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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Listing #799043090 on Gun Broker by CDNN Sports, sold for $4125.00.
Slide marked P1, however, it is of the P4 style, matching numbers on frame and slide. Proofed 74. An item that I have never seen before is the rear sight appears to be adjustable for windage. A trial item? Replacement?
From the Buxton Estate.
 

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https://www.gunbroker.com/item/799043090


I expect to see this relisted in a few days.


Several of these "rare" Walther auctions have been "pushed" by ghost bidders with NO intention of ACTUALLY buying the item, so don't consider it sold for a week or two.


Someone with an interest in "boosting" values of these classic Walthers is a real POS, bidding items to increase values, and not paying the price when THEY are left holding the bag. I've been adding to my collection lately, so this is a topic of concern.


Occam's razor; Any extensive Walther collections being sold off currently???? I would look at those seeing financial gain from the collection sale.
 
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For some reason, the CDNN auctions fetch a significant premium, even for non-exceptional items. They do a good job hyping their auctions, and quality photos help, but I still find some CDNN auctions that I have watched to be head scratchers.
 

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I agree, CDNN pulls top dollars for classic and discontinued collector quality firearms.


I have nothing but respect for CDNN, it's the "no pay" bidders that are shady.


Just one issue with CDNN on this auction, this from auction item description.........


"After the Munich Olympic tragedy in 1972 weapons manufactures the world over began experimentation with gun designs for the police sector now seeking covert carry, quick shooting ability, absolute security against mishandling, and most importantly, precision."


Can someone explain what the production of this gun has to do with the German Handgun Trials? Other then the design being a prior evolution of the gun that WAS produced in response to the Munich Olympics Terrorist Attack, the P5.


I thought the P1 was a 1950s evolution of the P38. Am I wrong?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Any thoughts on the rear sight being windage adjustable? It appeared to be factory to me. Rather a neat item.
As far as the P4 being relisted, I do not believe that is going to happen. The buyer, (winning bidder), not only won the Walther P4, he also won a 3rd. Generation Colt Single Action Army, Black Powder Frame 45 Colt revolver @$ 3050.00 from CDNN Sports at the same time. Total sales $7175.00. In reviewing his "Buyer's Feed Back" on GB he has purchased quite a number of firearms and other items from CDNN. All A++ ratings. About 7 or 8 a month, 30 or so in 12 months. A Person with very deep pockets.
 

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There's nothing particularly "rare" about this gun, it's just odd. Warren Buxton bought a lot of oddball guns, just because they exemplified some anomaly. Warren was preoccupied with such minutiae. In this case it was the "P1" marking, and the fact that it's in the wrong serial range. It's in the P38k serial range, and that adjustable rear sight is found on some P38Ks. It was probably just a mock-up put together at the factory for some now-forgotten purpose.

Big deal. So what else is in the safe?

M
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
The "Ultra Rare Title" Was put in place by CDNN, not me, and there are members of this Forum who have far greater knowledge of Walther pistols than I will ever obtain. Still, if this P4 is not "rare", it is certainly unique, possibly one of a kind. And as far as the adjustable rear sight, have the members of the Forum noticed the same on another P4? I must confess my lack of knowledge of the style of rear sight as I never have had the pleasure of seeing, much less the holding of a P38k. And I do own a copy of Dieter's new book. Just over looked it I suppose. And another question for my fellow Forum Members, the New Edition of the Model HP. I believe they produced 50 in 9mm Para. & 50 in 7.65 para. Are these pistols considered rare? Just curious as I own #50 in 9mm.
And for those who may wonder why I was following the auction of this P4 so closely without making a single bid, I was bidding on the Colt Black Powder Frame Single Action Army in 45 Colt also bid on by the same buyer as the Walther, I dropped out at $2300.00. Colt went for $3050.00
 

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“Ultra Rare” certainly can be used to describe oddball, low production, and the truly rare. As I said earlier, CDNN tends to hype their auctions to boost price, whether justified or not.
 

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The unspoken assumption is that if something is "rare" (or in this case, "ultra rare") --i.e., not many of them-- it must ipso facto be more valuable or desirable. However, that is demonstrably untrue, since it ignores the back half of the Law of Supply & Demand. Something that is oddball or made only in small numbers brings a higher price only to minus-minds who imagine that the equation is automatic.

