What did you tell Walther when you spoke with them? What was their reason for not covering under warranty?
Slide coating is gone and recoil rod is bent after one ultrasonic cleaning. Please advise.
Hi folks, asking your help/suggestions here. Thanks in advance.
I got my PDP F series new but dirty, so I used CLP for a basic cleaning first. However that helped very little (My Initial Post). Fellow forum viewers suggested an ultrasonic cleaner. I tried that first with my other pistols and it worked fine (no damages to coating or rods). I then used it with the PDP F series (same method, half water & half simple green, for 5 minutes under 60 degree Celsius). The outlook is horrendous (pictures attached) when it was done!
The slide coating is deteriorated badly and the recoil rod is bent (two most obvious defects I can tell immediately). I contacted the Walther for the issues and they only suggested me to purchase a new rod/spring and re-coat the cerakote with an outside shop myself, no warranty replacement was offered.
I am disappointed with the quality of pistol and Walther's warranty. Am I expecting too much? What else can I do to improve my situation while saving additional expenses? I have not yet shot the gun ever since I got it from the FFL. Is it safe to use this pistol as its current condition (especially the bent recoil rod)?
Again, thanks in advance.
/CP
I got my PDP F series new but dirty, so I used CLP for a basic cleaning first. However that helped very little (My Initial Post). Fellow forum viewers suggested an ultrasonic cleaner. I tried that first with my other pistols and it worked fine (no damages to coating or rods). I then used it with the PDP F series (same method, half water & half simple green, for 5 minutes under 60 degree Celsius). The outlook is horrendous (pictures attached) when it was done!
The slide coating is deteriorated badly and the recoil rod is bent (two most obvious defects I can tell immediately). I contacted the Walther for the issues and they only suggested me to purchase a new rod/spring and re-coat the cerakote with an outside shop myself, no warranty replacement was offered.
I am disappointed with the quality of pistol and Walther's warranty. Am I expecting too much? What else can I do to improve my situation while saving additional expenses? I have not yet shot the gun ever since I got it from the FFL. Is it safe to use this pistol as its current condition (especially the bent recoil rod)?
Again, thanks in advance.
/CP
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1 - 20 of 75 Posts
Is it possible the guide rod is straight but the spring is making it appear bent?
The guide rod looks like a banana. If it were me, I'd replace it before shooting the gun.
What exactly did Walther tell you when you talked to them?
What exactly did Walther tell you when you talked to them?
I think your guide rod is ok.I have had similar conditions with other pistols with that particular design.As far as the finish,I doubt any manufacturer would warranty your situation.Your slide almost looks like it has been bead blasted.Well as rough as it is it should hold onto what ever finish you decide on.Sorry for your misfortune.
Which simple green did you use?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I find it interesting that CLP or some other gun cleaner wasn't enough to get your PDP-F clean and you had to resort to ultrasonic cleaning.
Ultra sonic cleaning has been known to ruin metals and finishes.
Ultrasonic Damage - Zenith Ultrasonics
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I find it interesting that CLP or some other gun cleaner wasn't enough to get your PDP-F clean and you had to resort to ultrasonic cleaning.
Ultra sonic cleaning has been known to ruin metals and finishes.
Ultrasonic Damage - Zenith Ultrasonics
This times 100.The guide rod looks like a banana. If it were me, I'd replace it before shooting the gun.
What exactly did Walther tell you when you talked to them?
Its a lousy feeling to get something out of the box, and not have it in the condition you expect. I picked up a Zenith ZF-5 a couple of weeks ago, and had to send it right back to Zenith because the charging handle would not charge. (Loose roll pin? Extractor issue? Don't know, tried to figure it out and send it back.) The big difference is that when it comes back, it'll be functioning 100%, and I'm happy that Zenith will have taken care of it.
Jimmo nailed it, I'm in the same boat and would replace as well. Do you happen to have any pictures of the gun when you received it? I'm just curious to see or understand what was on it that CLP or another cleaner could not get off. My hunch, without seeing any pictures, is that had you submitted a warranty claim with Walther before putting it in the ultrasonic cleaner, they likely would have acted favorably. If something was wrong (and it's entirely possible that it was, these things slip thru) the cleaner could have exacerbated the situation.
Honestly? I'd consider buying a new guide rod, spending $100 to cerakote the slide and frame, and chalking it up to experience, even though it sucks, and it's not what you want to hear. Oh...and for what it's worth, I'd continue to try to pursue it with Walther, and that brings it right back to what Jimmo said, but what exactly did Walther say?
Thanks for the prompt replies. This is the quote i got from Walther after I sending these photos.
