[kraigster414]

It would seem that the Don Guide Rod (s/s 3-inch rod, separate bushing, and non-captured coil spring could be easily modified (a tweak to the bushing) to work in the P99 4 in. Has anyone researched this or spoken with Don? Don couples his rod and bushing with a Springfield Armory 1911 20 and 22 pound coil spring. 22# is the most popular with the XD 4 inch Service model..

It seems like a lot of folks would like to have options when it comes to using recoil spring assembly in the P99 - especially me - I haven't even shot my new P99 9mm yet and I already have a defective recoil spring assembly right out of the box (separate thread for those interested). Not good and I ain't happy.

 

[kraigster414]

Wow, this would be great if Don could provide. He is willing to work on a prototype.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=767944&posted=1#post767944

 

[jimmythebrain]

Steel Guide Rod

If you just want a steel guide rod, then there is a guy that will make a stainless steel guide rod for the Walther P99 (captured) for $35, and will make a non-captured rod for about $25 (return shipping included in the price). He made a stainless captured rod for my 2nd generation P99 that is perfect. He received the factory rod and two days later shipped out the steel rod.

NAME: Steve Bedair, his website is Guiderod.com I found him on the Sig Sauer and Beretta forums, he has a great reputation on these forums. You have to email him as he does not list the Walther P99 recoil springs, but he makes them.

You send him the factory recoil rod and spring, he then makes a stainless recoil rod based on the measurements of the one that send him. No monkeying around getting one for a different model gun and then modifying it.
If you want different springs, etc. Then this would not be the way to go. He makes guide rods, not springs.

This is not intended to get a forum "battle" started as to whether or not you should get a steel recoil rod. Just information as to a great source for one if you decide that you want one.

 

[kraigster414]

Jimmy, I and others are well aware of Steve Bedair. I have his s/s rods in my Sigs and he is a super guy who makes a good product. I spoke to Steve recently and it's true he will make up a captured s/s recoil assembly using the OEM spring but he indicated a non-captured recoil assembly is problematic with the flattened spring. I am not implying that we jury rig an XD part to fit a P99. If Don went ahead with his product (he needs certain measurements and if anyone with a caliper is willing to provide, come to the front of the line), it would be a dedicated recoil assembly for the P99, the first non-captured system using coil springs that I am aware of. By having the ability to change coil springs you have more latitude in controlling recoil and matching bullet to gun. Don would do the spring testing - as in the case of the XD Service, the Springfield Armory 1911 spring may work.

Don needs the diameter of the hole in the slide, the diameter of the bore in the hood of the slide, and maybe the thickness of the front of the slide. This is for starters. Can anyone provide?

If anyone wants to contact Don directly his email is:

[email protected]

 

[MGMike]

Excuse me, but if he is serious about it, the first thing he needs to do is BUY a P99 for reference and testing. How else will he know if his product works, and does not damage the gun? If he is relying on second-hand measurements from the internet he might as well work blindfolded, and consult an astrologer for the results.

Or does he expect his customers to do his beta testing?

M

 

[kraigster414]

Excuse me, but if he is serious about it, the first thing he needs to do is BUY a P99 for reference and testing. How else will he know if his product works, and does not damage the gun? If he is relying on second-hand measurements from the internet he might as well work blindfolded, and consult an astrologer for the results.

Or does he expect his customers to do his beta testing?

M

He would not do without experimenting on an actual gun, that's a given. I am hoping that someone with a P99 will drop by his shop for starters. Don is a pro and if he can't do, he won't. His part for the XD is widely used, it has contributed to the popularity of the XD, and it went through exhaustive testing before being offered to the general public.

I think it's time we spread our wings a little with the P99. I'd like to see more after-market accessories available. It contributes to the enjoyment of owning this fine gun and attracts new converts to the P99 fold.

 

[MGMike]

I think it's time we spread our wings a little with the P99. I'd like to see more after-market accessories available. It contributes to the enjoyment of owning this fine gun and attracts new converts to the P99 fold.

