cocked on dry-firing.

Balor
 

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I think the P99 with the DAO trigger is equivalent or better than the PPQ.

A DAO P99's trigger pull and reset are nothing close to being as good as the PPQ. Only the P99AS in SA mode comes close, and it's pretty damned close at that..





Thanks. Observation. When I dry fire my PPQ gen 1 the trigger goes "dead." Is that different on later variants?

You should spend some time with a PPQ..wonderful handgun :)



If by “dead” you mean that you have to re-cock, then the answer is no. All PPQs, with the exception of the above-mentioned P3/M3, are (to the best of my knowledge) single action only and must be re-cocked on dry-firing.

This is true. It's a SAO, dry firing, the trigger won't reset as it will on a P99 DAO or AS.
 

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Eh, I'm sitting here with a PPQ m1 and a P99 DAO. If there's a difference in the pull, it's nano-weight difference and would be indistinguisable to anyone but the most inane trigger snobs around. So when I say there's no difference, this is a practical self defense duty handgun and the triggers are the same. If you're measuring with precision instruments, fine. You're correct.

I also said it's "better" because the P99 DAO seems to have a double strike ability, whereas my PPQ appears to not have that ability and needs to be re-racked. In my world, for a self defense or duty handgun, a second strike ability is always an advantage. We can debate the level of advantage but that's not the point.
 

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Are we talking about the same pistols? A P99 DAO has the same double action pull for every trigger press, and it's about 8lbs. A PPQ has the same single action pull for every trigger press, and it's at or under 5lb. There's also a huge difference in trigger travel - the DAO trigger has to travel much farther over the course of a trigger press. It also has to return all the way forward before it can be pulled again, whereas the PPQ has a very short reset.

They're as different as a DAO revolver trigger and a 1911 trigger. In other words, almost total opposites.

Is it possible you're comparing a PPQ to the single action pull of a P99 AS? Those are indeed very similar.

Edit - to put it another way, the difference between a P99 DAO trigger and a PPQ trigger is almost exactly the same difference as between the DA and SA shots on a P99 AS, or any other DA/SA auto.
 

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Are we talking about the same pistols? A P99 DAO has the same double action pull for every trigger press, and it's about 8lbs. A PPQ has the same single action pull for every trigger press, and it's at or under 5lb. There's also a huge difference in trigger travel - the DAO trigger has to travel much farther over the course of a trigger press. It also has to return all the way forward before it can be pulled again, whereas the PPQ has a very short reset.

They're as different as a DAO revolver trigger and a 1911 trigger. In other words, almost total opposites.

Is it possible you're comparing a PPQ to the single action pull of a P99 AS? Those are indeed very similar.

Edit - to put it another way, the difference between a P99 DAO trigger and a PPQ trigger is almost exactly the same difference as between the DA and SA shots on a P99 AS, or any other DA/SA auto.
Again, I'm not an infant and a gauged 3 lbs (which I dispute) is irrelevant to me. The feeling of both are, IMHO, excellent and perceived to be the same to me.

If you can't pick up a large soup can or carry a normal textbook with one hand, it will probably make a difference.

Adults REALLY make far too much of an imperceptible trigger pull weight, without an appreciation of the actual ergonomics and design. Think of a person's body weight; it's only one metric, it's not the whole story which has many variables.

What is not subjective is the double strike feature. That's objective.
 

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It's not just 3lbs, it's an exponentially longer travel. You feel that extra three pounds for longer because pulling the trigger takes longer.

If there wasn't a major difference between a long DA pull and a short SA pull, with each having specific advantages over the other, we wouldn't have DA/SA guns of any kind.

No one needs a trigger gauge to tell there's a massive difference between the two. I still suspect we're somehow talking past each other about different guns.

As to double strike, that to me is neither here nor there, since as far as I'm concerned the best practice for when any pistol goes "click" is to run the slide to get a new round in the chamber, but there's a difference of opinion on that.
 

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While I can't argue specifically against a DAO P99 trigger compared to a PPQ,
I CAN argue the different between a P99QA vs PPQ.

There's a huge difference. Several pounds, and a good bit of distance, not to mention the PPQ resets a lot further back as well.