"Unfortunately our warranty does not cover any damages to coatings or cosmetic blemishes, or anything that isn't a manufacturer defect. Since you did use an ultrasonic cleaner, the only solution we could suggest is purchasing a new recoil spring on our website and speak to a company about maybe putting a new cerakote on the slide."
"Unfortunately our warranty does not cover any damages to coatings or cosmetic blemishes, or anything that isn't a manufacturer defect. Since you did use an ultrasonic cleaner, the only solution we could suggest is purchasing a new recoil spring on our website and speak to a company about maybe putting a new cerakote on the slide."
The simple green I used is from Costco. It is sold as one spray and two "gallon jar" refill. I did a 50/50 from it with tap water.
My original web support request after the ultrasonic cleaning: "
Question or Comment:
They then asked me what oil I used. I told them that CLP and then ultrasonic cleaner. Eventually that is the reply I get. Did I use the ultrasonic incorrectly? How come my Canik (gray coated) survived but not Walther? Thanks /CP
Question or Comment:
"Purchased a PDP F-series 3.5" in March. Just cleaned it up this
week and found various issues. Never shot it so all observations are
visual so far. (1) barrel finish shows defects that there are discolorations
on feed ramp and barrel crown area. (2) Discolorations (oxidization?)
from locking block, trigger bar, and metal mechanism next to the ejector
bar. (3) Slides shows many coating defects (cerakote loss?) (4) gritty
trigger feel when the trigger is pulled. (5) recoil rod is longer than
frame causing the slide to tilt up when put together. Pictures available
if needed. Please help. Thank you. /CP
They then asked me what oil I used. I told them that CLP and then ultrasonic cleaner. Eventually that is the reply I get. Did I use the ultrasonic incorrectly? How come my Canik (gray coated) survived but not Walther? Thanks /CP
Did you put the guide rod in the ultrasonic cleaner?My original web support request after the ultrasonic cleaning: "
Question or Comment:
"
They then asked me what oil I used. I told them that CLP and then ultrasonic cleaner. Eventually that is the reply I get. Did I use the ultrasonic incorrectly? How come my Canik (gray coated) survived but not Walther? Thanks /CP
I don't use ultrasonic cleaners, and I've never used Simple Green on a firearm. Does the manual specify against the use of whatever chemicals are in Simple Green?
While I don't personally see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm, much less a new firearm, if this can occur while using common cleaning supplies, it should be known (which it now is), and it should be advised against.
How many other pistols have you subjected to this process? I've been wondering what type of finish/treatment they have been applying to the F-Series pistols made here in the US. Unfortunately, at least the outer finish looks like a step down in quality, as I recall members here using ultrasonic cleaners in the past for Walther pistols made in Ulm with no negative results. I remember a thread in the past where I mentioned that I would have preferred that manufacturing stay in Ulm rather than here in the US. This may be an example of why.
I don't see too much of a bend on that guide rod, but if there is one there, maybe someone can explain to me how an ultrasonic cleaner, the chemicals inside of it, or 140F of heat could make this happen. It looks like a similar recoil spring assembly to the one in my P99c, and I'm pretty sure I've gotten it around temperatures way hotter than 140F. The outer finish on these pistols doesn't do much as far as corrosion resistance (assuming that F-Series slides and barrels are nitrocarburized like the pistols made in Ulm), so I would probably just take the rest of the finish off and leave it.
I would definitely get this pistol to a gunsmith for inspection before even loading it, much less firing it. I'd ask the gunsmith to pay close attention to the channels on the inside of the slide. A loose piece of finish sticking out of the striker channel/breechface, or a loose piece of finish causing the firing pin block to "stick" could be very dangerous here, and could also cause malfunctions in the future.
I've been using "normal" methods of cleaning firearms for decades. I've never had issues due to using more old-school methods, and while I'm not making any excuses here for Walther, I don't see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm. They don't need to be spotless. At least leave the plastic parts out next time.
Are you sure about the dilution of Simple Green and water, and the temperature of this liquid. I noticed that the finish was also taken off of the steel recoil spring and locking block in the picture.
While I don't personally see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm, much less a new firearm, if this can occur while using common cleaning supplies, it should be known (which it now is), and it should be advised against.
How many other pistols have you subjected to this process? I've been wondering what type of finish/treatment they have been applying to the F-Series pistols made here in the US. Unfortunately, at least the outer finish looks like a step down in quality, as I recall members here using ultrasonic cleaners in the past for Walther pistols made in Ulm with no negative results. I remember a thread in the past where I mentioned that I would have preferred that manufacturing stay in Ulm rather than here in the US. This may be an example of why.
