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The best that Dieter Marschall's book does with this is found in Table 2 on page 28. It states that Manurhin PP pistols chambered in .32 ACP in the range 10001 through 99600 were made between 10/1952 and 01/1961. Simple extrapolation would suggest that Dennis' Manurhin PP was made in the late 1950s. Mine is 19695, which would suggest early- to mid-1950s.
 

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FT LAUDERDALE MATRA

I am new to the group and found this after searching for info on Matra Manurhin. I had the opportunity to do some computer consulting work for the Matra company when they were located in Fort Lauderdale, FL in 1985. I had been admiring some guns they had in a display case in the office lobby area. At the time, the person I was working with told me that they were not going to be manufacturing the 9mm pistols in the near future.

I asked what they were going to do with the guns and he was unsure. I asked if I could purchase them and eventually he let me purchase one. So, I have been the proud owner of a FT LAUDERDALE FL stamped MATRA since 1985 and it came with a custom teflon coating he called, Street Camoflage'.

The serial marking are exactly as described in this post (my serial is of the 2672XX vintage) and mine had FT LAUDERDALE FL stamped beneath the words MATRA MANURHIN INTERNATIONAL on the slide.

I know pictures are what makes posts more interesting, so I have included a couple to show what the gun looks like. The other display gun was done up in a teflon he called, Dessert Camoflage. It was primarily beige with blue sky-colored ribbons running across the body. I sure wish he let me get both of those guns....



 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Most fascinating, gmen; thanks for that informative insider's post ... and welcome to the forum at the same time. We trust that you'll enjoy your time here.

Unfortunately, your photos didn't make it. Perhaps this link will help:

http://www.waltherforums.com/showthread.php?t=10404

Just got a note from the OP that the photos work for him. Anyone else having issues with the pictures?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
The links do work; thanks for the added help. The gun is different from any I've seen, for sure. Interesting finish/overall look, in fact.
 

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Ceb: Your PPK/S .380 Manurhin fits in the known serial range of 238581 to 329527S guns that were produced in France between October 1969 and March of 1984. Given that, your gun was likely made in 1970 or early 1971.

According to Dieter Marschall's fine book "Walther Pistols Models 1 Through P99," the notes of Manurhin or Walther in the "manufacturer's" column refer only to the actual manufacturer and not to whatever may be found on the slide legend. "That is to say, all Model PPs made before number 700,001 and all model PPKs made before number 800,001, and all small caliber versions of Mods. PP/PPK and PPK/S, were manufactured at Manurhin, even if they carry the 'Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do' slide legend." The S suffix designated the PPK/S models.

The Marschall book is an excellent reference for Walther owners and collectors. You can pick it up online at Ucross Books in Los Alamos, New Mexico.
Searcher: Thanks for the info on the book. I just ordered a copy.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Excellent. It doesn't have all the answers -- I'm not sure that any book has all the answers -- but it does provide some excellent insight into the manufacturing of the various Walther handguns through the years. In my view, it's a must-have for any serious Walther fan or collector.
 

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PP .32acp

I finally got out to the range yesterday to fire some handguns I aquired over the winter, and one was an absolutley pristine Manurhin PP.32, two piece brown alligator box, brown grips and mag ext that looks NIB. Loaded it up, and it wouldn't fire, cocked the hammer and tried again, nothing. The shop where I purchased it was about 2 miles away, so I stopped by and took the slide off, and at some point in time, someone, somewhere, took the firing pin out and cut in in half and replaced the back half. It had to happen in an armory in Europe somewhere. Removing the firing pin is no easy feat and my assembly/disassembly book says you need a third hand to get it back together. I ordered a firing pin and a FP spring from Earl's yesterday. Mine is in the 326XXX serial range.
 

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PP Serial #

I've ordered Marschall's book, but it hasn't arrived yet. I u/s that Walther started making 7.62 PP's at their Ulm factory at some point with serial #'s starting at 700 001. Does any one know the serial # for the end of the 7.62 PP production run?

