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I still like my Caniks but decided to go again with Walther after selling my Q sometime ago.


I have a PPQ M2 5-inch coming and am wondering if it's OK to shoot steel-cased ammo, i.e. Tula, given the cheaper cost. I've read mixed opinions on steel vs brass and the possible wear and tear and FTF FTE issues encountered with the former. I can shoot steel all day through my Caniks without a problem.



Sorry if this might be covered in another thread but it's been awhile since I've visited this forum.
 

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I still like my Caniks but decided to go again with Walther after selling my Q sometime ago.


I have a PPQ M2 5-inch coming and am wondering if it's OK to shoot steel-cased ammo, i.e. Tula, given the cheaper cost. I've read mixed opinions on steel vs brass and the possible wear and tear and FTF FTE issues encountered with the former. I can shoot steel all day through my Caniks without a problem.



Sorry if this might be covered in another thread but it's been awhile since I've visited this forum.
RTFM. Walther has already answered your question. ;)
However, regardless, if that's what you wanna do, and your PPQ can feed it reliably, it's your pistol, do what you want ;)
 

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Will the PPQ shoot steel cased ammo? Probably. Will it give you the best performance? Without testing it against brass cased ammo you'll never know. I personally have not been please with Tula ammo in any gun. I have a theory behind that, which would take too long to explain. I suggest you do a comparison test with some other ammo. I personally find I get good results from Sellier & Bellot and Fiocchi, both under $10 a box from Bud’s. In doing an ammo test on my new PPQ SC, I found it does not like Blazer Aluminum. My PPQ M1 didn’t like Federal HST at first but after it was broken in they run fine.
 

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I have a PPQ M2 5-inch coming and am wondering if it's OK to shoot steel-cased ammo, i.e. Tula, given the cheaper cost.
Define "OK".

There have been reports of issues with PPQ pistols running steel cased ammunition. There have also been reports in those same threads where people ran the same ammunition with no issues.

I personally would not use any steel cased ammunition through any defensive pistols. Steel cased ammunition, for one reason or another, tends to stick to the chamber, and is more likely to cause double-feed or failure to extract malfunctions. This leads to more wear on the extractor, and hard-to-clear malfunctions. This is not something I would want to subject a carry or defensive pistol to, even if the steel cased ammunition was just used for practice.
 

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I don't know but I have always been able to find American made quality brass cased ammo like Federal American Eagle for the same or less than steel cased ammo. I took advantage of the 25 percent off rebate on AE last year and bought 4 cases for $7.11 a box of 50. These days it is closer to $9.25 a box bought by the case.

I would bet that American Eagle and Speer Lawman are more accurate that steel cased ammo if that is a concern but the primary reason I don't consider it is for the reasons Balance stated about increased wear of certain parts and possible reduced reliability.
 

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+1, spend the extra couple bucks a box and practice with what your pistol was made to function optimally with.

If you’re blowing through ammo too quickly, consider the efficiency of your practice and invest in a shot timer to keep yourself focused on results.
 

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This leads to more wear on the extractor

I thought steel cased ammo was made of a softer steel than the steel on the extractor? I wish someone could set the record straight on this because I've never really known what to believe. Regardless, I don't use steel case ammo in any of my pistols either. The cost of 9mm brass ammo is extremely reasonable these days and the only steel cased ammo I shoot or buy is 7.62x39. Everything else is brass.
 

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I thought steel cased ammo was made of a softer steel than the steel on the extractor? I wish someone could set the record straight on this because I've never really known what to believe. Regardless, I don't use steel case ammo in any of my pistols either. The cost of 9mm brass ammo is extremely reasonable these days and the only steel cased ammo I shoot or buy is 7.62x39. Everything else is brass.
The link below was a test done by Lucky Gunner with brass vs steel cased ammo, but the test was done with rifles (Bushmaster model BCWA3F MOE). The brass cased ammo was superior in reliability, accuracy, barrel erosion/wear, and probably also extractor life. You can read the entire results for yourself and make up your own mind. But for me, since brass cased ammo was superior in reliability, accuracy, and in barrel life (probably also extractor life), that means no steel cased ammo for my firearms.

If the question comes down to which ammo for use in a defensive situation, it is an obvious no-brainer to avoid steel cased ammo for defensive uses (brass cased ammo had way superior reliability - 100% in fact).

Reliability-table.jpg

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
 

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I thought steel cased ammo was made of a softer steel than the steel on the extractor?
It normally is, but I don't believe it is the hardness of the steel that causes the wear issues, but the fact that the casings tend to stick to the chamber. The extractor is doing that much more work trying to get them out of there, and imagine the amount of stress put on the extractor hook when the casing is stuck in the chamber so tightly that the extractor hook goes over the casing as the slide cycles to the rear. If it doesn't, that's even worse, as I've heard of people who have had the extractors rip the case heads off of stuck steel casings in the chamber, and that's a malfunction that's practically impossible to clear without special tools.

I don't have one test that I can look at to come up with this conclusion. This is what I've gathered, personally, from reports of others using steel cased ammunition, as well as conversations with people who seemed to know what they were talking about. What I do know, is that far too many people seem to have issues with steel casings sticking in the chamber, that stuck casings put more stress on the extractor, and that a stuck casing is probably the worse type of malfunction you can have on a defensive pistol, short of a parts breakage. I wouldn't want to practice with steel cased ammunition, much less use it as a defensive load.
 

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Define "OK".

There have been reports of issues with PPQ pistols running steel cased ammunition. There have also been reports in those same threads where people ran the same ammunition with no issues.

