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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK Guys....running around the Internet last nite checking on Walther PPK/S made in Germany..........I cant find the Original thread :mad:..must have looked at dozens......anyway...an "EXPERT" chimned in on one of the threads and said Walther in ULM did NOT make Any Walther PPK/S after 1945.....All of the P
PK Pistols were made in France by Manhurin....then shipped to ULM to be Proof tested and marked ...MADE IN W.GERMANY............if thats true....shoots down me wanting a PPK/S stamped MADE IN W. GERMANY ...........SO..lets hear what you guys have to say......and I hope that "Rumor" is B.S. and I can continue my search for a W.GERMAN made PPK/S...............Jump in and make me feel better.........Hans Fischer...in Sunny Tennessee:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
RUMOR ISSUE FOUND ON GUNBOARDS

Hey Guys...Found the "Rumor regarding Manurhin making pistols for Walther....Read and let me know your opinion....is it possible for me to actually find a Walther PPK/S that WAS made in W.Germany.????.following is Gunboard post.....

Following WWII Walther (the man) moved from what would become East Germany to what would become West Germany and found work as an auto mechanic. Being unable to re-start Walther (the arms factory) in West Germany due to restrictions imposed by the occupying forces, Walther entered into an agreement with Manurhin whereby Manurhin would produce, under license, Walther model PP and PPK pistols, (and after the US GCA 68 was passed, the Walther PPK/S pistol). All post WWII Walther model PP, PPK, and PPK/S pistols produced up until about 1986 were produced in France, by Manurhin. All such pistols marked as "Made in West Germany" were actually made in France by Manurhin, trucked to Walther in Ulm, marked as being made in West Germany and proofed at the Ulm proof House. The post WWII Walther never had the tooling or capacity to produce PP, PPK, or PPK/S pistols. It was this license agreement with Manurhin that provided the money used by Walther, in the late 1950s, to restart Walther as an arms maker and begin production of the Walther P.38 (and the P.38s marked as P.1 pistols for the German army and foreign military sales). Post WWII Walther P.38/P.1 pistols are the converse of post WWII PP, PPK, and PPK/S pistols, in that all such pistols marked Manurhin and "Made in France" were actually made in West German and trucked over the border into France, where Manurhin marked them as Manurhin, made in France, and had them proofed at the St. Etienne proof house. Manurhin never had the tooling or capacity to manufacture P.38/P.1 pistols.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
West German Made or NOT.?

Hey Guys...Thank you for your response...The Walther PPK I have is .380...and under the Walther scroll is MADE IN USA.......I was told these were made by RANGER in Alabama.........whats your opinion regarding Reliability on ones made there.??..The previous owner experienced some double feed problems on Police Firing range....said had to almost dismantle the pistol to get it to fire again.....guess thats why I got such a good deal on it......he had been carrying it undercover while doing Drug Dealer Investigations and Arrests......said it worried him...........so...what do I do now.?.....my first thought its the magazine fault.....ramp need polishing.?....what.?...../////my final thought is IF I want a REAL West German made PPK....will have to go with Wartime 7.65 issue......Life is not simple somedays.. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
punctuation--unable to read,?

Thank you for your unusual reply.......I have been writing this way for many years......and until today.....no one has had a problem reading my notes........I have no intention getting into a flame war over my punctuation.....Regards.......Hans Fischer
 

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Hey Guys...Thank you for your response...The Walther PPK I have is .380...and under the Walther scroll is MADE IN USA.......I was told these were made by RANGER in Alabama.........whats your opinion regarding Reliability on ones made there.??..The previous owner experienced some double feed problems on Police Firing range....said had to almost dismantle the pistol to get it to fire again.....guess thats why I got such a good deal on it......he had been carrying it undercover while doing Drug Dealer Investigations and Arrests......said it worried him...........so...what do I do now.?.....my first thought its the magazine fault.....ramp need polishing.?....what.?...../////my final thought is IF I want a REAL West German made PPK....will have to go with Wartime 7.65 issue......Life is not simple somedays.. :(
Why do you want only a PP/PPK, which was built with all of its parts only in Germany? Why do you believe, PPs/PPKs with parts built in France and assembled in Germany/Ulm are worse?
Although PPs/PPKs became und become more and more outdated in Germany since some years, they all still have an excellent reputation as very solide, reliable and durable pistols. At least in Germany that's the reason, why no one in Germany cared and cares, that the parts were made in France until 1986.
Sorry to say that, but the reputation in Germany of PPK/S made in the USA is worse than the repuation of PPs/PPKs made with French parts and assembled in Germany/Ulm.
Just my two cents from Germany.
 

