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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Just stopped in and looked at that collection again.

The only one that's been sold is the top left one in the 1st post image.
 

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That's because they're at a national sporting goods chain called Cabela's. You can still find these elsewhere for $2-3k.
Sportman's Warehouse is even worse about their used guns. Most of their used pistols look like crime guns that were thrown out a car window during a police chase (repeatedly).... and yet they have the balls to ask for nearly full retail price with no room to haggle.
 

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Sportman's Warehouse is even worse about their used guns.... and yet they have the balls to ask for nearly full retail price with no room to haggle.
That's why I never shop for guns at the big box stores. I'm sure that means I'll occasionally miss something good but the prices just aren't worth it.
 

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Found a T-series HiPo in a big box; bird dogged it to a buddy. Sometimes they just get the estimate wrong.
Have a domestic P210, and am much taken with it. Great mechanical feel and trigger; shoots straight too.
If it ever shows up, will swap this one for the carry version.
Moon
 

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I don't understand what makes the Swiss P49/210 worth the asking prices. Yes, they're a military handgun of the highest quality but that same quality is available in a new P210 for much less. The Swiss haven't fought a war in over 300 years so their guns don't have the allure of military guns that have seen action. Swiss Lugers are of the highest quality but are not valued or collected like the German Lugers. Being 30 caliber may have a small bearing on that. I'm not trying to insult anyone who thinks they are worth the price but I just don't see it.
Wrong: The new P210's are junk. They have cast steel frames and cast internal parts. The fire control mechanism is no longer made tongue and groove which could be removed without tools. The new junk fire control system is held in by a 10 cent hardware screw which can back out and jam up the gun under recoil. The new magazines are junk as well. They are folded over stamped sheet metal spot welded together. The followers are flat cheap stamped sheet metal. The original magazines had a continuous welded spine and the followers were stainless steel with a strengthening groves in them to prevent bending out of shape.

Rule to live by: If its modern made, chances are its junk.
 

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Big fan of Jennifer Garner here. As such, I'm also a big fan of Capital One.. what's in your wallet? And continuing this winding thread of logic that invades my head from time to time, I use that Cap 1 card all the time. And finally, since it's a Cabella's Cap 1, I'm just accumulating points and biding my time... I'm spending the money anyway on groceries, gas, whatever. Maybe Cabela's sometimes prices their stuff a little too high from time to time but free is free... It's kind of a nice feeling deciding if I want a Hi-Power or another world-war era piece. The wife feels the same way about shoes... 馃枛
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I've made some good buys at Cabela's.

A NIB complete package P5 stickered under $1k in 2018.

A slightly worn complete package German SIG Sauer P220 (in nickel) stickered @ $600 in 2020.
Sold in 2021 for 5X what I paid. Hello NIB/NOS Bernardelli Practical VB! 馃槃

An appears NIB complete package P232 stickered @ $500. I'm not a fan of 380acp, but what a sweet piece.

Cabela's Ft Worth has the occasional deal in their used gun section.............just don't get there before me.馃ぃ
 

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Wrong: The new P210's are junk. They have cast steel frames and cast internal parts. The fire control mechanism is no longer made tongue and groove which could be removed without tools. The new junk fire control system is held in by a 10 cent hardware screw which can back out and jam up the gun under recoil. The new magazines are junk as well. They are folded over stamped sheet metal spot welded together. The followers are flat cheap stamped sheet metal. The original magazines had a continuous welded spine and the followers were stainless steel with a strengthening groves in them to prevent bending out of shape. Rule to live by: If its modern made, chances are its junk.
There's more than a little irony when a poster named bhp9 is critical of a cast frame. If/when my Sig P210 falls apart, I'll let you know. At the moment it runs as slick as silk on glass.

As for modern made being junk, what is the cutoff date for "modern"? Are guns made on CNC machinery, properly programed and of quality materials, "junk"? Having owned vehicles made in every decade from the 1930's to 2019, I can say with certainty that they don't make them like they used to. And I'm glad they don't. Today's cars and trucks are SO much better.
 

