[Nick_Praxis]

I have a doubt, I want to buy my first pistol, the P22 is a good election for the self-defense? or the sport?

Perhaps another caliber?
Desire something not very great but powerful, sufficient to stop a person, and that is feeding properly, I think that the first pistol does not have to disappoint

Thanks for the advices

 

[P88]

Everyone should have a .22 of some sort in both rifle and handgun, for practice and fun. However, the .22 is not the best for self defence. At a minimum a .38 special would be the choice for self defence. Personally I like either a .40 or .45. If you can't shoot a larger caliber well, than smaller would be better. Because it's better to shoot accurately with something you can handle rather than to shoot something powerful that you can't hit anything with.

So a P99 in 9mm or .40 would be a good choice if you wanted a Walther. If not a 1911 in .45 from Kimber, Springfield or Colt would be a great defencive pistol. If you don't want to practice much and you just want a gun around for "just in case" than a revolver in .357 magnum would be the best choice.

 

[petro]

I would have to disagree somewhat. I carry a P22 for defense purposes, here are my reason's why:

1. The .22 cal round behaves differently when penetrating flesh, Instead of a single bullet path, like a .40 or .45, the .22LR tends to "bounce" off of hard objects (bones) rather than smashing through them. This tends to cause more internal damage, should the round penetrate the CBM (Center Body Mass).

2. I can quickley, safely, and effectively empty a 10 round magazine before anyone I know can get off only 3-4 shots from anything larger. This is due to the .22 not having a heavy recoil and allowing me to reaquire my target.

3. .22LR ammo is cheap!!

Mike

 

[Nick_Praxis]

I am confused, also I thought that a greater caliber was better, but the arguments of Petro are very convincing.

The truth is that the P22 is beautiful and wanted to buy it, but if it is not good for the self-defense, then it is not good for me.

I have the following doubts:
1. If a caliber 22 is good for the self-defense because it does not cross the body, because people choose a caliber .38 or .40 ?

2. It is certain that the use of bullets of hollow point in the self-defense is important? I read that they cause greater damage because they expand when hitting in body

3. A salesman suggested a Jennings to Me, model Valor .38, that opinion has of this weapon?

Thank you very much to give a light me in this problem of novice.

Nick

 

[LoneWolf]

It depends what you are looking for from your pistol. If you want one shot knock down power go with a larger caliber. Petro is correct the .22 will suffice - mostly for the reasons he has given. If you were thinking of going to a larger caliber I would say go with the 9mm. The recoil is less than larger calibers, their is an abundance of pistol choices and the ammo is readily available and somewhat less expensive. JMO

 

[P88]

Well, a .22 is better than a rock, but when the professionals need to go to work, they reach for the big guns. Lets think about this. If confronted with a drugged out creetin or just a guy who is #### bent on surviving and doing harm, much like most military personell are trained to do, then even if your bullet hits his heart, his adrenaline or the drugs are going to keep him going. In some cases up to 10 minutes even after the heart has exploded from the bullet. Now you are left with what is called a failure to stop. The only sure way to stop someone is a hit to the cranio-ocular area of Head. The .22 has been known to bounce off skulls. Maybe you'll get lucky and the .22 will enter through the eye socket, but when your under stress and someone is coming after you, your marksmanship skill tend to suffer. Thus as Petro has even stated the bigger bullets will smash through bone and get to the area needed to end the fight.

If you're new to handguns, I would say go ahead and get the P22 and then save your pennies for a bigger gun. The .22 will suffice in a cool headed hand, however the bigger caliber in the same hand will do even better. Another reason why I would suggest the P22 if you're new to handguns is that sometimes the bigger caliber guns tend to make people gun shy when they first shoot them. This is because of the big recoil that they give off. If you get the .22 first and practice with it and figure out the fundamentals of shooting with it first, the larger caliber pistol will be a lot easier to shoot.

If you can only get one pistol. I would suggest a revolver of .357 magnum caliber. Thus you can shoot the lower priced and lower powered .38 specials for practice and have the .357's for carrying. If you just like the look and feel of the P22, than try a P99 in 9mm or .40. They look just like the P22, just bigger.

Do some more research and see if anyone in your area offers self defense classes. Then see if you can shoot a variety of guns before you make your choice.

 

[Crete]

A lot depend on the circumstances.

Who attacks whom, where, with what, when and possibly why?

Modern attitudes in Europe seek to disarm, rather than kill, and if that is not posible; to injure, rather than kill.

There are various ways of disarming, but this is not the issue here.

Shooting is.

A criminal wearing a bulletproof vest, for instance, may not be stopped easily by, even, a magnum handgun at close range.

