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Just when I was feeling comfortable with my 8 years as a pistol owner and my technical understanding and experience with a number of models I performed a "jump shift" within 10 hours......resulting in the purchase of a Daniel Defense M4V7 Law Enforcement "pistol". So I am now engaged in a new adventure.....with a lot to learn.

Started yesterday morning researching SBR's, the available models, ratings and pro's and con's. After identifying a few models of interest I started the search for availability and pricing. It quickly became obvious that a lot of buyers were way ahead of me. Virtually every retailer I could locate had hung out the "Out of Stock" sign. I decided to throw caution to the wind and drove to my LGS out of frustration. When I walked into the store the 2 walls normally fully stocked with SBR's were bare except for 2 M15's with longer barrels and chambered in 5.56...I was looking for the 300 blackout. The LGS was crowded but a sales person suddenly freed up and asked if he could help. Confident I was wasting my time he asked if I had thought about a pistol. Of course I thought he misunderstood what I was looking for. He then took me to a case containing 2 Daniel Defense "pistols"... a 5.56 and the M4V7 300 Blk. He opened the case, removed the 300 and placed it in my hands...I decided that was exactly what I was looking for and bought it.

So, now I come to those who own similar weapons for a few suggestions. I purchased the 300 as a HD weapon. There is no suppressor and no sights. I have never owned optics or a suppressed firearm. Not certain that I need or want optics and while sights of some sort are a necessity I hate those tall sights. Unfortunately it takes a sight with height to bring the line of sight to a point where I might actually hit a target with some level of accuracy. So, I am open to suggestions but request that you provide information as to the benefit of your recommendation(s).
 

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I've been actively building a few AR's. I posted this picture a while back....these are 8.5" 300 BO. Added a Sig Romeo5 for about $139 and a Streamlight TLR-2. I also picked up a CMMG 9mm delayed blowback upper and put it on one of my spare lowers.

Who'd ah thought these things are classified as a pistol? BWAWAWAWAWAWA Love it.

Ya know, as it relates to the sights or optics. You need a tall sight, with a short sight, you'd never be able to get your cheek and eyeball low enough to line up the sights or see thru the optic. With the setup below, I've got to really lay my cheek down against the stock to be able to line up my eyeball with the optic. You'll obviously need some type of sighting system. Since these are for HD, I don't need any magnification....so a simple red dot seems to be the ticket. And the Sig Romeo5 is cheap and has auto on/off. I've also got the Streamlight TLR-2 HG that I can use when needed.

Seriously, there's a multitude of things you can do with the AR platform.....parts and addons are plentiful.

 

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I have no experience with these things.

Whats it like to shoot them? Do you shoot them as a pistol or are you using that short buttstock as you would a carbine or SMG?

Are they typically chamberd in .300BO and used with subsonic loads?

In conventional rifle cartridges I would think muzzle blast would be horrific???

Lots of questions I know. I have zero experience with these things. I am curious about them but wonder about their practicality versus a conventional pistol or carbine.
 

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I think the primary calibers are 5.56 and 300 BO. I'm sure you can build one with any of the currently available calibers, it's just that most are rifle calibers, meaning they're designed for a longer barrel to take advantage of the slower burning powders used in these cartridges. However the 300 BO was designed for use in a shorter barrel by using a faster burning powder. Many say that 9" is the happy length for 300 BO....meaning the powder has pretty much completed its burning. Yes, you can gain a little more velocity with a longer barrel, but the increase in velocity may not be worth that 'longer' barrel. Just depends on what your mission is. Lastly the 300 BO and the AK47 have very close to the same ballistics when both are using high velocity ammo. The magic of the 300 BO is you can use subsonic ammo and a suppressor.

With that said, they've also developed barrels and components to allow you to use 9mm and 45 acp pistol cartridges.

As far as shooting them, they shoot like any other AR....just a little louder. You can use a muzzle brake, which will reduce recoil, at the expense of more loudness, or a flash hider or a linear compensator. Some of these muzzle devices have an outer shell/tube to capture and direct the blast (sound) forward.