I personally would not use any steel cased ammunition through any defensive pistols. Steel cased ammunition, for one reason or another, tends to stick to the chamber, and is more likely to cause double-feed or failure to extract malfunctions. This leads to more wear on the extractor, and hard-to-clear malfunctions. This is not something I would want to subject a carry or defensive pistol to, even if the steel cased ammunition was just used for practice.

I have run steel cased ammunition from American and overseas companies and have never had any problem with them feeding or extracting. I do occasionally clean and very lightly lube my chambers every few weeks or so and I shoot almost every day. I can't speak to big hollow points in handguns, even in brass because I've just had too many failures to feed with the biggest widest hollow points. No problems with truncated or soft nose ammunition.
The one problem I do run into with Tulammo is that it seems to be weak and does not function my ARs as well as NATO spec M193 or M855 but I have put lighter buffers and lighter buffer springs just to make them work but I've returned them all to normal and don't use that ammo in my AR's. In the AK variants and my SKS it works flawlessly...
Was shooting steel cased 45 ball in my Walther PPQ M2 45 last night at about 22 degrees F and had no problems. Also shot some Winchester or Remington 9mm steel case I got from Walmart yesterday for $8 something/box of 50 - a ridiculously low price for ammo in Alaska. It worked fine in my Sig P229 and my MK-25 with and without a suppressor.
I don't buy into the hatred of steel.. nor do I believe it will wear out your chamber quicker unless you roll it in valve lapping compound (or shoot dirty ammo).
 

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I don't buy into the hatred of steel.. nor do I believe it will wear out your chamber quicker unless you roll it in valve lapping compound (or shoot dirty ammo).
I appreciate your report on your experiences with steel cased ammunition.

My only issue with your post is the word "hatred". Hatred implies the decision was made off of emotion. I've heard of too many stories of multiple people having multiple issues with steel cased ammunition on certain pistols, and the part of their stories that always stuck with me was the part where the pistols only ever had consistent issues with steel cased ammunition.

I believe steel cased ammunition is the cause of issues on many pistols. Some pistols have tighter chambers than others, and I've noticed that steel casings tend to cause more issues on pistols or rifles that have more straight-walled chambers than on pistols or rifles with more tapered chambers. Walther is one of the few manufacturers that use a stepped chamber in their 9mm models.

Here is an interesting test done on four otherwise identical AR rifles. The only difference between them was the type of ammunition shot through them. Notice the wear on the extractor, as well as the double feed malfunctions, almost certainly due to the casings sticking in the chamber. Notice how the rifle firing brass cased ammunition didn't suffer from these issues.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
 

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I regularly purchase Winchester steel ammo from the wally world for about $22 per 150. Both my Q5 match and my Q4 tactical eat it no questions asked (I go through about 200 rounds a week, mostly with the Q5) my H&K VP9 however gets steel casings lodged all the time. Federal brass is my next go to at $34 for 200, but that's only when it's on sale and in stock. I've noticed no performance difference or reliability change (some light primer strikes on the brass but not in awhile). these aren't precision rifles, as long as I can hit a 5" circle at 10-20 yards I'm happy.
 

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Steel case

I appreciate your report on your experiences with steel cased ammunition.

My only issue with your post is the word "hatred". Hatred implies the decision was made off of emotion. I've heard of too many stories of multiple people having multiple issues with steel cased ammunition on certain pistols, and the part of their stories that always stuck with me was the part where the pistols only ever had consistent issues with steel cased ammunition.

I believe steel cased ammunition is the cause of issues on many pistols. Some pistols have tighter chambers than others, and I've noticed that steel casings tend to cause more issues on pistols or rifles that have more straight-walled chambers than on pistols or rifles with more tapered chambers. Walther is one of the few manufacturers that use a stepped chamber in their 9mm models.

Here is an interesting test done on four otherwise identical AR rifles. The only difference between them was the type of ammunition shot through them. Notice the wear on the extractor, as well as the double feed malfunctions, almost certainly due to the casings sticking in the chamber. Notice how the rifle firing brass cased ammunition didn't suffer from these issues.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

I apologize then for using that word. It was not meant towards you but rather towards the overly emotional people I shoot with who will not even consider using aluminum or steel cased ammo in anything that they shoot.

I recently qualified for a training class using a mix of steel and aluminum cased 45 FMJ in my PPQ M2 45. I'm kind of weird like that but knew my abilities at what was a rather close qualifying distance... I think 20 yards was the farthest distance of the three stages at one of those huge man sized targets. At 64 I was the old man of the class and was not exactly chastised by people but at least five of the 18 people in the class were surprised that I was going to shoot such an important event with mixed and "crap" ammo. I outshot the other 17 in the class... I'm at the range almost everyday for hours, I run a small gun and ammo store and like to shoot.... The instructor told us not to waste any shots by being tricky or trying head shots. At the close, maybe seven yard target I did a Mel Gibson smiley face in the head. The grin was a little crooked and the instructor ( a shooting friend of mind) told me after that stage to knock it off, that I might be setting a bad example for the others. The next two stages I was a good boy...
Sorry about the miscommunication with the word "hatred", but again it was not directed at you but rather at a culture at our range. It gets cold and dark up here in Alaska.. I think I might need one of those SAD lights or more vitamin B.
 

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RTFM. Walther has already answered your question. ;)
However, regardless, if that's what you wanna do, and your PPQ can feed it reliably, it's your pistol, do what you want ;)
So I read the manual, again, and maybe I'm dense.

Use only ammunition corresponding to the caliber of the weapon and which conforms to the provisions of C.I.P. or SAAMI.
Nothing about steel or brass cases.

I have a box of Winchester "USA Forged" ammunition. Look surprised me, but seems to match what's online. Price is certainly not worth looking specifically for. Stars and stripes doesn't get my interest either.

But I'd like to know it I'm risking anything feeding to to my new Q5.
 
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