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............my final thought is IF I want a REAL West German made PPK....will have to go with Wartime 7.65 issue......Life is not simple somedays.. :(
There was no “West Germany” during the Second World War.

Not sure about the PPK/S, but you can still get genuine “Made in Germany” Walther PP's (the slightly longer version of the PPK):

https://www.umarex.com/products/blank-firing-guns/pistols/315.02.00.html

I'm sure it would help you live out your James Bond fantasies, the only problem is that it doesn't fire 7.65mm ammunition - in fact it doesn't shoot any projectiles whatsoever.

I think you'd be very happy with it.

Balor
 

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Hans: Regarding your Ranger reliability question. It depends . . . here are too many factors affecting reliability to favor or disfavor one Walther "make" over other another. My assertion is that all Walther pistol "makes" are generally very reliable with proper ammunition, shooting technique and pistol & magazine maintenance. However, perhaps the biggest factor after shooting technique and affecting Ranger reliability, is one's ammunition selection. Start with 95 grain FMJ with a muzzle velocity of 955 fps. The 380 Ranger was optimized for that load so shoot a couple boxes of that to establish a reliability baseline. If your pistol doesn't reliably cycle this round, check your technique and clean and lube your pistol and clean your magazines before changing anything else. Once you get your pistol to reliably cycle this load, you can then start experimenting with other loads/projectile types.

PS: I have two Ranger PPK pistols, one made in 1986 and another made in 1996. I don't have many of rounds through the 1986 pistol, but both have been flawless. By the way, the least ammunition sensitive 380 PPK I ever owned was a Smith & Wession PPK. "German" 380 PPK pistols that I've owned preferred a diet of FMJ given their feed ramp design. However, my current Ulm/IA 380 PPK eats Hornady XTP like they were a favorite candy.
 

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I've got a few Rangers and one late WWII model. The old one shoots flawlessly but it's enjoying its retirement years in the safe. The Rangers, mfg mid-70s and both .380s, shoot very well. Rare if ever do they misfeed. I've got a 7.65 made in the US that shoots reliably well too and the trigger on that one is a much easier pull than the imports.

As far as the Manhurin part of your post, as mentioned once WWII was over Germany wasn't allowed to manufacture weapons so they moved the factory to France.
 

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I've used Walther, Manurhin and Ranger weapons and shot a few S&Ws. The only ones I've had issues with were the Smith and Wessons. I think it may have been that extended beaver tail that threw off my grip...

Folks who start messing with feed ramps are asking for trouble. Clean the mags (inside and out paying careful attention to mag spring orientation). Clean the slide and make sure the recoil spring is properly oriented. After that pay close attention to proper grip.

A final thought is to look at the grips. If you are running aftermarket grips they could also cause issues. Even over tightened OEM grips have been known to cause issues
 

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All post WWII Walther model PP, PPK, and PPK/S pistols produced up until about 1986 were produced in France, by Manurhin.
That's correct. And all those guns are of a better quality than the following PP series models manufactured entirely in Ulm/Germany between 1986 and 1999. So there is really nothing wrong with these Franco-German made guns. Au contraire!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
West Germany.?

There was no “West Germany” during the Second World War.

Not sure about the PPK/S, but you can still get genuine “Made in Germany” Walther PP's (the slightly longer version of the PPK):

https://www.umarex.com/products/blank-firing-guns/pistols/315.02.00.html

I'm sure it would help you live out your James Bond fantasies, the only problem is that it doesn't fire 7.65mm ammunition - in fact it doesn't shoot any projectiles whatsoever.

I think you'd be very happy with it.