As far as shooting one with the 'pistol brace', you can pull the pistol up to a shooting position and lay your cheek on the buffer tube and in doing so, the pistol brace will probably wind up touching your shoulder. So, for the most part, when shooting your AR pistol, it shoots like any other AR. Oh, and that is not a butt stock, rifles and SBR's have butt stocks, pistols cannot have a stock, only a brace.

As far as practicality, the short barrelled AR's in 300 BO, 9mm or 45acp are excellent for HD. Not sure about the maximum capacity with the 45, but with 300 BO and 9mm you've got 30 round magazines.

Lastly, they're fun to build and tweak/optimize.
 

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Thanks for your response. It makes a lot of sense.

Last question. I realize "brace" is the term that must be used. At a practical or technical level though, what is the difference between a brace and a stock?
 

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A brace, typically will open up to allow you to stick your arm thru the rear of the brace, placing your hand on the grip, then you can tighten up the brace around your forearm. This allows you to shoot it like a pistol....one handed.

Go here SBA3™ | SB Tactical and take a look at the pictures....especially, the view from the rear.
 

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Unlike Oldfart I went with one from a manufacturer... A little more money but easier... I got the Springfield Saint with a 7.5 “ barrel in .556. While it’s a hoot to shot it has massive muzzle flash and fireball. No fun at all at an indoor range and no better then manageable at an out door. I’d recommend a 10.5” barrel.
Like Oldfart I went with the Sig Romeo. One on each of my AR’s. One Romeo 4 with the 65 moa circle and/or dot, Romeo 5 with the dot/circle, and Romeo 5 with the green dot/ 65 moa triangle. All have been flawless 34081345-70E9-4CB5-9C7A-D5CB7BC8EC8B.jpeg 431C3CCF-8EF9-4BC4-8BE4-2D25B10DEC11.jpeg
 

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The 5.56 cartridge was designed to use a 20" barrel. That'd be the length where all the powder should be burned, meaning much less to very little muzzle flash. So, it goes without saying....using a shorter barrel is going to leave much unburnt powder exciting the barrel....shorter barrel = more flash, and more 'BANG'.

Lots of muzzle devices out there....and in order to help lower the sound lever (to the shooters ears and anyone else near by) they've got a device which is basically a 'can'. This 'can' captures the sound, forcing it forward...NOT to the side or even rearward as when using a break.

I've got a Noveske KX5 on both of my short barreled 5.56 pistols. It does a good job of redirecting the sound.

I just ordered another device to try on my 300 BO. Reviews were good......I'll see for my self. If I like it, I'll have to buy another one for the other pistol.

Review - Kineti-Tech Zero Recoil Comp/Can Review | RHO

And, to purchase - Kineti-Tech ZERO RECOIL Muzzle Brake with 13/16 X 16 threaded Sleeve.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
OF....lacking any experience with muzzle breaks it's obvious that the designs vary considerably. Using the Kineti-Tech site only I see they too have several designs. Is there a significant difference in the brake affect and which would you recommend? They also have a number of sleeve designs. Think I will have to contact them tomorrow.

Here's a variation that appears to be somewhat simpler in design but just as effective.


An interesting youtube video on this variant.

 

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This guy does a good job testing several muzzle brakes

Yep, lots of em' out there....some work better than others.

However Kineti-Tech offers a brake in conjunction with a tube. Seems interesting....I ordered the Zero Recoil Muzzle Brake, which includes the outter tube.

Now, in all honesty the 5.56 in an AR has miniscule recoil. The 300 blackout will have a little more recoil, but certainly not objectionable. I'm really more concerned with the noise. My hearing is bad enough already.

Eventually, I plan to pick up a couple of suppressors and use low velocity ammo in my BO pistols.

As for BFD, it looks like that'll work.
 

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I’ve read positive reviews on KAK industry flash cans. They are single piece and don’t include a brake or flash hider rather they replace your muzzle device. Pretty cheap at around $30-40. I might try one. I’ve wasted more then that on other useless junk before....
 

