Walther Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Put 8 rounds in the mag. Rack the slide and put one in the chamber.
Remove the mag and add 1 round. Insert into the gun.
There's your 9 rounds. Works perfectly for me!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scouts10

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Put 8 rounds in the mag. Rack the slide and put one in the chamber.
Remove the mag and add 1 round. Insert into the gun.
There's your 9 rounds. Works perfectly for me!!
LOL. But the Magguts turns your scenario into ten rounds!

If only it worked ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
It seems that by comparing the follower in the 6 round mag to the others you might be able to determine the difference. The 8 round follower is either tilting down and binding or is being forced further down the length of the mag and is catching on something. I suppose the spring is installed properly. The video shows the problem clearly. Are the legs on all of the followers the same length, shape, width, spread? Is there a change in the design of the inner box of the mag as 7 and 8 rounds press the follower further down?

So in the 6 round system you cannot make the rounds or follower go nose down but it regularly occurs in the extended mags. Should be some reason upon careful examination. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

On another note, wturri, if you are not a radio-show host or voice-over guy, you should be! :D

A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
I had the same failure as well. The follower would get stuck and the rounds would just move freely in the mag. I returned the spring kit. Definitely a design flaw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

On another note, wturri, if you are not a radio-show host or voice-over guy, you should be! <img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
Good points!

So is it a flaw of the magazine or the Magguts product designed to work with the factory magazine as is?

I'd say the latter.

I'm launching my radio show soon 😛
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Good points!

So is it a flaw of the magazine or the Magguts product designed to work with the factory magazine as is?

I'd say the latter.

I'm launching my radio show soon 😛
I'd say the magazine, for a couple reasons:

First, it is a cheaper way to manufacture the magazine, making one mag body and three floorplates to adjust capacity.

Second, it is potentially less reliable in the factory set up. If the metal body extended lower to the bottom of the floorplate, the factory spring and follower would have less chance of catching, and also, banging the floorplate hard, in the original configuration, creates a higher chance of the baseplate separating, whereas with the longer body I feel they should have used, it would be nearly impossible...

Finally, with the design Walther went with, after-market companies are less-supported — You're situation is a prime example...

A lot of this is not Walther's worry, and what is their worry is pretty low-risk for them, so I get it. But it is sad to see the company which spared no expense to bring us amazing pistols like the P-5 and P-88 has fallen to being a more-refined version of Glock...

MagGuts may be a little at fault for not designing their follower to be tapered more along the edges, so nothing would catch, but it's hard to design for every variable, especially when they have no control over what Walther does...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
I read this thread when it first came out, and already had two kits on the way for my 7 round magazines. I have 4 7 round mags, two for EDC carry and two for range use. I installed the kits into the range magazines when they arrived. I intended to take them to the range and put them through their paces before deciding if I would make them part of my EDC. About that time the PPS recall happened and my gun was affected by the recall, so I send it in.

This morning I got the idea to go check my maggot magazines, since they had been sitting loaded for about 2 weeks and had only been in the mag well of the gun once to check to see if they fit with the slide locked forward. Both mags appeared to have the rounds positioned correctly. I placed slight downward pressure on the rounds to simulate the position of rounds with a closed slide and Viola exactly the same reported issue with the 8 round magazines. Spring frozen in place, strip top round, remaining rounds rattle around in place and fall out, after 3 rounds fell out of the magazine the follower slammed up and seemed to position the rounds correctly. I started to hand strip the magazine to see if they would all feed out. The next 2 round fed correctly, the next round was blocked by the now vertical bottom round at the front of the magazine.

I tried for about 20 minutes and could not get either of the two kits to replicate this again. Needless to say, these are going to remain range mags only, it I don’t send them back. While I really like the idea behind these kits, the reliability or them is highly suspect when they have been in a stand-by mode for any period of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I read this thread when it first came out, and already had two kits on the way for my 7 round magazines. I have 4 7 round mags, two for EDC carry and two for range use. I installed the kits into the range magazines when they arrived. I intended to take them to the range and put them through their paces before deciding if I would make them part of my EDC. About that time the PPS recall happened and my gun was affected by the recall, so I send it in.