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I have a Sig 210-6 target model made about 1984. My 50m test target, probably done in a machine rest, has 4 shots in one ragged hole and 2 close by. No idea why 2 are off a bit.
I have yet to hold or fire a newer American made 210 but have read about a number of faults, perhaps some or all have been corrected by now., don鈥檛 know.
The Swiss made pistols are definitely collector grade but a lot of the shooting fun should theoretically be present in the newer ones if the trigger, slide action and barrel are anything like the original.
However, and so far, several of the American clones of fine German or in this case Swiss pistols do not seem to be made with the same expense, care, craftsmanship or quality of some materials. I have a German made TPH and probably many here have heard of the issues with the American ones.
I no longer own any PPK鈥檚 but remember reading about issues with the American made ones. I know there's more articles about some other brands but don鈥檛 recall off the top. Around a year ago I specifically searched for articles on the new Sigs and found a number of issues, owner complaints etc.
My pistol which looks n shoots pretty perfect with original box, test target and other little thingies is worth $3k to me and I agree, most of the guns in that ad seemed way overpriced. They have little in the way of modern defensive or safety features and so it鈥檚 the special target models that should command the biggest dollars because what else are you going to do with it, carry it around in an original Swiss flap holster!!!
The border guard ones sure do have a beautiful finish but so do many other fine weapons like my early first run, Colt Special Combat Govt Carry model which has a Colt Python like finish. As my son Matt advises me, Dad don鈥檛 ever sell the SIG 210, it is definitely the coolest gun you own! He didn鈥檛 say that lightly as I have many beauties including one of a small batch of privately imported German hard chromed HKP7 M8鈥檚 with a nice flat finish that doesn鈥檛 shine and make you a bulls eye!
 

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The Swiss P210s are.....well Swiss. I have two P210-6 models and a US made 210 standard. All are great pistols, but the attention to detail is obvious.
On another note. I was at Cabelas library in Acworth at opening yesterday morning to purchase a lnic Fausti DEA 28ga. for listed $2199. Had just been put on their website night before and had not shown up on Gunsinternational yet.
They make the occasional error if you frequent their website and store.
 

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The American SIG Sauer P210A has a few manufacturing shortcuts to eliminate machining steps and reduce cost. The modified Browning lock up has been criticized by some collectors are cheap. Ironically, those are the same people lauding the Swiss Sphinx AT2000S over the CZ75 - and the Sphinx has the same modified Browning system. I shot my P210-6 side by side with the P210A and a Sphinx AS2000 and found no difference in offhand accuracy but differences in built quality, with the Swiss versions clearly leading. For practical purposes and speed shooting the P210A has improved ergonomics that cannot be overlooked - but then I would carry neither a P210-6, nor a P210A.



 

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Waaaaaaaaay too expensive in my opinion. They are fantastic quality in every way but priced well beyond reason... again, IMO.

This is a better deal... and yes, I have one. The quality is top drawer with one of the best triggers on any pistol, bar none. Sig Sauer -210A9TGT P210 Target Single 9mm Luger 5 8 Walnut Grip Black Nitron Stainless Steel
Big difference between the P210A and the models pictured. I have them all.

The American models shoot great, but you can't compare value. Apples and oranges.
 

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Big difference between the P210A and the models pictured. I have them all. The American models shoot great, but you can't compare value. Apples and oranges.
Please explain what differences there are that make the old guns worth twice - or more - the price of the P210A. Fit and finish, trigger pull and accuracy of my P210A are all excellent.
 

