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Is there anything in the rumor mill about S&W will expanding their current line to include a PP in .380 or even 9mm Luger? How about a PPK in 9 mm Luger? I would think the PPK in 9mm Luger would be a big seller in the American market place.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (BennyMA @ Sep. 03 2006,3:20)]Is there anything in the rumor mill about S&W will expanding their current line to include a PP in .380 or even 9mm Luger? How about a PPK in 9 mm Luger? I would think the PPK in 9mm Luger would be a big seller in the American market place.
Not very likely.
Walther experimented with the Parabellum cartridge using a straight blow back system in the early 1930s. The pressures of the 9mm are to high and the recoil spring needed is so heavy that you can't rack the slide!! Also, there are gross timing problems!! In short, it won't work. This prompted Walther to find the maximum cartridge that could be used in a blow back gun. The result was the ill fated 9mm Ultra cartridge project and the PP Super.
Interestingly enough, the Soviets took the data they "inherited" when they took over the Walther plant to develop the, now famous, 9mm Makarov round!!

This is probably the most powerful cartridge that will support a blowback system.

As for the PP, S&W had the PP in the product line up as late as a year or so ago. They dropped the pistol from the line up, probably due to lack of sales!!

I fear the PP has gone from retirement to the grave!!
 

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FWIW
Walther Germany is makine a current model PPK/E
that has a regular german tang... and some improvements... I don't know if this will ever be imported to US or not... but I would think it will maybe due to S&W exporting the PPK/S and PPK to Germany for sale by Walther

Now isn't the H&K P7 a blowback...

And I need to dissagree that the 9x18 was ill fated... afterall there is other companies that used 9x18 besides Walther
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Now isn't the H&K P7 a blowback...
The HK is a delayed blowback system. It used a funky gas piston much like the Garrand. It's more accurate to say that it's a gas operated pistol!!
 

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Interesting...

I have complete faith in what denfoote said about Walther and the PP development.  I do note with some experience the recoil and hammer springs which came in my PPK/S-1 would make Carl Walther spin in his grave and my impression is that the bureaucrat springs would easily digest 9x19 (Luger) cartridges without a problem.  Should it?  Absolutely not.  Will it?  I think so.  Both the springs in my S-1 are rated at 20 pounds.  The DA trigger pull of my S-1 was 22#.  I suspect the recoil spring was pretty close to 22 as well.

I liken it very much to my 9mm Barretta Model 92 Compact.  I agree this weapon shouldn't be able to digest the 9mm luger but no one would ever fit it with 20+ pound springs. Indeed most people could not operate this pistol properly.

Remington ballistics tables (Federal and Winchester are similar) for the standard 115 grain JHP load show a muzzle velocity (MV) of 1155 fps and a muzzle energy (ME) of 341 ft. lbs. The trajectory of this load shows a midrange rise of .9" over 50 yards, and 3.9" over 100 yards. The 9x19 is one of the best auto pistol cartridges for long range shooting.  This combined with the PP/PPK fixed barrel may yield a tack driver.

The .380 ACP Hornady 90gr XTP JHP will deliver a terminal velocity of 1025 fps +/_  with about 190 ft pounds of energy.  I routinely run this round through my PPK/S with 12 pound springs like the ones found on non bureaucrat PP's from the 1930's-1940's and the PPK/S's from the 1960's-1970's.  I guess back then the assumption was if you had a weapon pointed at something and you pulled the trigger you WANTED the weapon to fire.  Has anyone heard of this before?


I think the timing issues as well as some of the recoil issues could be delt with by porting the barrel and the slide.  Want to find out?  Find a competent gunsmith to do the work and we'll use my S-1 as a test mule.
 

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A fixed barrel, thin frame, 9mm gas operated pistol - mmmm - sounds like a P7M8, but what do I know!
 
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