Why? What is wrong with the gun the way it is? Don't you think that if a steel guide rod were needed, that a highly experienced designer like Horst Wesp would have used one?

And why does anybody have to be converted? You make it sound like a religion.

M

 

[kraigster414]

Why? What is wrong with the gun the way it is? Don't you think that if a steel guide rod were needed, that a highly experienced designer like Horst Wesp would have used one?

And why does anybody have to be converted? You make it sound like a religion.

M

Easy Mike. Don't take my words too literally. Gaston Glock is another "experienced designer" yet I had his recoil spring assembly fall apart after 300 rounds in a brand new G27 as have others. I switched to the Wolf non-captured recoil spring assembly and the factory rated Wolf spring and have never looked back as far as my G27.

I am not saying there is inherently anything wrong with the Walther/S&W 99 part other than the fact that it looks flimsy as hell and I've already had a problem with mine (half of the blue circular end piece was missing and I haven't even fired the gun yet). And while I am firm believer that for carry you should keep your gun stock as much as possible, the ability to change springs for competition or to better control recoil at the range can enhance performance and just makes shooting that more fun.

As for Horst Wesp, with a name like that you gotta have a sense of humor - say it fast a couple of times and it sounds like Horse Whipped. If you like your gun just the way it is, that's the way it should stay. At the range, I am all for a little safe experimentation. For carry, I will defer to Horse Whipped.

 

[MGMike]

I've never met Horst Wesp (pronounced "Vesp") but he is one of the world's top-ranking firearms designers. He was (and might still be) the chief designer at Walther and before that for many years at Steyr, with a short stint in between at Glock. He was one of the principal designers of the Steyr AUG, as well as the Walther P99. He probably has forgotten more about springs than most people will ever learn.

The flat coil spring in the Glock (from which the P99's was obviously derived) is not a new idea, as it appeared much earlier in another Austrian pistol, the Steyr-Hahn of 1911. In all three cases, howevcer, it was selected to obtain a specific rate calculated for that particular gun, which experimenting amateurs are unlikely to improve on.

If you are willing to risk damage to the spring seat in the plastic frame of your P99 just for the novelty of using a stainless guide rod, don't let me discourage you. Go for it. And please do let us know a thousand rounds from now how it worked out.

M

 

[kraigster414]

I've never met Horst Wesp (pronounced "Vesp") but he is one of the world's top-ranking firearms designers. He was (and might still be) the chief designer at Walther and before that for many years at Steyr, with a short stint in between at Glock. He was one of the principal designers of the Steyr AUG, as well as the Walther P99. He probably has forgotten more about springs than most people will ever learn.

The flat coil spring in the Glock (from which the P99's was obviously derived) is not a new idea, as it appeared much earlier in another Austrian pistol, the Steyr-Hahn of 1911. In all three cases, howevcer, it was selected to obtain a specific rate calculated for that particular gun, which experimenting amateurs are unlikely to improve on.

If you are willing to risk damage to the spring seat in the plastic frame of your P99 just for the novelty of using a stainless guide rod, don't let me discourage you. Go for it. And please do let us know a thousand rounds from now how it worked out.

M

Mike, come on ok? The exact same thing was applied to the XD Service - plastic frame, captured OEM recoil assembly, s/s non-captured replacement part and conventional coil spring. People have been using the DGR in the XD for years with no reported problems, let alone damage to their frames. Have you ever seen a DGR/fired an XD with one installed? You are getting way ahead of yourself. The proof is in the design so before you start talking about damaging your gun by using a yet-to-be-made non-OEM part, let's see what the product looks like assuming it ever gets off the ground. It may not.

Wolf also knows more about springs than most people will ever learn but the OEM die-hards wouldn't dare use a Wolf spring in their gun vice the OEM for fear they'll fall off the edge of the earth or worse.

 

[MGMike]

Hey, I'm just a great believer in the ideas that it's better to avoid problems than to solve them, and that the promiscuous substitution of aftermarket parts is a good way to create them.