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I can鈥檛 say having never compared the new pistol to the old but I will offer this. When the American ones first came out and a top American gun writer whose name I won鈥檛 say unless he speaks up, told me he was getting a pair to test. I offered him and sent my P210-6 suggesting an interesting story for him to test them all and compare. It never happened, apparently Sig backed out. I am just reading between the lines as it was all mysterious and it took me awhile to get my 210 back which didn鈥檛 help! Then the writer unfriended me apparently as some kind of damage control due to the many msgs sent asking for my gun back or something else!
I was happy to eventually receive my beautiful pistol cleaned and looking the same, swearing I would never do that again! I find it entirely reasonable that your gun is very nice but that the Swiss made pistols are finer with an even better trigger, better finish and nicer work, stronger parts, all around because it has happened many times before with various Euro weapons licensed for production over here in the good old USA. We are good at saving bucks and often sacrificing quality! Hopefully the other fellow will chime in because its a great question. I鈥檓 an old retired dealer, the value I might win or lose on my old 210 doesn鈥檛 matter as I will never sell it. Too much fun to shoot and my son thinks its my coolest pistol, even nicer than my custom P7! So why buy another, after all its not a self defense piece although, like my gorgeous Luger, it will certainly kill if pointed correctly!
 

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Please explain what differences there are that make the old guns worth twice - or more - the price of the P210A. Fit and finish, trigger pull and accuracy of my P210A are all excellent.
Explain what?

The old models have sold for huge money for a long time. Do you think an American version is going to reduce their prices? Some of the old models bring $15-$20,000 each.

That鈥檚 the market value. There鈥檚 nothing to explain. If you don鈥檛 like it, stick to the P210A.

In more current times, the German Super Targets bring $5000 or so. There鈥檚 definitely a difference between those and the P210A. Fit, finish, smoothness, etc. Plus the design is different. The Super Target is my personal favorite P210.

You can鈥檛 just look at the prices of the old models and say it鈥檚 overpriced because there鈥檚 now a cheap P210 on the market. It doesn鈥檛 work that way. Never has and never will. The old Swiss models and the newer German models will continue to rise in value.

鈥nd, yes, I love my P210A Target. I鈥檓 just telling you the facts of the P210 market.
 

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Explain what?

The old models have sold for huge money for a long time. Do you think an American version is going to reduce their prices? Some of the old models bring $15-$20,000 each.

That鈥檚 the market value. There鈥檚 nothing to explain. If you don鈥檛 like it, stick to the P210A.

In more current times, the German Super Targets bring $5000 or so. There鈥檚 definitely a difference between those and the P210A. Fit, finish, smoothness, etc. Plus the design is different. The Super Target is my personal favorite P210.

You can鈥檛 just look at the prices of the old models and say it鈥檚 overpriced because there鈥檚 now a cheap P210 on the market. It doesn鈥檛 work that way. Never has and never will. The old Swiss models and the newer German models will continue to rise in value.

鈥nd, yes, I love my P210A Target. I鈥檓 just telling you the facts of the P210 market.
YOU claimed that there is a "big difference" between the guns but when asked to explain the differences, you dodge the question. If you don't know the answer, just say so.
 

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I can鈥檛 say having never compared the new pistol to the old but I will offer this. When the American ones first came out and a top American gun writer whose name I won鈥檛 say unless he speaks up, told me he was getting a pair to test. I offered him and sent my P210-6 suggesting an interesting story for him to test them all and compare. It never happened, apparently Sig backed out. I am just reading between the lines as it was all mysterious and it took me awhile to get my 210 back which didn鈥檛 help! Then the writer unfriended me apparently as some kind of damage control due to the many msgs sent asking for my gun back or something else!
I was happy to eventually receive my beautiful pistol cleaned and looking the same, swearing I would never do that again! I find it entirely reasonable that your gun is very nice but that the Swiss made pistols are finer with an even better trigger, better finish and nicer work, stronger parts, all around because it has happened many times before with various Euro weapons licensed for production over here in the good old USA. We are good at saving bucks and often sacrificing quality! Hopefully the other fellow will chime in because its a great question. I鈥檓 an old retired dealer, the value I might win or lose on my old 210 doesn鈥檛 matter as I will never sell it. Too much fun to shoot and my son thinks its my coolest pistol, even nicer than my custom P7! So why buy another, after all its not a self defense piece although, like my gorgeous Luger, it will certainly kill if pointed correctly!
Hard to determine why the comparison testing didn't happen. Lots of possible reasons I suppose. I'm glad your P210 was returned and I'd be reluctant to loan anything to someone who wasn't more responsive.

