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I am in great doubt about an information presented in this video by Legacy Collectibles about the Czech Police 1939 contract PP/PPK guns. In my collection I have a PPK with the same markings (N crown, Czech lion, number in ejection port, manufactured and proofed 1939) and for years I have been sure it is a commercial gun sold in Czechoslovakia or later Protectorate. Then I came across this video and started to verify the information presented there. I was unable to find any documents or mention about this "contract" here in Czech. The info on 1:27 is definitely incorrect, the number in the ejection port is not a "Police number" as suggested, but the proof protocol number. Also the rest of the story sounds a little bit confusing. If anyone has any detailed info about this contract, please share it with me. I am very interested in this story. Anyway, until I see relevant information or documents, I am very suspicious about this so called "rare variation".


This is the video:
And the picture of the PPK from my collection is attached.
 

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You are correct. The pistols displaying the Czech acceptance proof, date and number are simply import sales, not a police contract. Legacy was informed of this misunderstanding, but I guess has not taken down the video.
 

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It is not the first time a leading dealer in both items and information has presented information increasing the value of a piece that is debated. It has been done with iron crosses, guns and other war memorabilia. The question you have to ask is it done for profit or is it out of ignorance? I do not know.
 

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Ok, I am not into "exposing" or blaming the dealers, I was just interested in the story. As the story itself looked very strange to me (I am living in Czech and have similar pistol). And although I was quite sure it is incorrect, I wanted to ask more collectors here whether I am missing something important. Thank you.
 

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It is not the first time a leading dealer in both items and information has presented information increasing the value of a piece that is debated. It has been done with iron crosses, guns and other war memorabilia. The question you have to ask is it done for profit or is it out of ignorance? I do not know.
Legacy Collectibles has consistently strived to educate collectors with their videos. Czech import marked Walthers are not common IMO and they apparently concluded the numbering indicated a police issue number.
 

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Legacy Collectibles has consistently strived to educate collectors with their videos. Czech import marked Walthers are not common IMO and they apparently concluded the numbering indicated a police issue number.
I watch their videos too. That is why I stated the two possibilities and summed it up with "I do not know". Simply stating it has been done before.
 

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I recently became aware of this thread and have been looking into the issue. I am always happy to learn something new and happy to correct the video if I stated something in error. In the future, feel free to comment to me directly thru YouTube. I am on several forums and generally not on this one, until someone brought the discrepancy to my attention. I will first look into this and then amend the video as needed within the next couple of days.
First, some background: I have collected Walthers for about 30 years. About 10 years ago I became aware of the VERY rare Czech variation. The collectors who mentored me in this hobby all called it a Czech Police gun. I never had anyone contradict this theory to me until I did this video. The conclusion I believe was based on the fact that the CZ-27 Police guns have similar markings. So this is not something I just made up.

Most of what I have learned about Walthers has been passed down to me by older collectors who I respect. Now, I AM that older collector, teaching the younger generation so I definitely want to get it right. Please give me a few days to sort this out and then I will either correct or delete the video.
Either way, it is a rare variation and desirable to collectors such as myself.
Finally, let me just point out that much of what we believe about Walthers is passed down to us by books and by other collectors. Can you PROVE the RJ PP went to the Reichs Justice, or that the DRP went to Postal inspectors? Why do you believe that? Where is the documentation?. Much of what we believe is based on educated guesses. I think the Czech Police theory was based on an educated guess by a collector many years ago. I thought it seemed logical. Please forgive if I made and error. There to NO intent to deceive.
 

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Legacy makes an excellent point about the knowledge/identification of our Walthers. But rather than calling it an educated guess, I think the term circumstantial evidence would be more appropriate. For the most part we have no specific documentation of pistols ordered by Walther for engraving but we infer the authenticity of certain engraved Walthers by circumstantial evidence that the serial number of the gun is in a range of other known Walther ordered engraved pistols. Likewise, there is no known evidence of a contract between Walther and the early Sicherheitspolizei for the purchase of Walther PPs and PPKs now called SS/RSHA guns, but we can infer the authenticity of those pistols and later purchases by the physical characteristics of the guns that are identical to the physical characteristics of PPKs that were documented as issued to officers of the Sicherheitspolizei from archival records.
 
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Finally, let me just point out that much of what we believe about Walthers is passed down to us by books and by other collectors. Can you PROVE the RJ PP went to the Reichs Justice, or that the DRP went to Postal inspectors? Why do you believe that? Where is the documentation?

Cited in the books. _I_ can't personally prove it, but the authors of the books did actual research and have the sources and citations and actual physical evidence.
Much (I'm gonna be polite and don't say all) of what "old folks" and "collectors" have passed down is hogwash and nonsense. Like the story that CYQ's where made in Berlin on rail car equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
LegacyCollectibles: Collecting the firearms for a couple of years, I am always trying to learn as much of a background as possible. It is a part of the fun in this game for me. I came across a lot of information from older collectors, from books, from web pages and videos, from various sources. I have realised, that it is easy to shift / misunderstand the information. Remember people believing in "SS Black Widows byfs"? I am not blaming anyone. And although it is sometimes not comfortable to be corrected, in the end I have always enjoyed it. I hope that you understand that I have brought this story to this forum not because I wanted to prove you are wrong, but because I was looking for an explanation. And for a more information about the gun I have. I tried to verify your story here in Czech and when I have failed to do so, I shared it here. Thank you for your great work. I do respect it.
 
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