Here is my non-expert view on this:

At a time danger IF a well-acquainted shooter with a P22 can hit the foot (or feet) with five rounds and the arm (or arms) with another five, the attacker COULD possibly be stunned to the point that the P22 holder MAY buy enough time to reload another 10-round clip and ... carry on practicing on a live (barely) target.

The P22 is accurate enough to hit everything within 25m. Arms and leggs are huge in the target department.

Taking care of an attacker may very well depend on those: IFs, COULDs and MAYs, because the target MAY be moving, fast, COULD be drugged etc., yet IF the shooter with a P22 is cool, the attacker MAY not stand a chance.

BTW P88, which P22 is the "P22 f.i.", in your signature?



Crete

 

[halfmoonclip]

Getting off a 'burst' of 10 makes some sense, IF all ten go off. IMHO, rimfires are not nearly as reliable as cfs in terms of ignition. I have had failure rates as high as 2% in name brand ammo; can't remember the last time a cf didn't go off.
Rimmed ammo isn't ideal for feeding as well.
Keep the .22 for a trainer, but use something else for serious purposes. If you absolutely must use a .22, use a revolver, so that you can cycle past trouble.
Best,
Moon

 

[Hitman]

In the US, if you fire off 10rds at a BG, you will have the lawyers and cops trying you for murder, not self-defence. I personally stick with a Glock 26 (9mm) and figure at 1-2 shots will perhaps not kill them, but will give me plenty of time to get away.

 

[Crete]

Hitman,

Right you are. This is a hypothetical discussion, of course, and the variables are endless. But just for the sake of the debate in a potential life-threatening situation anything would do: from fingernails and teeth to a S&W 500 .50 cal. revolver, and everything in-between. If the BG or anyone else shoots first, attacks with a hacksaw etc. and you have a Walther P22 in your pocket loaded and ready what do you do? Do you use it or not?

I remember seeing this written somewhere: "It Is Better To Be Tried By Ten Than To Be Carried By Six".

If only such extremely dangerous situations never arise, we would be all better of by simply enjoying a handgun as a compact high-precision-paper-hole-punching instrument, or a stress release devise letting us vent some steam off in recreational activities.


Crete

 

[Hitman]

If I had only the Walther P22 and was shot at, I'd first get out of his line of fire.

Then If I had to fire at him, I'd be at his head. Hitting the extremidies (arms, legs, etc) while under that kind of stress would be very difficult and would not nessessarily stop him/her from coming after me. Hitting him in the head would hopefully stop/curtail his vision, and or brain functions. Torso shots would probably not do much harm.
How many shots? Just enough to safely get away from the situation, and no more.

 

[Stainless]

What I have heard and also believe.
If you have to draw and shoot a BG, EMPTY the gun and reload.
If you do shoot them you do not want them to be around for the possible trial.
If they make it to trial it is guarenteeded that they will testify that they were trying to sell you a Bible and you attacked them.
If they can not testlfy then your story is the ONLY story.

 

[RebelGray]

First post here, thought I'd pick a good topic-

Theories on SD calibers are like a-holes, everyone has one. I agree with the idea that .22LR is a decent little carry gun. I've seen enough on the terminal ballistics of the 5.56mm slug to understand that even at modest velocities, its going to foul someone up very badly if they get one in them. Having been shot by an idiot farm kid with a Ruger 10-22 at nearly 100m distance in the calf, I'll vouch for the fact that they hurt like #### even when you dont get hit in a vital area.

The "big kal" guys around here base their ideas on combat and doped up berzerkers....I dont know about you, but I dont live in the game "Grand Theft Auto". I dont go places where I'm going to be encountering any nine foot tall meth heads bent on gutting me like a fish, and if I do go somewhere that I'm bound to encounter them, I've got an Uzi that fits real nice in a shoulder bag. I also didnt get my CCW permit with the idea of going into combat with my CCW weapon. The biggest gun I carry in civilization is an aged Chinese Type 51-I Tokarev that came back a bit at a time from my Uncle in SEA many years ago.

The most you'll probably ever encounter is a walk-in on a convienience store robbery, or wind up in a mugging, or some other like-situation where someone tries to strong arm you or threatens you. In that case when you've decided your best course of action is to flash some steel, 90% of the time you've ended the situation right there. The remaining 10% of the time if you actually have to shoot, again, 99% of the time once the perp feels his skin becoming violently compromised, even if its just a .22, he'll get scared as #### and either surrender or try and get the #### away from you ASAFP. That remaining 1/100 guy will either be some junkie, or wearing a kevlar, in which case a 9mm or a .45 or even a .357 would be little protection anyhow for center mass shots, and the .22LR will have just as much success off his head or apendages as the bigger lead would.

