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Discussion Starter #1
Apparently this unintentional magazine release is a common problem in the PPQ M2. Purchase of the following kit and replacement of the magazine release springs MAY solve the problem. I replaced mine today ( I had 6 unintentional magazine releases before replacement) with much stronger magazine release springs:
Chicago shootings: At least 4 dead among 36 shot - chicagotribune.com
The magazine release spring will now no longer allow the button to stick half way in as it does with the Walther spring. It is imperative this pistol has a very strong magazine release because the button sticks up above the grip ( unlike other semi autos), and it can easily and inadvertently come into contact with various things ( holster, hand, items in a case etc) causing it to stick half way in the pistol and setting up an unintentional magazine release, as only slight pressure against the button ( now stuck half way in ) is now needed to cause the magazine to release.
I am now testing the replacement springs to see if any further unintentional magazine releases will occur. I will do these tests by carrying the pistol all day for several days in a holster that gave me one intentional magazine release; and I will carry it in a zipper bag several times when I had two unintentional magazine releases. Unfortunately, I cannot repeat the two day course where I had three unintentional magazine releases. I will say the stronger spring does cause the magazine button to bounce back when pressed and not stick. It now reacts like other semi auto's magazine buttons and releases the magazine after pressure ( my Sigs, S&W M&Ps, Glocks, XD's, 1911's) etc.
I will report back after conducting these tests. If these springs fail to cure this problem ( however, I think they will ) then the design of the pistol is faulty. In the meantime you should buy the kit and replace the springs with the stronger ones if you are experiencing this problem.
I have written to Walther and sent and received several e mails from Walther. Mr Vorhees, National Sales Manager for Walther, has already stated in an e mail to me that he will talk to the pistol's designer about this problem. He also ordered a set of the springs from Brownells.
Good shooting guys!!
 

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I believe the springs come brownells or wolf but the packet seems to hold a buch of differernt springs. Is there any way you can direct me to the spring that worked for you?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I believe the springs come brownells or wolf but the packet seems to hold a buch of differernt springs. Is there any way you can direct me to the spring that worked for you?
No I cannot. I took the pistol and the spring kits to my gunsmith and had him pick out the springs that were correct for my two PPQ M 2's. I did this because I wanted to reduce the possibility of a mistake, by using a qualified gunsmith, on which springs to put in the pistol to test.
You can probably match the springs by visually observing and comparing them. That is what my gunsmith did.
It is a one time deal with me anyway. If this does not work, the pistols either get put up in my safe, traded, or sold.
I can only suggest that if you are not comfortable picking out the springs yourself - visit a gunsmith and let him do it.
 

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I think Walther should ship the PPQ M2 pistols with the standard magazine button release spring installed and the heavy duty spring included in a small plastic bag. Much the same way they include three back straps. What's an extra spring going to add to the overall cost.....maybe 50 cents? This is a simple, cost effective solution....allowing M2 owners to customize/personalize their pistols to suit their own taste/requirements/needs.

I DO have a pair of M2's, and I have not experienced any of the problems indicated in this thread. So, I'd be one of the one's that would use the stock spring. But this is no different than the back strap option ...... where the first thing I do when purchasing a new PPQ or P99 is change the back strap from 'M' to 'S', while others prefer one of the other sizes. Customization......I love it.....and the necessary parts are (or should/could be) included with the pistol.
 

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I think Walther should ship the PPQ M2 pistols with the standard magazine button release spring installed and the heavy duty spring included in a small plastic bag. Much the same way they include three back straps. What's an extra spring going to add to the overall cost.....maybe 50 cents? This is a simple, cost effective solution....allowing M2 owners to customize/personalize their pistols to suit their own taste/requirements/needs.
Excellent solution. However, I think eventually Walther should replace its magazine springs with stronger springs and eliminate any possibility of the problem occurring ( if that is a solution to this problem - and I am pretty well convinced it is).
I think it is a lot different from the backstrap option. I would not carry a pistol in harms way where the possibility of an unintentional magazine release could occur. The pistol certainly would not make it as my EDC.
Because you have not experienced an unintentional magazine release does not mean you are not going to. Kind of like an ND.
I also have two M 2's and have experienced the problem with both of them. How hard have you run your two pistols and how much have you carried them?
I ran one of mine through a two day pistol course firing 700 rounds ( three unintentional magazine releases), took it to the range often ( no problem), fired it in IDPA matches ( no problem), carried every day in a holster for a couple of months ( one unintentional magazine release - one is too many), and carried in a zipper overnight bag with books for a couple of weeks
( two unintentional magazine releases). My EDC goes everywhere with me in various modes of carry. I have carried other button release pistols
( 1911's, Glocks, S&W M&Ps etc) over the years the same way as my two PPQ M 2's with absolutely no problems in this area. I now have well over 2,000 rounds through one of the PPQ M -2's. Problem is you cannot tell when this unintentional magazine release will occur with the factory springs. It will probably not occur if all you are doing is taking it to the range occasionally and using it as a range gun.
I am still testing these new stronger springs to make sure this does not happen again and I think that is the answer to the problem. I would not be spending so much time and effort on this pistol if I did not like it so much.
 