To those, I cite the example of a pregnant nun in a convent.

M

P.S. Just give me the spare parts and I can put together "unique, possibly one of a kind" guns all day. That does not make them valuable.
 

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The unspoken assumption is that if something is "rare" (or in this case, "ultra rare") --i.e., not many of them-- it must ipso facto be more valuable or desirable. However that is demonstrably untrue, since it ignores the back half of the Law of Supply & Demand. Something that is oddball or made only in small numbers brings a higher price only to minus-minds who imagine that the equation is automatic.

To those, I cite the example of pregnant nun in a convent.

M

P.S. Just give me the spare parts and I can put together "unique, possibly one of a kind" guns all day. That does not make them valuable.

Well said, and made me laugh too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I assume you mean finished parts in your assembly of your unique guns all from the same class of firearm, as say a P38, or are you stating you just need firearms parts of any type, as a Colt SAA 4 3/4" barrel and a P 08 frame?
A Rolex tells the same time as a Timex, however, they are not the same.
Of course you maybe a master gunsmith, I do not know, I am looking forward to photos of your work.

You remind me of Aesop's Fables, The Fox And The Grapes.
 

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...

You remind me of Aesop's Fables, The Fox And The Grapes.
A police surplus P4 in excellent condition is today perhaps a $600-$800 gun.

How much extra would YOU pay if I offered you one with that adjustable rear sight and its frame in the wrong serial range?

M
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Photos first please. I will say that one of my faults is that I will pay more than is the standard/usual price for mint/as new pistols/revolvers that I have an interest in. Two of my father's favorite statements, "Never settle for second a best item, (firearm), you will never be happy with it". And "A poor man can only afford the very best, because it has to last".
If one would back off and reread our posts on this Walther, my strong thoughts are I believe it to be somewhat rare, possibly other members do also. Most of your thoughts concern the price that it sold for. Could this be correct?
You did notice in the opening posts of this Walther, I stated that I did not make a single bid on it. My interest in the bidding was on the Colt Single Action Army 3rd Generation
with the black power frame. I have a 4 3/4 " barrel, the one listed was 7 1/2. Didn't win.
I reached the age of 81 the 15th of this month and I do wonder, what would you have paid for it?
 

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If one would back off and reread our posts on this Walther, my strong thoughts are I believe it to be somewhat rare, possibly other members do also. Most of your thoughts concern the price that it sold for. Could this be correct?
...
No. You misunderstand me. My point is that calling something "RARE" does not automatically make it more valuable. And just because something is odd or one-of-a-kind does not automatically create demand, except in the minds of buyers who are told that it must be valuable because it's rare.

This is especially the case when the "unique" quality is concocted to create a demand for no articulable reason except to sell it. How else does one explain the Commemorative or Limited Edition crazes?

What would I pay for it? Not a penny more than a standard commercial P4 in the same condition.

M
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you for your last post as I now understand your thoughts better on this Walther P4.
As for the Commemorative or Limited Editions, they must have some appeal because they sell. They just are not your cup of tea. I have a passion for the older Walther, and Colt SAA revolvers and probably paid too much at times. Still I believe in the saying, "One did not pay too much, just too soon!"
Another one of my old Father's sayings, " It is not what something costs that is important, but how long you must work to pay for it. A lawyer who makes $400.00 per hour, an $85,000.00 car is no big deal. A person who makes $10.00 per hour, a $10,000.00 car is a Damn Big Deal!"
 

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As for the Commemorative or Limited Editions, they must have some appeal because they sell...
They are sold to avaricious optimists with too much disposable income to help themselves, or to make the effort to develop a sense of taste.

M
 

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I think comments on the value or importance of a particular piece are very helpful. However, I don't think anyone should have to justify why they bought a particular Walther or why they might be interested in one. To each his own. It's about the gun.
 

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For a Southern boy, you have been reading too much Karl Marx
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I have nothing against wealth. In fact I favor it. I have found, incidentally, that its accumulation is assisted by avoiding fatuous purchases of articles just because they are touted to be "rare" (or "One of Five Hundred" or similar crass promises of exclusivity and immediate collectibility).

You shoot your Limited Editions? Good. At least they have some practical value to justify the extra cost.

M
 
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