I don't doubt that your old P210 is a fine, well made pistol. OTOH, I'm unaware of any problems with the new P210A. There is a law of diminishing returns where small improvement past a certain point cost far more than the added benefits are worth. I don't see that there is enough difference between the older and newer pistols to warrant the increase in price. If someone does believe the differences justify the cost and has the money then I'm happy for them. My new P210A is as smooth as silk on glass, has a trigger well under 3 pounds - feels much lighter - and is accurate. The finish is durable and resists rusting. Finally, my all matching P'00/06 German made Luger, sent to Switzerland as a parts kit and assembled in 1910 by W+F in Bern is also gorgeous.

Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Everyday carry
 

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Hard to determine why the comparison testing didn't happen. Lots of possible reasons I suppose. I'm glad your P210 was returned and I'd be reluctant to loan anything to someone who wasn't more responsive.

I don't doubt that your old P210 is a fine, well made pistol. OTOH, I'm unaware of any problems with the new P210A. There is a law of diminishing returns where small improvement past a certain point cost far more than the added benefits are worth. I don't see that there is enough difference between the older and newer pistols to warrant the increase in price. If someone does believe the differences justify the cost and has the money then I'm happy for them. My new P210A is as smooth as silk on glass, has a trigger well under 3 pounds - feels much lighter - and is accurate. The finish is durable and resists rusting. Finally, my all matching P'00/06 German made Luger, sent to Switzerland as a parts kit and assembled in 1910 by W+F in Bern is also gorgeous.

View attachment 103339
Thats a nice old Luger! I should have bought some years ago, but didn鈥檛 have the time to bring myself up to speed with yet another complicated maze of models, all with different values and many of which had been through the mill, ie two world wars! So, I decided I wanted a brand new one and what could be better than those being made again by Mauser, supposedly on original equipment to original drawings saved from the war, at the same Oberndorf address too! I like the Swiss pattern which right away showed I was not a purist. Just seemed that an extra safety for the old gun was extra insurance. I have one from off the top of my head is mid production, so about 35 years old and was asnib until I decided to put a box of ammo through it around 5 years ago! It ate whatever I fed it, reloads, fmj, some small hollow point. The magazine spring is extremely stiff which gives it reliable feeding. Its my favorite close examination pistol! It鈥檚 no Kreighoff but its a very beautifully made Mauser Swiss pattern with a 4" or 5" barrel, box, papers, 2 mags, loading tool, cleaning rod, test target and manual! Apparently worth almost $3k now and that鈥檚 nice!
I love it like the old fashioned typewriter or sewing machine it is in addition for what it represents as a functioning historical pistol! Guess I don鈥檛 have a picture handy so here鈥檚 a pic of my Colt/Browning M1908. .380! This one's as old as my WW2 fighter pilot pal Bud Anderson was last January, 100 years and still functional as a concealed weapon! One of the first pocket pistols, all curved smoothed surface's, internal hammer, for old fashioned 鈥淏ig Pockets鈥 and a little bit heavier than my TPH or a PPK/PP but easy recoil with a .380 due to its weight. I can bounce a tin can until the mag empties with it! With the single action cocked/locked, manual and grip safeties, it can be carried and is a very slim, very accurate, blow back weapon. The .32 is really really sweet! Like shooting a precision BB pistol! These pictures don鈥檛 do it justice, it looks even better in your hand and feels just as nice too! They are why I gave up my PPK鈥檚!
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Everyday carry Wood

Trigger Everyday carry Wood Gun barrel Air gun
 
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