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It is imperative this pistol has a very strong magazine release because the button sticks up above the grip ( unlike other semi autos)...
What does "up above the grip" mean in this context?

I've handled an M2, and I thought the button was placed in a pretty good spot. I haven't shot an M2 yet though.

Excellent solution. However, I think eventually Walther should replace its magazine springs with stronger springs and eliminate any possibility of the problem occurring ( if that is a solution to this problem - and I am pretty well convinced it is).
Mag springs are an issue as well?


I may have missed the answers to these questions before but, do you shoot with a thumbs-forward grip? What holster are you using to carry this pistol?

I'm going to have to suggest that you switch to another platform if you are having this many issues with these pistols. If the issue really is as bad as you are saying, then I hope Walther gets to the bottom of it, but I have to admit that I'm wondering why we haven't heard of more reports of this from others who have bought an M2.

If I may, I'd suggest you start a thread over at the "Handguns Semi-Auto" section of m4carbine.net to see if anyone there has had these same issues with the M2. If I recall correctly, I've read some reviews from guys on that forum about how they ran the PPQ M2 through training classes.
 

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I have shot 4 matches with my PPQ & been the range a few times. I don't see this ever being an issue. The mag release sticks out less than a Glock does. Is anyone else having this issue?
 

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I don't see this ever being an issue. The mag release sticks out less than a Glock does. Is anyone else having this issue?
It's not so much a matter of how far it sticks out, but rather how strong the button's spring is. There have been a few reports of the issue. I haven't had it, but I'd rather correct it so it doesn't every show up, because it will only ever show up when I need it most.

The problem is there on my firearm, but my grip and carry haven't caused any accidental mag ejections to this point, but in testing, if I push the mag release part-way, it will not return out.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have shot 4 matches with my PPQ & been the range a few times. I don't see this ever being an issue. The mag release sticks out less than a Glock does. Is anyone else having this issue?
Actually it sticks up more than the Glock. The Glock Gen 4 is even with the grip. The Gen 3 is very small and even with the grip. Turn the pistols sideways and look at them. The PPQ grip is slightly indented before the mag release. The S&W M&P has a protrusion from its grip that protects the button.
Slowly press on the mag release your PPQ and see if it will stick halfway in. If it will then you may have a problem one day with the unintentional mag release. Now press on the Glock mag release and see if it will stick like this. It will not - the magazine drops.
I also shot mine at the range without a problem. Not really a test of usage. I also shot mine at several matches without a problem. Takes time and a lot of shooting for the problem to surface. You don't want that problem to suddenly surface in a dire situation.
If you are happy then don't bother to replace the springs continue to shoot and see if the problem surfaces. Good luck.
 

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My thumb does not come anywhere near the release button when I am gripping my PPQ, but I do agree the spring should be a bit stiffer to prevent accidental release.
 

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My thumb does not come anywhere near the release button when I am gripping my PPQ, but I do agree the spring should be a bit stiffer to prevent accidental release.
Same here, I'm just more concerned, that as as my CCW, something else my push the button in and aid in a accidental release.
 

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A few of us here have had this issue, I'm one of them.

My thumb doesn't hit the button, the base of my thumb does -- really could be considered my hand as opposed to my thumb.

Yes, I've had trainers watch me shoot. Yes, my grip is fine.

I'm a lefty, and I simply switched the button to the side for a righty, and use my middle finger. I'd considered doing this anyway so all my pistols are set up the same. I may try a better spring, but really I'm good either way.

Yes, I also had an M1. They're really the way to go, but I like all my pistols to have the same setup. If that doesn't matter to you, great.

If you are right handed, I'd strongly recommend renting one and running a couple hundred rounds through before purchasing.
 

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My spring set just came in, there were about 6 springs that fit the bill (3x2 of the same), of varying spring weights. I chose the lightest of the three options that got the job done, and its about 1lb heavier than stock.
The spring kit is surely worth the cost if this is a firearm you rely on. Glad I did it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What does "up above the grip" mean in this context?

I've handled an M2, and I thought the button was placed in a pretty good spot. I haven't shot an M2 yet though.

Mag springs are an issue as well?


I may have missed the answers to these questions before but, do you shoot with a thumbs-forward grip? What holster are you using to carry this pistol?

I'm going to have to suggest that you switch to another platform if you are having this many issues with these pistols. If the issue really is as bad as you are saying, then I hope Walther gets to the bottom of it, but I have to admit that I'm wondering why we haven't heard of more reports of this from others who have bought an M2.