Thanks

Bill
 

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Manurhin PPK with suppressor

I am new to Walther Forums, and should be most grateful for any information that can be provided on a Manurhin-made .22 PPK factory-fitted with a detachable suppressor/sound moderator. The example I have seen is serial number 1008xxLR and the barrel appears to be of PP length. Unfortunately, the suppressor/sound moderator is now missing. The thread is different to the usual one used for Parker-Hale type moderators common in the UK. I should be most grateful for an indication of how many such moderated pistols were made and when, an illustration of the suppressor and an indication of any markings on the suppressor (which I am told were 'WALTHER… .22LR ONLY DO NOT USE HIGH SPEED LOADINGS', but have been unable to verify).

I very much look forward to comments.
 

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Some serial numbers to check if someone would...
Manurhin PP in 7.65 835xx (late 50's?)
3025xx

Interarms marked, St. Entienne proofed PPK/s in .22; 1368xxS.

Thanks! I've been enjoying the forum.
Moon
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The first Manurhin referenced in your post falls into the serial ranges of pistols made in France between 10001 (October 1952) and 99600 (January 1961). The second was likely made in the early 1960s: the pistols then ranged from 300301 (January 1961) to 478866 (September 1985).

The .22 in question must be a steel-framed pistol. The serial ranges there run from 100295 (January 1969) to 141447S (April 1987).

Hope that helps a bit.
 

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History of Mulhausen or Mulhouse or Mulhuse

Concerning Manuhin located in Alsace in the city of Mulhouse. I thought this might be interesting. Mulhouse, Mulhausen or Mulhuse, depending on whether or not you speak French in Alsace or German or Alsatian. As all 3 dialects are common although German is very common. As my grandfather would not allow a word of French in the house. One would think they are walking the streets of a German or Swiss town as they walk the streets of Mulhausen. Here is a breif history:
Legends mention the origin of the town in 58 BC, but the first written records of Mulhouse date from the twelfth century. It was part of the southern Alsatian county of Sundgau in the Holy Roman Empire. From 1354–1515 Mulhouse was part of the Décapole, an association of ten Free Imperial Cities in Alsace. The city joined the Swiss Confederation as an associate in 1515 and was therefore not annexed by France in the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 like the rest of the Sundgau. Inside its Alsatian enclave, it was a free and independent republic associated with the Swiss Confederation until, after a vote by its citizens on 4 January 1798, it became a part of France in the Treaty of Mulhouse signed on 28 January 1798, during the Directory period of the French Revolution.

After the Prussian victory in the Franco-Prussian War and the Otto von Bismarck engineered unification of Germany under Prussian King William I as the new German Kaiser, Mulhouse was annexed to the German Empire as part of the territory of Alsace-Lorraine (1870–1918). The city was briefly occupied by French troops on 8 August 1914 at the start of World War I, but they were forced to withdraw two days later in the Battle of Mulhouse. Alsace-Lorraine was invaded and reacquired by France after World War I. It was occupied and annexed by Nazi Germany after the Battle of France in 1940, until returned to France at the close of the war in 1945.
 

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Concerning Manurhin, located in Alsace, the city of Mulhouse. I thought this might be interesting. Mulhouse, Mulhausen or Mulhuse, depending on whether or not you speak French in Alsace or German or Alsatian. As all 3 dialects are common, although German is very common. You see my family is from Alsace/Lorraine. My grandfather would not allow a word of French in the house. One would think you are walking the streets of a German or Swiss town as they walk the streets of Mulhausen. Here is a breif history:
Legends mention the origin of the town in 58 BC, but the first written records of Mulhouse date from the twelfth century. It was part of the southern Alsatian county of Sundgau in the Holy Roman Empire. From 1354–1515 Mulhouse was part of the Décapole, an association of ten Free Imperial Cities in Alsace. The city joined the Swiss Confederation as an associate in 1515 and was therefore not annexed by France in the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 like the rest of the Sundgau. Inside its Alsatian enclave, it was a free and independent republic associated with the Swiss Confederation until, after a vote by its citizens on 4 January 1798, it became a part of France in the Treaty of Mulhouse signed on 28 January 1798, during the Directory period of the French Revolution.

