[Deputy]

I was checking fit of my Fobus holster this morning when I saw some funky-looking crud on the plastic grips of my pistol. Closer inspection revealed a jagged crack on the right grip from the mounting screw to the top of the grip. On the left side there was a smaller crack from below the screw to the bottom of the grip. A third crack formed an inverted "Y" with the second crack and wrapped around to the back of the grip and down to the base of the grip. I took the grips off and it appears that the plastic may have been weakend from the oil/solvent I use to clean the gun. I use Hoppe's #9 to clean with and Tetra gun grease and gun lube to lubricate with. There was a lot of black on the little bit of fluid I found under the grips which may have been the plastic being eaten away. This is the first time I have had something like this on ANY gun. I've been using Hoppe's #9 since back in the late 60s to clean both plastic and metal with no ill effect. If you own a S&W PPK you might want to take a close look at your grips around the screw area.
I dunno if Smith is using some cheap plastic in the grips that reacts with Hoppe's or what. I sure never had this problem with S&W plastic grips on their own guns. For me...I'm going to start searching for WOOD grips for my PPK. Anyone who knows where I can get a nice set of wood grips for the S&W PPK please feel free to post here.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

I e-mailed Eagle grips to see if their grips would fit the S&W. I still can't believe this happened.

 

[Deputy]

Here are some solvent products out of the test which I think are available in the US. 'yes' means it contains ammonia.

Robla Solo Mil - yes
Hoppe?s No. 9 - no
Hoppe?s Benchrest - yes
Tetra Gun Copper Solvent - yes
Liqui Moli Guntec - yes

regards,
inspiron

Actually, Hoppe's #9 DOES contain ammonia. And I don't use Tetra Copper solvent. Never had a problem with Tetra before.

Here's a question I asked Hoppe's about ammonia a while ago back on the CMP forum concerning using Hoppe's to clean corrosive ammo. Their reply:


"Hoppes #9 is ammonia based, but it is PH balanced so that it will not harm the weapon. Unfortunately we are not allowed to know what exact ingredients are in the Hoppes, but there are specific ingredients that remove those salts. And of course you will not see a great removal like you will when you let the gun soak with the #9. I would suggest a boresnake dipped in the #9 while you are out shooting. That is a great field cleaning technique to quickly remove those corrosive salts."

 

[Deputy]

BTW...Walther uses Tetra products and endorses them:

http://www.tetraproducts.com/endorsements.asp

More and more I think this was a problem with the plastic in the grips and not a problem with Hoppe's #9 (which Walther also endorses) or Tetra.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

WOW!!!

I've used Hoppe's on my guns since forever, including my PPK. I am sure over the years the PPK grips got a Hoppe's wipe-down on ocassion, not to mention regular gun oil and break free, all with no ill-effects.

I would let S&W know about the problem for sure.

For replacements, Eagle is good. They can only supply rosewood, given the open backstrap of the PPK, rosewood may not be strong enough.

I would bet Hogue supplies the better made grips and in an assortment of woods. All of the replacements are going to be thicker than the original plastic. Other than these two makers, I don't think anyone else out there is making PPK grips except for Nill.

I would suggest an older set of the brown grips from the German pistols, but I think S&W made alot of dimensional changes with their version and doubt they would fit.

Murphy is an insidious Ba*t*rd!!!!

The question is does Eagle grips make them for the S&W PPK? The S&W grip is totally different from the other PPK grips. The S&W PPK does NOT have an open backstrap. It is a complete wraparound grip. I looked at the Nill website but could not find a S&W PPK grip there either.

 

[Deputy]

I checked the Hogue website and they have lots of PPK grips, but they were all shown on Interarms vintage pistols. The Hogue grips are two piece of the "wraparound" style of the PPK.

I think Hogue has the better product, and a variety of woods - like Goncalo Alves, which is pretty hard. I have had alot of Eagle Grips over the years and find the Rosewood they use very dark and oily.

I did not check the Eagle website, or Hogue in any detail - you may have to check directly with them to see if the S&W PPK will work with either outfits grips.

Yep...calling Eagle and S&W tomorrow about grips.

 

[Deputy]

Just got off the phone with Eagle Grips and S&W. I ordered the Eagle Smooth Ebony grips for $79.95. They DO have them for the S&W PPK. Unfortunately, they are on backorder and I won't receive them until next month. Not a big deal, though. At least I can get them.