If you don't like the PPQ simply because of it's lack of second strike, just say so.

Nobody here with experience with DAO (or QA) P99 will agree with you that their weight/length of pull is anywhere on the level of a PPQ ;)

Not trying to argue, but there's a big difference between 8 pounds and 5 pounds when it's on the first 3/4" of your dominant index finger.

And BTW, I work in a warehouse. I can pick up a whole tray of soup cans one handed...in other words, my hand strength is above average.

But that's completely irrelevant to how one determines whether trigger A feels "better" than trigger B. You're squeezing it with a finger, not a bicep.

Fact is, PPQ triggers have less weight and less reset (and less distance to the break) than ANY otherwise stock P99, aside from the AS in SA mode.

And I do own a P99cAS and a P99cQA, as well as 4 PPQ. None of the P99c are in a league with the PPQ in terms of trigger feel, save for the aforementioned AS in SA. My Navy M2 has the best trigger of everything. I've not gauged it, but I'd bet a box 9mm ball ammo that it's probably not much over 5 pounds if any at all. I ought to use it more but it sits....shameful, right? :D

The PPQ trigger weight is also determined solely by internal friction and the springs, there's literally nothing else to it. Can't speak for the DAO, but on the QA, it's exactly like the PPS. The trigger pull finishes cocking the striker and then releases it. That is part of it's weight. There's means to reduce slightly that weight on the QA but at the risk of light primer strikes. I never messed with mine, though I'd thought about it a few times.
 

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I just got a Hogue sleeve, made for the glock 19, fits really well, adds some thickness and very nice rubbery feel to it. I saw padawan recommended them in another thread. I also got the one that fits the p99c.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Ok now listen up I want the PPQ grip on the P 99 but that is all. I do not want the PPQ trigger system on the P 99. I love the trigger system.
 

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I'm pretty sure Walther isn't going to do this. You'll just need to redneck it and build a Frankengun. You just need a PPQ M1 frame, then swap the parts over. :D

All I had was an extra M2 frame, so my Frankengun is a P99 'button' gun. :D
 

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Ok now listen up I want the PPQ grip on the P 99 but that is all. I do not want the PPQ trigger system on the P 99. I love the trigger system.
Get yourself a Q frame (Classic or M2, your choice) from Earl or elsewhere, or else part out a PPQ and swap triggers and the necessary parts, slide, barrel, and RSA onto it and there ya go.

IAOF did it with an M2 frame, but I'd assume you'd want the Classic since you're already using the P99...

No idea what a frame from Earl would cost, but you could probably pick up a PPQ that has a lot of "miles" on it for the same cost. Wouldn't be a huge loss as you'd not be using the barrel and slide anyhow...

That's how I'd do it. Myself, I'd go the other way. The ability to decock the gun so it wouldn't fire while still having a chambered round would be the benefit to me. I'd much rather have the SAO trigger of the Q left in place.

If I had a P99QA I'd do a little experimentation. I have the P99cQA but it's .40....my PPQ that I use is 9mm...
 

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TB I think you can do your experiment. The P99QA trigger and sear assembly should fit your PPQ frame, and vise ah vers ah.

The same frame is used for the 9mm and 40, its just some of the internals, such as slide/barrel, sear housing with built in ejector, etc.

The only difference in a P99 and P99C is the half inch longer frame/barrel/slide,etc......ALL the internal frame parts are interchangeable.

Go ahead and swap them parts around. :D

Oh, and Balor's 'frankengun' above....I think that thing will work.

Here ya go, study these. :D

https://www.carl-walther.com/fileadmin/uploads/media/partsdrawings/P99_AS_268_84_50_l.pdf

https://www.carl-walther.com/fileadmin/uploads/media/partsdrawings/2765101_e_ET_P99_C_AS.pdf
 

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This is all great and so on, trying to make Walther products work to our liking but in the end I just wonder why I can buy a Canik knockoff Walther with ambi slide release (something Walther folks have wanted for years) for $300 when I can't find a P99 at all...

And they seemingly have discontinued the P99c and for all intents and purposes the P99.

But yet we'll get yet another PPQ variant...
 
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