This morning I got the idea to go check my maggot magazines, since they had been sitting loaded for about 2 weeks and had only been in the mag well of the gun once to check to see if they fit with the slide locked forward. Both mags appeared to have the rounds positioned correctly. I placed slight downward pressure on the rounds to simulate the position of rounds with a closed slide and Viola exactly the same reported issue with the 8 round magazines. Spring frozen in place, strip top round, remaining rounds rattle around in place and fall out, after 3 rounds fell out of the magazine the follower slammed up and seemed to position the rounds correctly. I started to hand strip the magazine to see if they would all feed out. The next 2 round fed correctly, the next round was blocked by the now vertical bottom round at the front of the magazine.

I tried for about 20 minutes and could not get either of the two kits to replicate this again. Needless to say, these are going to remain range mags only, it I don’t send them back. While I really like the idea behind these kits, the reliability or them is highly suspect when they have been in a stand-by mode for any period of time.
Sorry to hear you've had the same problem, but glad if my post was able to alert anyone. Especially since only a few months before, on this forum, I was quite vocal in supporting Magguts as being reliable based only on my experience with the 6 round magazine (which has been flawless from day one).

So far their responses to me have been "We can't replicate the issue" and "Ensure you've installed according to the video -- it should function flawlessly." They have offered to refund me.

I do hope they examine and fix this issue, as it is definitely systemic. The explanation about the follower getting jammed beneath the metal magazine, down inside the plastic grip extension, sounds spot on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
My email to Magguts

I sent the following to them this morning. I hope this will lead to a recall of the spring kits. Walther could be blamed for cheaping out on manufacturing their extended magazines, but on the other hand, it's up to 3rd parties to accommodate that. I hope there's a favorable response.

--------------------------------------------------------

I have since found through communications on Walther forums that other people are experiencing exactly the same problem with both the 7 and 8 round magazines.

One poster wrote:

This morning I got the idea to go check my Magguts magazines. Both mags appeared to have the rounds positioned correctly. I placed slight downward pressure on the rounds to simulate the position of rounds with a closed slide and Viola exactly the same reported issue with the 8 round magazines. Spring frozen in place, strip top round, remaining rounds rattle around in place and fall out, after 3 rounds fell out of the magazine the follower slammed up and seemed to position the rounds correctly. I started to hand strip the magazine to see if they would all feed out. The next 2 round fed correctly, the next round was blocked by the now vertical bottom round at the front of the magazine.

I tried for about 20 minutes and could not get either of the two kits to replicate this again.


Another posted what sounds like a very reasonable explanation for this rare but very real problem -- having to do with the thin Magguts follower becoming stuck beneath the metal frame of the magazine, inside the hollow plastic magazine extenders.

It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

I believe the explanation here is clear. Many other brands use longer magazine bodies for extended magazines, but Walther here has not, choosing instead to hollow grip extenders. Your follower is most definitely getting stuck down inside that extension and under the metal frame of the magazine. The tall plastic follower Walther uses in the stock magazines evidently is tall enough not to have this problem.

I'm not a machinist and don't know what a fix would be -- perhaps tapering or rounding the follower in your kit to prevent this? But this problem I filmed in the video is most definitely real, it's happening to other customers, and I do hope you'll be able to recall the spring kits and redesign around the issue.

---------------------------------------------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Walther could be blamed for cheaping out on manufacturing their extended magazines, but on the other hand, it's up to 3rd parties to accommodate that.
--------------------------------------------------------

Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

Well, I hope you get an answer to your problem. There seems to be a little finger pointing at Walther for "flawed" magazines. The magazines work fine as is, with the only problem being the addition of the Magguts. It's not Walther's responsibility to design and utilize a magazine to make it easy for third party vendors to have their product work.


I still think it's a lot of money for ONE round, but it's your money, nonetheless;).


Don
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top