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Interesting video......the BFD works. New way to scramble your eggs. 😂

So, the muzzle brakes are freakin' loud and send the blast out to the side and rearwards. The BFD or similar can device will redirect all that blast (and sound) forward. I think you need one. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So, the muzzle brakes are freakin' loud and send the blast out to the side and rearwards. The BFD or similar can device will redirect all that blast (and sound) forward. I think you need one. :p
That's a low blow....probably true....but low!

:D
 

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The tall sights are good: with a pistol you will have your head as high as possible when in operation. The added height aids in heads up operation. I use lower 1/3 cowitness optics, it makes for a more comfortable/natural head and neck position. DD sights are really well designed. I have a MK18 pistol and I run a rear Magpul BUIS polymer flip up sight and a standard Colt front sight post. I can’t shoot further than 200 meters with the 10” barrel and 5.56N MK318 cartridges without considerable energy deficits. So I would not even try to engage a threat outside that range. If I were to put an optic on it it would be an Eotech holosight with a lower 1/3 mount. Or a Reflex type sight with a high mount base. I have no need for the optic. I have been trained to point shoot at close range and out to 200 meters I’m going to be using the iron sights. I can’t possibly imagine how I would end up in a scenario where I would need the irons, but if I do need them I was trained many’s years ago by Uncle Sam how to use them well, and I shoot bulls with irons these days. I often wonder how fast my irons are versus red dots but I can say it’s easier to lead and follow a moving target with the dots. But within point shooting distances it’s irrelevant. Just make sure you adjust your length of pull properly and train well. The pistols can be funky depending on which brace you have. I have a Maxim brace and it’s rock solid and when I deploy it, it yields a perfect cheek weld for me. And get a good single point sling: my Maxim has a rugged QD in the boot end and I use a HD QD rigged to my old VTAC single point bungee sling, which I nearly tossed in the trash until I built my MK18 pistol, and found a use for it. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Sounds like you have a very well equipped system and some top line hardware. I had to review several items before responding. My goal is two fold. First, keep the system simple and second is to keep cost to a minimum while ensuring the quality is high. The Ecotech certainly appear to be high quality and I did research their optics after finding them listed in several top optics articles. The issue was cost. As for multiple sights and co-witnessing that adds complexity that I in all seriousness would probably not do well with. I have never used optics but the $150 for the Sig Romeo5 is not excessive if I decide optics are not for me and replace it with iron sights. What I was hoping to find was a simple setup using something like the Trijicon night sights with that big orange ball in front. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything like that.
 

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Below is my setup. You can keep it simple and keep costs down. Another way to keep costs down is to pick components that can be used on different platforms. My goal is to have dedicated parts for each platform, but until then, a couple of things jump around. A middle-of-the-road red dot will probably be your best bet. The only reasons you "need" to get a high-end holo sight is if you have bad astigmatism or you are paid to use your pistol. There are tritium BUIS, but they will likely run you about as much as a decent red dot anyway. I plan to get a smaller hand guard and get a muzzle brake with a blast shield/blast mitigation device/blast forwarding device. I want that blast directed as far away from me and my range buddies as possible. Also a consideration for HD or CQB.
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I have no experience with these things.

Whats it like to shoot them? Do you shoot them as a pistol or are you using that short buttstock as you would a carbine or SMG?

Are they typically chamberd in .300BO and used with subsonic loads?

In conventional rifle cartridges I would think muzzle blast would be horrific???

Lots of questions I know. I have zero experience with these things. I am curious about them but wonder about their practicality versus a conventional pistol or carbine.
I”m like you but I did go out and buy a Ruger AR-15 in 350 Legend with a 9 1/2 inch barrel. Somewhere between a 30-30 and a 35 Remington in balistics. Ammo is cheap and so far I really like it. Very accurate for a 9 1/2 inch barrel. It is basically a straight walled cartridge like a 357 Magnum with a longer shell casing and more powder, kinda like a 357 Maximum. It wouldn’t be my HD choice, but it is fun to shoot. I do have two other AR-15’s. One in 6.5 grendel amd the other in 223/5.56. For some reason the 300 BO just doesn’t do it for me. For HD I like the close quarters ability of a handgun.
 
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