If I may, I'd suggest you start a thread over at the "Handguns Semi-Auto" section of m4carbine.net to see if anyone there has had these same issues with the M2. If I recall correctly, I've read some reviews from guys on that forum about how they ran the PPQ M2 through training classes.
You have not shot the M 2 at all? I am merely reporting what has happened to me and how I propose to solve it. Apparently some others have had this same problem and changed the magazine release spring for the button.
The grip has nothing to do with the issue. I have shot a host of button release pistols with my grip - high thumb forward ( google Travis Haley teaches grip on you tube) and never in many years had an accidental magazine release. The issue is the springs.
The holster is a Kramer leather type holster I have carried other button release pistols in without any problems. The holster is not issue either. I am not carrying my PPQ, as my EDC, in this same holster with the stronger springs installed and intend to do so for quite awhile. I do not expect another unintentional magazine release. So far no problems with the holster.
I am not having many issues with the pistol, as you suggest, I am having one issue the unintentional magazine release. Which I think I have solved thanks to one of the posters here who suggested the spring kit from Brownells. If this problem, should re occur, which I highly doubt it will, while I am testing the solution then you bet I will make a swift switch back to my time tested, grip reduced Glock.
I think the National Sales Manager for Walther is looking into the issue and has said he will speak to the pistol's designer. As to whether Walther will do anything who can say.
I believe Walther now has 80,000 M 2's in the market and articles on the PPQ are just starting to appear in magazines on it. I read a few. So it is a fairly new pistol and probably not in wide circulation. 80,000 compared to Glock, S&W M&P's, and some others is not a lot. In fact I would venture to say there are very few of these pistols at matches. The large gun store I frequent only has two M 2's on display and one M-1 as compared to about 20 Glocks, 20 M&Ps and even far more FN pistols ( FNX and FNS). Kind of hard to find the Walthers.
Also you need to consider most folks buy a pistol and either shoot in six or seven times or occasionally shoot it at a range ( a pretty sterile environment) and put it in a drawer. They do not shoot matches, carry the pistol daily, or run it through pistol courses. It is not in frequent use. So the market place has to be fairly large before problems surface.
Last the only course that I have read about the PPQ being shot in was a poster, who posted some time ago, about his M 1 in the course.
 

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You have not shot the M 2 at all?
I haven't. I've only handled one at a local shop. Nobody I know owns one, and I haven't seen a reason to buy one yet, given that my M1 works for me and with mag interchangeability with my P99.

I believe a range nearby may have one for rent (I think I saw one in there), but before this issue was brought up, I never saw a reason to rent it since it would basically be the same thing as my M1, just with a different mag release.

I am merely reporting what has happened to me and how I propose to solve it.
I know, and I'm not getting on you at all about it. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm sure a lot of M2 owners appreciate you putting this out there so that they can be aware of it.

This isn't good news for the M2. If the magazine is prone to being unintentionally released, I wouldn't trust the pistol until the problem was fixed.
 

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Just a thought.

I have not had any unintentional mag releases but I guess it will only take one for me to make some adjustments. The spring is a quick and easy option. I am thinking there may be another option for those who have access to an extra plunger button. Why not bevel the button about midway towards the slide of the gun requiring you to engage the button by pushing the bottom of it. There seems to be plenty of material there. check out the image in the insruction manual page 30.
http://cdn1.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/279-57-52-a-Instruction-Manual-PPQ-M-Series-USA.pdf

I have tried to do a bit of photoshop of what I am talking about, note I HAVE NOT DONE THIS TO MY GUN... (yet)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I haven't. I've only handled one at a local shop. Nobody I know owns one, and I haven't seen a reason to buy one yet, given that my M1 works for me and with mag interchangeability with my P99.

I believe a range nearby may have one for rent (I think I saw one in there), but before this issue was brought up, I never saw a reason to rent it since it would basically be the same thing as my M1, just with a different mag release.

I know, and I'm not getting on you at all about it. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm sure a lot of M2 owners appreciate you putting this out there so that they can be aware of it.

This isn't good news for the M2. If the magazine is prone to being unintentionally released, I wouldn't trust the pistol until the problem was fixed.
The M 2 is too fine a pistol to be abandoned. Even when I was having issues the unintentional magazine release it went along with me on range visits. Invariable I would put up what other pistols I brought and take it out and start shooting it. Stronger magazine release springs I believe will fix the problem. It is an easy fix for those who want to use it. I am still testing it that solution and so far so good.
I also have an M 1. Like it very much. Like the fact that the magazines fit my P 99 also. Wish that were the case with the M 2.
I simply like the M 2 a hair better than my M 1. Using either release does not bother me. The paddle release is somewhat faster to use, I will admit.
 
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