Walther Forums banner

21 - 40 of 105 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Actually the 21' was because that was all the distance I had. My wife got pretty aggravated, me shooting off the couch at a target while she was trying to watch some guy walk across the Grand Canyon. Wouldn't have been so bad but she was getting tired of holding the targets. M1911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
Actually, I know a chap (LEO), who shoots people at 7m all the time, so I just phoned him and asked him what he uses for that purpose.

I was told that he packs a Desert Eagle .50 Caliber Handgun. :eek:

He promised to bring it to the range next week so I can have a go w/it at various distances and see what it does.

He said NO OFFHAND.

I wonder why? :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
I don't see the point of testing anything at 7m other than sighting-in a red dot optical sight or laser sight. OK, I triple dog dare you to put up some groups at 21' :p

IMPORTANT: The aiming is never done by placing the rear sight and the front sight in focus (nevermind the target). It is impossible. End of story. Parallax takes over and messes things up.

The trick is to look (with both eyes open wide), at the front sight only. Concentrate at the tip of the front sight and vaguely align that with the rear notches and let the target be fuzzy/hazy -- not in focus.

Only the edge of the front sight ought to be in sharp focus and placed at approximately the same aiming area every time. This is the only known method I am aware of that eliminates parallax (which is the chief cause of inaccuracy with open/iron sights).

I'm thinking I'm going to need a much larger backstop with that method.

Also, hold the pistol comfortably so as to roughly stay on the aiming area as long as possible (this is commonly known as follow-up-the-shot), after the shot is fired. Just freeze while squeezing the trigger and allow it to jump on its own while keeping it there. It is easier to do than to describe here with words.

The target stays blurred. Period.

The rear sight is just a rough guide. Period.

The top edge of the front sight (approx. 5mm max. in dia.), is everything. EVERYTHING. It is as important as trigger control and then some.

I'll have to try this. Thanks

Back to your post; I like this line:


1917-1911M: "I would really like to see a loop hammer spring developed for the P22 similar to the SR22 spring. That would eliminate the sharp spring sticking out the rear of the pistol and I think put a more even spring pressure against the hammer instead of off center and on one side as the present hammer spring does."

Yes! That's what Daniel needs to ask the Walther P22 designers to work on.
Too bad they didn't move the new plant to Birmingham, I even have the land for them. That way they might let me go out and play on the trigger bar polishing machine and hack into their CAD design for certain parts....like beefing up the slide for a red dot. :cool: M1911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)


FWIW......Stock hammer and a little photoshop. Note the complex shape of the circular bottom of the hammer as it spirals in to create the hammer hook and how the secondary hook is shorter. I've a good idea about the height of the safety notch being shorter. Any guesses as to why?

The other line is what a stock AK, 2009 hammer hook face alignment was. Walther is apparently playing around with this.....so, why can't they remove the tip from the hammer and either round the face a bit or change the angle so that the flat portion at the tip rides flush with the bottom of the breech block and in the process....span the small gap between the safety drum and rear of the breech block. That was the reason for the re-profile to begin with. What I have pictured is how the flat area should fit when the hammer is under the breech block. A stock hammer doesn't fit like shown above.

I'll take a better picture with the entire hammer in it. This was the best I had of a stock hammer....I think. :) M1911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
7m Target (2 pics)

I just shot 10 CCI Blazer LRs with my P22 5" @ a target 21 foot distance (approximately 7m). I simply emptied a mag in a few seconds, offhand. The target was in the shade and I was under a bright Sun and the contrast was unbelievable, but it was the only place available at the range that I was allowed to do it.

So here it is. My first 21' target, ever.





The X Ring (10 Ring) is 2-inches wide.

Kindly :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Not bad.....but I want to see just how accurate you can shoot at 21'. Now take your time and see if you can put em all in the same hole. :) I have an 8" wide chunk of western red cedar for my backstop at present so I can't just go firing fast. I'd better aim or I might hit the TV, Ming Dynasty china or the Mona Lisa I lifted a few years ago. M1911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
It's all down to ammo. The CCI Blazers were the only available this morning. I couldn't see much for the smoke cloud. ELEY works best as well as LAPUA, which are clean burning and make no smoke signals.

I dunno 'bout a single hole tho :eek: , but I'll giv'it me best shot, so to speak :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
How about a picture of your range? M1911
The range is shown in the SloMo vids of the "Experimantal P22" thread.

The testing range is built in parallel to the 25m range and consists of a narrow corridor in the Sun and a target area in the shade.

I will take a pic of the setup next time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
Range pics

Here is the range pics requested.

25m Standard Pistol, Bullseye and Rapid Fire range 20 positions in four 5-shooter compartments separated by an acsess corridor in between. The turning targets are made by SPIETH;



The 30m Test Corridor with the target in the shaded area (this is where I shot the 7m test target posted yesterday). The chair represents the 7m mark distance to the target;



and two pics of the 10m Olympic Range with the older SIUS computerized target system. This indoor range has 300 LUX luminosity at the shooter position and 2000 LUX at the target, as per Olympic Competition Standards.



Twenty positions; ten for air pistol and ten for air rifle. The protected frames are reserved for new and inexperienced shooters and hide the sensitive wiring and cables housing that may get stray hits.



Many thanks to wtkshooter for the kind words :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Dang Crete, that is a nice range, a very nice range. All it lacks is bullet holes in the ceiling. That is the cleanest range I've ever seen. TVs too. Thanks for sending pictures. Are there other ranges like this or is this a top of the line one. We are supposed to attend a wedding in Greece somewhere, sometime in the next year. I've never been to Greece, Italy yes, Greece and Crete no. M1911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
You must definitely visit. Whereabout is the wedding scheduled?

There are several ranges around the island but none as equipped and looked after as ours, since it is not a private joint but a public installation funded and maintained as part of the National Sport Facilities of the country.