I dont carry a hand cannon or a wunder-nine because I'm not that great of a shot with my dominant hand and I'm sure as #### not going to consider switch-hitting in a stressfull situation. In said situation I want something small, light, but that will give me the greatest chance of a vital hit in rapid fire because I dont care what the (as my SRDS would say) craphouse lawyers here say, I'm going to unload on that perp no matter what I'm carrying. Dead men press no lawsuits, and if it can be proven he was attacking you, their families will have a #### of a time doing it too...

 

[Crete]

Allow me to beg your attention to a by-line I read today in the net, about the P22, by Jeff Cooper.

Scroll the page down a bit and read:

http://www.jpate.freeserve.co.uk/JeffCooper/jeff11_3.html


Crete

 

[doublebarrel]

Quote[/b] (Stainless @ July 21 2003,12:51)]What I have heard and also believe.
If you have to draw and shoot a BG, EMPTY the gun and reload.
If you do shoot them you do not want them to be around for the possible trial.
If they make it to trial it is guarenteeded that they will testify that they were trying to sell you a Bible and you attacked them.
If they can not testlfy then your story is the ONLY story.

Exactly what I believe, and confirmed by some friend who's been around, military special forces traing and such...

 

[the_sandman_454]

My theory on SD weapons is as follows...

A .22 caliber pistol is better than nothing. If you shoot it well and load it up with the more high performance ammunition (CCI Stingers and/or Velocitors, etc), it should be a bit better than if you were just shooting the standard stuff...

When it comes to SD, my personal opinion tells me that a .22 caliber hole is nowhere near as effective as a .375" hole, .45" hole, and so forth. If you do have the misfortune of encountering somebody who's drugged up, the pain will not stop them, what will stop them is a loss of blood pressure to the brain. That's where a bigger caliber is more useful, since the individual would theoretically bleed out quicker and therefore would be stopped quicker.

I think the assumption that you might not encounter a dangerous individual such as this or someone in kevlar and won't have to worry about it is a very dangerous assumption... If you don't encounter somebody dangerous (how will you know who you'll encounter ahead of time and plan for it?) then you're lucky.

It is a tough call and one everybody has to make for themselves... I have to think that if the excrement hits the fan and a situation turns bad, one would be better off with something big enough to where it'll make a large hole, be utterly reliable, and something they can still recover somewhat quickly from shot to shot...

That having been said once I have procured my CCW permit, I will probably carry a 1911 style .45 caliber most of the time, but for those times when something even that size won't do (style of dress won't cut it, etc) then something like the P22 or other smaller firearm would be a good compromise, since afterall something is better than nothing... That having been said I think the P22 is the best choice or one of them out of all the .22 caliber pistols if for no reason other than just because it "looks" like a more threatening weapon than any of the other .22's I've seen out there...

I guess in a roundabout way of saying it, anything can be lethal providing you have the right shot placement, some assasins are said to have used .22 caliber suppressed pistols for their jobs... But they have the advantage of the target not being hopped up on adrenaline at the very least and possibly other substances, which alone can drive them to appear to do superhuman things even when a shot is taken that would otherwise take the target down nearly instantly...

Run what you like, and hope it's enough, and hope you never have to draw it in a situation like that... And that's the best one can do...

 

[Ni3Frontier]

As far as your first handgun goes, kick and how you deal with it should be a concern. As a rifle shooter, I started with a .22 bolt-action, but then quickly got bored. I now shoot an M4 style .223. A bit more kick, lots more noise, but still nothing I can't handle.

I had the opportunity to take a Russian bolt action7.62x54R (fairly big cartridge) to the range. Without the practice I had received from my .22 and .223, the report and kick would have been more than enough to intimidate me and throw my accuracy way off. As it was, I was able to hit center at 25 yards (it was an old rifle and the sights were not finely accurate so the distance was sufficient).

I was also considering a P22 as my first handgun. However, after shooting one, I knew immediately that I would outgrow the weapon quickly. I have shot .40 and .45 cal pistols, and they were not bad, but I felt most comfortable and still had sufficient challenge shooting a 9mm. And so, I have settled on a P99 in 9mm in about a month.

One very interesting thing that I am suprised nobody has mentioned is how the weight of a pistol relates directly to the perceived recoil felt by the shooter. A lighter polymer or titanium handgun will feel like it kicks harder than a heavier pistol in the same caliber. A .40 or .45 is not uncomfortable to shoot if the weapon is not feather-light. The 1911 .45 is fairly hefty and was not as severe as I expected it to be.

Hope this input helps!