Then I called S&W/Walther customer service and described what happened. They had no explaination concerning the cracks. But for the "eating away" the guy immediately said it was caused by the Hoppe's #9. I told him I'd been using that stuff all my life and never had this happen before. But he said it was definitely the Hoppe's. "The grips are made of polymer and Hoppe's will eat at them" were his exact words. I am thinking the grips are made out of cheap polymer, inferior to what was installed on the Interarms guns, and that's why the Hoppe's eats at them. I've had Hoppe's get on all kinds of plastic gun parts and never had this happen before. At any rate, S&W is sending me out a free set of grips for the PPK...which is cool.

But I will install the Eagle wood grips as soon as I get them.
So everyone who has S&W Walther pocket pistols beware...if you use Hoppe's or any other gun cleaner, better not get that stuff on the plastic grips.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

451: Agree with you completely. One SHOULDN'T have to remove the plastic grips to clean a pistol with Hoppe's. I think the "polymer" compound in the S&W PPK grips is screwed up and that is the problem. I know one of the main ingredients of Hoppe's is kerosene. But that is hardly caustic to plastic. My kerosene containers for my space heaters are blue plastic. Ammonia is probably caustic to plastic, but Hoppe's uses a PH balanced formula that (according to them) isn't caustic. And I know of some other gun cleaners that are a LOT more caustic than Hoppe's. I dunno...it just doesn't wash with me either to blame Hoppe's for this problem.
Oh yeah....two other things...
#1 I just bought a small container of Hoppe's #9 for my cleaning case. The container is made out of PLASTIC.
#2 Hoppe's now makes an ammonia-free gun cleaner. It's called Hoppe's Elite.

"After an in-depth study of weapon care technology, Hoppe's Elite, an ammonia-free, odorless, non-toxic, biodegradable and non-flammable line, was formulated. This technology outperformed traditional hazardous products, cutting cleaning time by 80 percent. The latest addition to the line, Copper Terminator, removes copper four times faster than ammonia-based products. This is good news for retailers, as they are realizing the benefits of stocking a green line, while at the same time giving consumers better products -— a positive sign for creating a sustainable industry."

http://www.golfbusinesswire.com/shooting_wire_release.html?releaseID=116500

 

[Deputy]

Inspiron: I did not "coat" the gun with Hoppe's #9. I used a small damp spot of it on a rag to clean off powder residue from the metal parts, and then I wiped it off and gave a light coat of Tetra gunoil over the metal parts. I MAY have got some on the plastic when I was cleaning the slide, but it would have been a very small amount. I suspect ALL gun solvents have some kind of aggesssive chemicals or they wouldn't be able to remove burnt power and lead and other fouling. I am an old geezer and have been using Hoppe's #9 on my firearms since I started shooting them...that would be 1967 when I joined the US Army. Do the math. 40 years with NO ill effects from Hoope's #9. Now I suddenly have grips decompose from it's use? I don't think it's Hoppe's. I think it is some cheap plastic formula in the S&W grips that is the culprit. Note also what I mentioned above...Hoppe's now sells their #9 cleaner in PLASTIC BOTTLES. That pretty much confirms to me that it's harmless to most plastic with the exception of the stuff the new PPK grips are made of.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

Well here's an update on my grip situation. I received my replacement grips from S&W in the mail today. Pretty fast service. Unfortunately, pretty incompetent service. When I opened the package up I found PPK/S grips This is the second time I have dealt with incompetence in ordering parts from S&W. I think they have a bunch of morons working the phone lines. I REPEATEDLY asked for wraparound S&W PPK grips because I knew they were different from the PPK/S grips. ACK!!!! From the looks of things I may get my Eagle grips BEFORE I get the correct S&W grips. Sure glad I ordered BOTH.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

Well his first name is Joe. He placed the order the first time and said "the grips are on the way". I said "What? You didn't get my address yet!!"
So he replaced the order a second time. And I ended up with nice new PPK/S grips

Maybe it was Joe the Bartender from the old Jackie Gleason Show
I UPSed the grips back to S&W tonight with a note saying what I needed.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

LOL...you guys are cracking me up!!!