Incidentally, I am not a big fan of Wolff springs. Most of their springs that I have examined that are said to duplicate the factory original are in fact not identical. Wire diameter and the number of coils are often different, and Wolff does not bother to close and grind the ends. I resort to Wolff springs only when there is absolutely no factory replacement available.

 

[jimmythebrain]

Please stop the arguing!

There is a clear breakdown here. The post is not about whether the guide rod and or springs should be changed. Kraigster just would like an option to change if he wants to. It is his gun, his hands, eyes, etc. that will be damaged if the gun malfunctions after not so thoughtful modification.

The posting of caution about possible unsafe changes is wise advise and the assertion that there is nothing wrong with the stock guide rod system is a correct factual statement that certainly should be injected into a discussion about modifying parts of our guns. But the back and forth uses up a lot of screen space.

This is sounding like the 1911 forums with the godlike worship of Browning and the perfectness of his original design vs the hoards of people that want to change their guns, whether it be looks or performance. Each side arguing, but neither side ever changing their minds. Can we please agree to disagree. If one person changes their gun, it does not diminish the quality of the gun another person owns.

I for one would like the option to increase the recoil spring power in my P99 since I have a 357 Sig barrel for it. The 357 Sig seems to beat the frame up with the stock P99 spring (With my conversion barrel I am taking risk when I use a non-stock barrel to shoot my P99 with a non-stock cartridge. I am informed). I read on the forum that the 9 MM and the 40 S&W models use the same spring but the 40 caliber has a heavier slide to compensate for the increased recoil. If this is true, then I need a higher rated recoil spring, since I cannot increase the weight of the slide further (or can I?).

Any additional accessories would be nice as well. The Walther P99 is my favorite handgun, but it is very hard to find extra "goodies" for.

This is not a criticism, but arguing back and forth is not helpful for our stress levels or blood pressures. Lets choose to be happy and healthy. Enjoy shooting.

 

[kraigster414]

Note Jimmy that I let Mike have the last word. I happen to agree with you. When I asked whether he had ever seen the DGR, better yet shot an XD with it installed and got no response I thought it best to call it a day. No harm, no biggie. I'll stay in touch with Don and see if he has any interest in pursuing.

 

[Soybomb]

So whats with you guys and guide rods. Has one person ever posted here with an issue with their guide rod breaking during service otherwise causing a gun failure?

 

[MGMike]

We have already been saturated with equanimity and goodness on this topic. Why do you want to stir it up again? Go home and fix a drink.

M

 

[kraigster414]

Without re-opening the tired debate on the pros and cons of ater-market parts, 'just wanted folks to know that Don provided the following response at the XD forum regarding his possible work on a DGR system (similar in design to the DGR for the XD) for the P99. In the meantime, I am having Steve Bedair make a s/s captured recoil spring assembly using the OEM P99 spring ($35). For the Steyr M A-1 owners out there a fellow by the name of Big Taco (check out the Steyr Club forum) has been making a captured recoil spring assembly that is very popular. He too uses the OEM spring with a s/s rod, also a captured design. Ditto for Glockmeister and others for the Glock.

(From Don) kraigster: I did check out the forum link from your email and there are some wound tight, but no problems. I am viewing this as a basic proof of concept. If I can prototype something that works for one person, then I would buy a pistol to work out the details. But even owning a single pistol, short of buying tens of pistols no one can get a good dimensional deviation so all aftermarket developers have to rely on many others for prototypes.
I would never had made a guide rod for sale if not for the support of this forum. Always thanks to the early adopters as they pave the way for the later owners! Those that helped got free parts, and the initial prototypers can always email me for upgrades if I have them.

 

[Jake Starr]

We have already been saturated with equanimity and goodness on this topic. Why do you want to stir it up again? Go home and fix a drink.

Man, I love this forum....

 

[kraigster414]

'Received several private messages from folks who would like to work with Don on a possible P99 project. My advice would be to email him directly and express your interest. Don is a great guy and IMHO, his DGR for the XD has contributed to that gun's popularity. His email address:

[email protected]

Have fun.