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Discussion Starter #21
I wish the PPK were like the 1911 in the sense that everyone and their grandmother manufactured them, then finding a quality PPK wouldn't require folks to either buy an old one or pray that the next generation is better than the last.
 

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... I'd hate to see enthusiasm for the brand diminish to a collectors only arrangement.

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Well, Moon, sorry to say that that's what's happened. The P99 and PPQ (and maybe the PPS) are competitive with what the other major manufacturers are offering, and maybe they are as good or better. I offer no opinion on that, as those guns are just plastic-handled tools to me.

As for the rest of the Walther line, and what is to come, just visualize the German answer to Taurus.

M
 

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Discussion Starter #23
What's wrong with Taurus exactly? They seem to make good guns and I've been considering buying the Taurus PT92 eventually on account of it being cheaper than a Beretta 92FS and arguably a better gun according to some.
 

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Point taken, Mike. I had the PP series specifically in mind. In my defense, I do actually shoot mine.
As a shooter, a Deutscher Taurus (or pretty frankly, a Filipino PP) is not entirely a bad idea. The Filipino 1911s are actually made more the way traditional weapons were made here 60 years ago. I had a Springfield/Phillipine GI-clone that gave nothing away to a wartime Remington Rand, tho' it surely didn't have a highgloss commercial Colt finish.
Not saying such things would pass muster here for collectibility, but as a gun to be used as a gun, it might well have merit. I'd be thrilled if the Umarex PPs came out as well as the Filipino 1911s.
Moon
ETA- Mike, also concur on the 'plastic handled tools'. I extend the same affection to my Glocks as I do to a good claw hammer. They're tools, pure and simple. Very good tools, but tools.
M
 

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What's wrong with Taurus exactly? They seem to make good guns and I've been considering buying the Taurus PT92 eventually on account of it being cheaper than a Beretta 92FS and arguably a better gun according to some.
Actually, the only Taurus I still have is a PT92 made about 25 years ago when Taurus was still faithfully building Beretta clones in a factory purchased from Beretta. It's been a good gun.

The newer models are, well, South American Umarex.

M
 

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... The Filipino 1911s are actually made more the way traditional weapons were made here 60 years ago. I had a Springfield/Phillipine GI-clone that gave nothing away to a wartime Remington Rand, tho' it surely didn't have a highgloss commercial Colt finish.
... I'd be thrilled if the Umarex PPs came out as well as the Filipino 1911s.
Moon
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At the last NRA show I examined a whole tableful of the Philippine .45s ("Rock Island", not "Springfield"--which come from Brazil) , and I cannot say that I share your optimism.

The Remington-Rand WWII guns were superbly made and rigorously inspected before military acceptance. They were not intended to have fine external finish, but internally they are first-class, and engineered for utmost reliability. The Philippine guns don't look, sound or feel their equal. Just my opinion; YMMV.

M
 

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It is a shame with the Taurus as their 111G2 is a nicely designed gun & works fine, but forget extra parts. It is a lot like the P99c or P 99 with the second strike capability. The one I had worked great in every way, but if you have trouble with them, forget it.

It is not the same with Bersa as I have had real good luck with my 380 Bersa's.
 

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At the last NRA show I examined a whole tableful of the Philippine .45s ("Rock Island", not "Springfield"--which come from Brazil) , and I cannot say that I share your optimism. ...
It's hard to mess up on producing a 1911 in the year of 2016. If a weapon design is around long enough, copiers will perfect their design over the years. Rifles are the same way as handguns. Take a ar15... Colt was king in the 80s. Now you have at least a dozen or some companies which produces equal if not superior product.
 

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I would make book that the new ones are going to be closer to $800 than $400.
If that happens, they've already priced themselves out of the market before they started. Very few are going to buy it whom aren't collectors, Walther enthusiast, have prior knowledge. You can get a sig, hk, Glock within the ballpark.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
@MGM, Could you be more specific? I have limited experience with Umarex because I only own one of their guns, and unfortunately my experience with it so far has been decidedly positive all things considered, plus my brother owns a Taurus Judge which I've handled and it feels like a quality piece, so what do they do wrong?
Pardon my ignorance.
 

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It's hard to mess up on producing a 1911 in the year of 2016. If a weapon design is around long enough, copiers will perfect their design over the years. Rifles are the same way as handguns. Take a ar15... Colt was king in the 80s. Now you have at least a dozen or some companies which produces equal if not superior product.
I believe the contrary. There are a thousand pitfalls, and more people who think it's simple tumble into them than avoid them.

M
 

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I believe the contrary. There are a thousand pitfalls, and more people who think it's simple tumble into them than avoid them.

M
So what your saying is companies such as rock island, Taurus, bersa, etc etc & the smaller arms dealers who make upper & lower rifle parts... Don't know what their doing?
 

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@MGM, Could you be more specific? I have limited experience with Umarex because I only own one of their guns, and unfortunately my experience with it so far has been decidedly positive all things considered, plus my brother owns a Taurus Judge which I've handled and it feels like a quality piece, so what do they do wrong?
Pardon my ignorance.
Re Umarex: I am not sure how to interpret "decidedly positive all things considered"; is that an unqualified endorsement?

Re Taurus: all of the Millenium Pro pistols have been recalled for refund because there is no "fix".

M
 

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Sorry my personal experiences with something doesn't adhere to your arbitrary standards.

At any rate, this thread is getting off-topic, so let's try to go back to discussing the Fort Smith PPKs and try to avoid inclusion of irrelevant personal biases.
 

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Mike, my Springer was an older one, and conventional wisdom at the time was that they were Filipino; I believe mine was so marked. I shot it a great deal, and the only issue I ever had was adjusting the extractor tension.

Back on Walthers; the question will be if Umarex can build a functioning example of the PP series. It's a given it won't have the oldtimey level of fit and finish. And the degree that our Walthers have indeed become collector's items was a Ranger PPK/s .32 on Gunbroker that went for $1800. For that kind of money, it's hard to justify shooting an example, let alone carrying it.
Moon
 

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Mike, my Springer was an older one, and conventional wisdom at the time was that they were Filipino; I believe mine was so marked. ...
Moon, the Springfield Armory Inc. M1911A1 guns are well-made guns; I had one that I liked, and presented it to a friend as a gift. But they have always come from the Brazilian arsenal at Itajuba, not from the Philippines.

M
 

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How far back does this go? I bought a new Springfield M1911A1 in about '95. It flew apart on the third shot. I picked up the parts, inspected, put it back together, hand cycled it....every thing seemed ok. Loaded one round and it flew apart again. I have never figured out how that could happen. Took it back to where I purchased it. Sales guy asked what's wrong. I said it flys apart if you fire it. He pulled back the slide and let go of it, and.....it kept going too, along with the barrel, take down pin... recoil spring, etc. Just like that I said. M1911
 

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So what your saying is companies such as rock island, Taurus, bersa, etc etc & the smaller arms dealers who make upper & lower rifle parts... Don't know what their doing?
I would say a better translation would be "They don't care." When cost becomes the number one concern of any business, quality is the first thing that suffers.

I had a RIA 1911 and it was a good gun for the money. My Colt which cost a good bit more is a great gun for the money.
 
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