I don't see too much of a bend on that guide rod, but if there is one there, maybe someone can explain to me how an ultrasonic cleaner, the chemicals inside of it, or 140F of heat could make this happen. It looks like a similar recoil spring assembly to the one in my P99c, and I'm pretty sure I've gotten it around temperatures way hotter than 140F. The outer finish on these pistols doesn't do much as far as corrosion resistance (assuming that F-Series slides and barrels are nitrocarburized like the pistols made in Ulm), so I would probably just take the rest of the finish off and leave it.
I would definitely get this pistol to a gunsmith for inspection before even loading it, much less firing it. I'd ask the gunsmith to pay close attention to the channels on the inside of the slide. A loose piece of finish sticking out of the striker channel/breechface, or a loose piece of finish causing the firing pin block to "stick" could be very dangerous here, and could also cause malfunctions in the future.
I've been using "normal" methods of cleaning firearms for decades. I've never had issues due to using more old-school methods, and while I'm not making any excuses here for Walther, I don't see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm. They don't need to be spotless. At least leave the plastic parts out next time.
Are you sure about the dilution of Simple Green and water, and the temperature of this liquid. I noticed that the finish was also taken off of the steel recoil spring and locking block in the picture.
I did put the recoil rod/spring in the cleaner.Did you put the guide rod in the ultrasonic cleaner?
Curiosity had me searching YouTube just now, and I saw this video pop up. Did you use the "correct" Simple Green and the "correct" water?
If the whole gun was put into the ultrasonic bath you’ll want to detail strip and wipe all metal with your CLP. I’m assuming that’s the case because of the locking block corrosion. Hopefully the damage is cosmetic only. Even though the guide rod and recoil spring are probably safe, I’d replace them.
I don‘t have an ultrasonic cleaner or use simple green but did a quick search over on the tubes. This guy suggests a special formulation of simple green, distilled water, compressed air to dry, re-lube. Not sure of your process or if it would have made any difference but worth a watch for future reference.
Simple Green Ultrasonic Cleaning (firearms): Life Saver!
I don‘t have an ultrasonic cleaner or use simple green but did a quick search over on the tubes. This guy suggests a special formulation of simple green, distilled water, compressed air to dry, re-lube. Not sure of your process or if it would have made any difference but worth a watch for future reference.
Simple Green Ultrasonic Cleaning (firearms): Life Saver!
I used this cleaner/solution approach on my Canik and some of my AR parts. Unfortunately only the Canik is coated and all other parts are just nitride finish (no coating). They all had no cosmetic issues afterward. So far I agree with your view, there seems no obvious benefit of using ultrasonic cleaning then cleaning by hands and old fashion oil. The dilution percentage, temperature, and timer settings are obtained from the forum/web. The cleaner I have is from Amazon (Vevor brand) that no particular instructions for firearm cleaning.I don't use ultrasonic cleaners, and I've never used Simple Green on a firearm. Does the manual specify against the use of whatever chemicals are in Simple Green?
While I don't personally see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm, much less a new firearm, if this can occur while using common cleaning supplies, it should be known (which it now is), and it should be advised against.
How many other pistols have you subjected to this process? I've been wondering what type of finish/treatment they have been applying to the F-Series pistols made here in the US. Unfortunately, at least the outer finish looks like a step down in quality, as I recall members here using ultrasonic cleaners in the past for Walther pistols made in Ulm with no negative results. I remember a thread in the past where I mentioned that I would have preferred that manufacturing stay in Ulm rather than here in the US. This may be an example of why.
I don't see too much of a bend on that guide rod, but if there is one there, maybe someone can explain to me how an ultrasonic cleaner, the chemicals inside of it, or 140F of heat could make this happen. It looks like a similar recoil spring assembly to the one in my P99c, and I'm pretty sure I've gotten it around temperatures way hotter than 140F. The outer finish on these pistols doesn't do much as far as corrosion resistance (assuming that F-Series slides and barrels are nitrocarburized like the pistols made in Ulm), so I would probably just take the rest of the finish off and leave it.
I would definitely get this pistol to a gunsmith for inspection before even loading it, much less firing it. I'd ask the gunsmith to pay close attention to the channels on the inside of the slide. A loose piece of finish sticking out of the striker channel/breechface, or a loose piece of finish causing the firing pin block to "stick" could be very dangerous here, and could also cause malfunctions in the future.
I've been using "normal" methods of cleaning firearms for decades. I've never had issues due to using more old-school methods, and while I'm not making any excuses here for Walther, I don't see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm. They don't need to be spotless. At least leave the plastic parts out next time.
Are you sure about the dilution of Simple Green and water, and the temperature of this liquid. I noticed that the finish was also taken off of the steel recoil spring and locking block in the picture.
I personally would not run with the coating is not as good on the F-Series just yet.Are you sure about the dilution of Simple Green and water, and the temperature of this liquid. I noticed that the finish was also taken off of the steel recoil spring and locking block in the picture.