ISSF Teams train here for regional Games, including Cyprus and many Balkan countries, as well as the 2004 Olympics and Paralympic Games (wheelchair facilities, gym, sauna, the works).

Once a year we hold a National Shooting event that counts towards selecting the Olympics Team.

Your niece would be jealous if you don't bring her along ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
My spare P22 hammer assembly that could break at two pounds

This is my spare P22 hammer. I have practically everything in duplicates and I just realized that I also had this one somewhere. I just found it complete with pivot bar and spring; a complete hammer assembly.

So I wonder...

Is it possible to send it over to you for improvement, say, so as to break at 2 lbs (1000 grams), or thereabout? It was 4 Lbs + last time I had measured it before swapping it when the spring broke a few years ago. Then, Daniel sent me a new spring AND a new trigger assembly, which I then installed and now use in my P22.

Here are some close ups.







Hey! You can bring it back fixed when you come over and visit. I'll put you up in the guest room :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
These parts have to be fitted in a pistol and preferably yours. Let me get some new parts and and fix em up for you. I can test them and send em to you. Then you can try them. In the meantime you can over wind your hammer spring a bit and that will lower your pull weight. I test by pulling the hammer back until cocked with a trigger pull gauge. 8 lbs of pull required for new. Over winding carefully and retesting until hitting 7 lbs. Then I dropped to under 2 lbs with the hammer sear work and had to reinstall another 8 lb spring to bring it back up to 2+ lbs.

Thanks for the invite. Have plenty of ammo and wine on hand.....I'm bringing 40 people. :) I have no idea where this wedding is planned in Greece. Perhaps I will suggest Crete. M1911
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,070 Posts
You guys are reinventing the wheel here. And in this case, that's a good thing. It's also fun to watch. :)

One of the great things about a forum like this is unlikely pairings often take place, sometimes from far-flung places on the globe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
Great!

Suggest Crete for the wedding ceremony and I will arrange for the church, the flowers and extra guests to kiss the bride. Piece of wedding cake.

Apart from the hammer the sear is the same (it is part of the original and one of the few P22 bibs and bobs that has remained the same since the beginning). The hammer notches (as you can see from the pics), have been used quite a bit, maybe forty thou LRs or more and I am sure there is plenty of juice left in the assembly).

Indeed, send my way any part you need tested to destruction and I will do it with panache. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
Let's go over a couple of things you can look at right now if you haven't already.


This is a photo of the trigger bar ear and sear when the hammer is cocked. There are several parts here that should be nicely polished. First the bottom of the nose on the hammer strut drags along the inside of the frame to keep the trigger bar in position. I've placed it at the appx. correct height before taking this picture. An inspection of the left side of the frame will show where it runs. Polish both surfaces...polish only.

Next look at the contact points of the rear legs of the trigger bar and the legs on the sear. Polish all touching areas...Again, polish only.

Next notice that the inside of the hammer strut has pulled the trigger bar rearward. Notice that the rear legs of the trigger bar are about to engage the sear. Also notice where the top rear shoulders of the trigger bar are engaging the slanting steel pins fitted into the side of the frame. When pulling the trigger in SA the trigger bar does not touch the hammer strut. As you can see the slanting pin is already holding the center of the trigger bar below the catch notch in the strut. Pulling the trigger further causes the rear legs to rotate the sear off the hammer hooks. The trigger bar will remain in a position that allows it to hold the sear rotated out of the way of the hammer hooks until a round is fired and the slide knocks the trigger bar down and disengages the sear. I'm pointing all of this out because I have polished all of these areas and that has some bearing on trigger pull.

Note that the hammer spring is not installed for this picture.



Crete you can compare the lines on your hammer to the ones pictured earlier. You took the picture a little off from straight above so I can't really tell what is going on. It does appear that the face of your hammer hook is in align with the area just outside of the hammer pin hole. Stoning the face so that extending the line from the new hook face follows the yellow line should get you closer to a neutral engagement. If you look carefully at the earlier pictures of my hammer you can see I stoned the hook face to achieve that line. This all needs to be done in concert with your sear and fitment checked. But I wouldn't hesitate to take a careful look at how this hammer fits against the sear in your pistol. You can install the sear and hammer on the right side of the frame without the springs and hand press them together. Take a picture and blow it up. Should give you a pretty clear view of what is going on. Lowering the hook height and undercutting the sear primary angle can eliminate creep. The hammer is securely caught, the moment you move the sear....the hammer drops. You have to be careful not to lower the height of the cocking hooks to the point the sear releases the hammer but is then caught by the safety hook. M1911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)

Crete, here is a close up of one of the old P22s. Stock but with 20K rounds through it. Once upon a time I just left the sear/hammer alone. But above you can see what I call a neutral sear engagement. My new Q model had a very positive engagement. To really know if this is neutral or not you would have to know the geometry of how the sear rotates and how the angle behaves between the two parts. What is pretty clear is that in order to reduce creep you would re-profile the top edge of the hammer hook to reestablish a sharp edge and then lightly break that edge. The sear looks good except if this were a M1911 there would be a large secondary angle stoned under the primary face.

This of course makes the face much narrower which means the sear doesn't have to move (creep) very far to release the hammer. Creep isn't necessary for safety. A secure fit is. The hook could be lowered, the primary face made very small but there is a point you can reach where the trigger no longer becomes safe. You want a strong face on the sear, not some point. I forget on a 1911 what the measurements are but I think something like .025" down to .020 for hook height and,,,ah, I forget.

You could also have the same set up but with a slightly positive engagement and it might work as well. This is where I want to do more experimenting but you need parts for this and precise stoning or milling equipment. Not bricks from 1842. M1911
 
21 - 40 of 105 Posts
Top