Balor
Thank you for your note.....first off.....I am well aware of WEST GERMANY as I spent two years at Ramstein Air Base.1961-1963.(didnt mean to write West Germany in that sentence)...2nd...I am 78 years old and have no "James Bond Fantasies "and Im aware what Umarex is and I dont appreciate your sarcasm...why dont you get one and have your fantasy...today is Veterans Day...I gave 27 years to the Military...both Army and Air Force...last 6 years as Military Police..Thankyou for your information regarding the Walther PP...I will look for one..If you are a VET as well....hope you have a good day
 

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my final thought is IF I want a REAL West German made PPK....will have to go with Wartime 7.65 issue.
All the PPK models manufactured pre-war and during WWII were made in Zella-Mehlis. But Zella-Mehlis was never in West Germany at any time. After the war, this city was in East Germany of course.

So the only "real" West German PPK models are those from the time frame 1986 to 1999.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Magazines..??

I've used Walther, Manurhin and Ranger weapons and shot a few S&Ws. The only ones I've had issues with were the Smith and Wessons. I think it may have been that extended beaver tail thrown off my grip...

Folks who start messing with feed ramps are asking for trouble. Clean the mags (inside and out paying careful attention to mag spring orientation). Clean the slide and make sure the recoil spring is properly oriented. After that pay close attention to proper grip.

A final thought is to look at the grips. If you are running aftermarket grips they could also cause issues. Even over tightened OEM grips have been known to cause issues
Thanks for. your note .its Appreciated..Ive found a lot of times the magazines are the problem..couple months ago..I picked up Nice Colt .22 3rd Model. and it would NOT Lock open after last round...took it to gunsmith..changed out all springs..looked it over..etc...got it back ..same problem..so I have 3 magazines..wrote 1-2-3 on them...#1 was perfect..locked open after last shot..#2..locked open about 50 percent of time..#3.would not lock open...so all that extra work and turned out it was the magazine...Thanks again...if you are also a VETERAN..hope you have a Good day...I gave the Military 27 years..
 

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My other assertion is that judging the looks of a particular "make" of Walther PPK & PPKS pistol often gets in the way of objectively assessing its actual performance. However, this trap is not surprising given "looks" are likely the number one appeal of acquiring one of the PP series.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey Guys...Thank you for your response...The Walther PPK I have is .380...and under the Walther scroll is MADE IN USA.......I was told these were made by RANGER in Alabama.........whats your opinion regarding Reliability on ones made there.??..The previous owner experienced some double feed problems on Police Firing range....said had to almost dismantle the pistol to get it to fire again.....guess thats why I got such a good deal on it......he had been carrying it undercover while doing Drug Dealer Investigations and Arrests......said it worried him...........so...what do I do now.?.....my first thought its the magazine fault.....ramp need polishing.?....what.?...../////my final thought is IF I want a REAL German made PPK....will have to go with Wartime 7.65 issue......Life is not simple somedays.. :(
.....My Mistake in typing...should have typed .."If I want a Real German Made Walther will start looking at the War Time issue...saw a number of them at our last Military Show...where I had set up a Dealer Table....this gives me something to really scout out in the upcoming show...Thanks for the Advice...today is Veterans Day....I gave the Military 27 years..if you are also a Vet. hope you have a Good Day.....Thanks..
 

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A "Made in West Germany" PPK, PPK/S, PP _IS_ a "real German Walther". Even if the raw parts were made in France, finish, assembly, fitting, proofing was still done by Germans in Germany.
 

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Thank you for your note.....first off.....I am well aware of WEST GERMANY as I spent two years at Ramstein Air Base.1961-1963.(didnt mean to write West Germany in that sentence)...2nd...I am 78 years old and have no "James Bond Fantasies "and Im aware what Umarex is and I dont appreciate your sarcasm...why dont you get one and have your fantasy...today is Veterans Day...I gave 27 years to the Military...both Army and Air Force...last 6 years as Military Police..Thankyou for your information regarding the Walther PP...I will look for one..If you are a VET as well....hope you have a good day
OK. My apologies. I was, as they say, “taking the piss”.

Manurhin-produced firearms are, as you might already know, held in very high regard - they did, after all, manufacture the iconic MR 73 revolver which you would nowadays be lucky to find at less than $2,000 used (in Europe). The post-war “workaround” of having Walther pistols manufactured in France was a reaction to the “victors” refusing the Germans permission to produce firearms. The Germans, for their part, adapted to this restriction by producing the world's best match-grade air rifles and pistols, then later small-calibre rifles and pistols and have held that position (with some stiff competition from their southern neighbours) till the present day.

Balor
 
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