That may turn out that case but this could just as easily be a case of a well-intentioned but overzealous or not quite perfectly performed cleaning gone bad.
Ultrasonic cleaning can damaged guns or parts if performed for too long or incorrectly.
As you point out, there appears to be at least superficial damage to parts of the gun other than the slide.
If the damage was limited to the slide, I'd be more inclined to agree.
My knowledge here is admittedly dated but conventional wisdom was to not clean aluminum or plastic in an Ultrasonic. Perhaps that's changed.
I thought the state of play for the F-Series is the barrels and frames were being made in the USA but the slides were still being manufactured in Germany?
I have no idea if the slides are coated before being sent over or are delivered in the white and coated here. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this?
I have to agree 100% with everything balance said above. On the Simple Green warning label it states to test it on a hidden spot to make sure there is no reaction. If this was me I would chock it up as an expensive learning lesson and have a good gunsmith look it over. If it checked out ok I would send the slide / barrel out for PVD coating and replace the small parts that were affected with either upgraded ones or new oem ones.I don't use ultrasonic cleaners, and I've never used Simple Green on a firearm. Does the manual specify against the use of whatever chemicals are in Simple Green?
While I don't personally see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm, much less a new firearm, if this can occur while using common cleaning supplies, it should be known (which it now is), and it should be advised against.
How many other pistols have you subjected to this process? I've been wondering what type of finish/treatment they have been applying to the F-Series pistols made here in the US. Unfortunately, at least the outer finish looks like a step down in quality, as I recall members here using ultrasonic cleaners in the past for Walther pistols made in Ulm with no negative results. I remember a thread in the past where I mentioned that I would have preferred that manufacturing stay in Ulm rather than here in the US. This may be an example of why.
I don't see too much of a bend on that guide rod, but if there is one there, maybe someone can explain to me how an ultrasonic cleaner, the chemicals inside of it, or 140F of heat could make this happen. It looks like a similar recoil spring assembly to the one in my P99c, and I'm pretty sure I've gotten it around temperatures way hotter than 140F. The outer finish on these pistols doesn't do much as far as corrosion resistance (assuming that F-Series slides and barrels are nitrocarburized like the pistols made in Ulm), so I would probably just take the rest of the finish off and leave it.
I would definitely get this pistol to a gunsmith for inspection before even loading it, much less firing it. I'd ask the gunsmith to pay close attention to the channels on the inside of the slide. A loose piece of finish sticking out of the striker channel/breechface, or a loose piece of finish causing the firing pin block to "stick" could be very dangerous here, and could also cause malfunctions in the future.
I've been using "normal" methods of cleaning firearms for decades. I've never had issues due to using more old-school methods, and while I'm not making any excuses here for Walther, I don't see the need to use an ultrasonic cleaner on a firearm. They don't need to be spotless. At least leave the plastic parts out next time.
Are you sure about the dilution of Simple Green and water, and the temperature of this liquid. I noticed that the finish was also taken off of the steel recoil spring and locking block in the picture.
I did use the compressed air immediately dry them thoroughly when I took the guns out of the zip-lock bags. However, I only had "field stripped" the pistol (slide, rod, barrel, and frame) and put them all in one zip-lock bag when cleaning. The "corrosion (are they corrosions?)" is another concern I had when I was taking pictures, but they seemed "gone" after I oiled them(??).If the whole gun was put into the ultrasonic bath you’ll want to detail strip and wipe all metal with your CLP. I’m assuming that’s the case because of the locking block corrosion. Hopefully the damage is cosmetic only. Even though the guide rod and recoil spring are probably safe, I’d replace them.
I don‘t have an ultrasonic cleaner or use simple green but did a quick search over on the tubes. This guy suggests a special formulation of simple green, distilled water, compressed air to dry, re-lube. Not sure of your process or if it would have made any difference but worth a watch for future reference.
Simple Green Ultrasonic Cleaning (firearms): Life Saver!
I'll admit that I'm ignorant to most things regarding the topic of cleaning firearms in ultrasonic cleaners.I personally would not run with the coating is not as good on the F-Series just yet.
That may turn out that case but this could just as easily be a case of a well-intentioned but overzealous or not quite perfectly performed cleaning gone bad.
I had heard on this forum in the past of people cleaning firearms in ultrasonic cleaners with Simple Green and thought that was that, but it wasn't until about a half an hour ago that I learned that you should use a certain type of Simple Green, with a certain type of water as well.
I've now learned enough to know that I don't believe that I'll ever be using an ultrasonic cleaner if the result of doing it wrong is pictured on the first post on this thread. The price of an ultrasonic cleaner can purchase a whole lot of cans of non-chlorinated brake cleaner, which I KNOW works well enough for the hard to reach areas.
1 - 20 of 75 Posts
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