On a different note...I contacted CLP Break-Free and asked them what the effect of their product was on plastic-polymer. I was never much of a fan of CLP but lots of people seem to like it.

 

[Deputy]

Dep: Check out this link. You might feel better about the use of CLP after reading this. Salute

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

I know CLP and Eezox are good lubricants and protectants, but I want to make sure about their effects on plastic. Looking closer at Eezox, that may be my choice over CLP. Thanks searcher!!!

 

[Deputy]

Hmmmmm...Naval Jelly!!! Yeah...that's the ticket!!!!

I guess I will go with Eezox. It seems Break Free contains teflon and there's some questions about teflon being ideal for guns. I have some of the new Hoppe's Elite gun cleaner that is supposed to be non-toxic. So I guess I can drink it too

 

[Deputy]

SD: I don't think you have to worry about Break Free. From all I've read it won't hurt plastic. But I can't help wonder what kind of cheapy formula S&W is using on the PPK plastic grips.

There's some other stuff I have called Strike-Hold. But I saw a video of it melt through the bottom of a styrofoam cup. So I don't think I'll be using it. Eezox or that new Hoppes Elite should be okay.

 

[Deputy]

searcher: Yep...I looked over that thread before. I am still torn between CLP and Eezox. Whatever I decide, I'll have to order the stuff online. Supposedly CLP gets everything but copper fouling.

 

[Deputy]

Update on the Walther grips. After being sent the WRONG grips by S&W (PPK/S grips instead of PPK) I sent them back for an exchange. Out of curiosity I called them up today and the guy I talked to seemed to know my situation. I asked if the correct grips had been sent. He said nope. So he redid the order and said I should get the PPK grips some time next week. Good thing it's not critical that I get these grips quickly.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

I hope you guys are wrong and this is an exception to the rule. The guy I talked to the first time might have been named Bubba. The guy I talked to today seemed to know his stuff. He punched up the computer and read out the correct number right away. Keeping my fingers crossed until this new order arrives

Dep
FUBAR, SNAFU and BOHICA all apply

 

[Deputy]

Well today I used CLP Break Free on my Model 629 barrel. Gonna see if it gets more crud out than what I already got with Hoppe's Elite. I also used it in the 617 barrel. I got lucky yesterday at Wallyworld and picked up another bottle of the Hoppes Elite cleaner and two bottles of Elite Gun Oil. I really like the cleaner. It removed powder burns on the 629 cylinder face that even Hoppe's #9 couldn't get off. I'll leave the CLP on overnight and clean it tomorrow.

As to using CLP Break Free to lube the slide instead of a tiny bit of grease....I'm not crazy about that. I know it's supposed to dry and leave Teflon in it's place. But that doesn't encourage me very much. Anyone still own a Teflon-coated frying pan? Ever use metal utensils to cook with? DON'T! It scratches the shit out of the Teflon. And if that happens when flipping pancakes with a metal flipper, I wonder how much protection you are getting with a metal-on-metal slide

Dep

 

[Deputy]

153: Well I read the instructions and supposedly if you put this stuff on and leave it over night, it gets out stuff that is on really good. What you used to do is exactly what I used to do. Hoppes #9 and a wire brush. And my brushes wear out fast too. I usually hit Wallyword and buy 3 at a time when I need them. The bad thing about Break Free is it doesn't work on copper fouling. Just lead and powder fouling. So you STILL have to use Hoppes or some other copper remover to get the barrel totally clean. If you find it you might want to try some Hoppes Elite gun cleaner. It really worked well to get off the crud. Wallyworld has it for about $5. Comes in a little spray pump. Doesn't take much to get the job done. I stocked up on that stuff after seeing how well it worked. I'm still thinking about trying two other products. A gel cleaner called Blue Wonder gun cleaner. It's a gel that you ook on the bore brush and then clean the barrel with:
http://www.novumsolutions.com/BlueWonderGunCleaner.html

The other product is Eezox. Heard lots of good things about it. But it's another one of those "CLP" things and I have YET to find a CLP product that actually does all 3 well.

One product I did try and that turned out to be pure crap is some stuff called Strike-Hold. That stuff is like water and didn't clean worth a damn. Expensive too. All it is is lots of fancy advertising on their website. What a ripoff!
The testing done with it showed that it wasn't worth squat at preventing rust.
http://www.strike-hold.com/index.htm

Dep