After the Prussian victory in the Franco-Prussian War and the Otto von Bismarck engineered unification of Germany under Prussian King William I as the new German Kaiser, Mulhouse was annexed to the German Empire as part of the territory of Alsace-Lorraine (1870–1918). The city was briefly occupied by French troops on 8 August 1914 at the start of World War I, but they were forced to withdraw two days later in the Battle of Mulhouse. Alsace-Lorraine was invaded and reacquired by France after World War I. It was occupied and annexed by Nazi Germany after the Battle of France in 1940, until returned to France at the close of the war in 1945.
Weapons produced in Mulhausen are of extremely high Quality. One needs only to handle one to see. Their MR73 being one of the best 357 revolvers ever made. Also the SIG 550 series they produced are exceptional high quality. They also made for SIG a PE90. I view their high polish finish on a par with the early SIG Nuehausen finishes on the P210. There being no ethnic differences between the people who make them.
 

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Manurhin Sport 22

Hello everyone!
This is my first participation in a forum, ever, so please excuse my prolixity. Also, forgive my limitations with the English language for my native language is Portuguese.
I decided to organize my gun collection so I’m taking notes of details of the more relevant pieces. I own a dozen Walthers: P38s, PPs, PPK, PPK/S, TPH, P5, GSP, PP Sport and a Manurhin Sport 22. After reading some articles on books and magazines I’ve kept, and researching in the net, I haven’t solved a problem yet: When (approximately) was my Manurhin Sport 22 made? According to an article by James Rankin on the 3rd Edition of Gun Collector’s Digest (“Walther & Manurhin - The Story of the Postwar PP and PPK Pistol”), after 1956, Interarms started importing the pistols into the US and they begun displaying the Walther banner on the slide and the inscription “Mark II” along with “made in France” indication ; so my pistol should have been made before that, which I’m not convinced. One thing I’ve just noticed on the 1970 marked PP Sport, the 1968 marked PP (32acp) and on the Manurhin (postwar PP series I have), was a long number stamped on left side of the frame, under the grip panels, on the recess along the hammer spring. It doesn’t coincide with any part of the serial number; maybe some control number of the parts made in France to be adjusted and finished elsewhere. Anyways, to avoid writing a book, below are the details and markings on my piece (I’ve had it for over 25 years) to see if anyone can help me identify it (date wise). I don’t know how to post pictures. I can try it if someone would like to see them.

Barrel length: 8 ¼”
S/n: 64237C stamped on the frame, behind the trigger ONLY.
The long number on the grip frame is: 170301 (the “3” is up-side-down)
Wide hammer spur; Single-action only. Adjustable rear sight (big slot screw heads)
It also came with a barrel weight that looks like it’s an aftermarket piece (square bottom, round top, sandwich steel connected by 2 allen head screws.
It has the logo target grip and the magazine is stamped with the word “France” (same unusual type as on “Made in France”)
On the left side of the slide it reads:

MANUFACTURE DE MACHINES MANURHIN LIC.EXCL WALTHER
DU HAUT-RHIN LOGO MOD. Sport Cal. .22 LR
Made in France

It does NOT have any French proofs, on the contrary, I is stamped on the chamber, the frame (by the s/n) and on the slide (just above the magazine release button) with the postwar German eagle over “N”. This pistol was bought with an extra 8 ¼” barrel also stamped with the German proof. (whatever the previous owner had in mind…)
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Welcome aboard, Orso -- happy to have you share you Walther success with us. Can you post photos? We'd sure love to see some pictures of your firearms. If you check out the Housekeeping/New Members sub-section, you'll find a thread on how to post.

Your English is excellent, by the way. :) Do enjoy your time here.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
That's a lovely PP Sport; thanks for posting it. Many of us have had good luck writing directly to Walther in Germany to get a born-on date for a particular pistol. I'd go that route; the company continues to keep detailed records:

Company website:

http://www.carl-walther.de/

Company name: Carl WALTHER GmbH Sportwaffen
Country: Germany
City: Arnsberg
Street: Donnerfeld 2
Region: Nordrhein-Westfalen
Postal code: 59757

Phone(s): +49 731 1539109 (fax)
+49 731 15390

Service

+49 2932 638149 (fax)
+49 2932 638100

Email: http://2289.de.all-biz.info/en/message.php

or, more simply ...

[email protected]

WHen things are working properly, you generally will get a reply to an inquiry within 3 to 5 business days. Good luck.
 
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