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Discussion Starter #1
Hello..
Ive had my Q5 Match for a couple of months now and its awesome. I use it for IPSC. The first 1000 rounds were reloads from a guy at the club, 124g round nose copper coated I think, a hair over 29mm OAL, ran flawlessly. I have since bought a Dillon square deal press and have loaded 135g hollow points to 27.4 OAL and 5 perhaps 10 in a hundred jamb up gun, slide wont close fully or sometimes I can't even pull the slide back to rack it. Two guys have told me to make the OAL a mill or two under 27.4 but the round nose are way longer than this and work fine. And if all my loads are identical as they should be why do most of the HP rounds work and some don't?
Thank you :D
 

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They’re telling you that the bullet may be jammed into the lands. A reloading manual should list the expected OAL for your bullet to fit correctly in a typical 9mm chamber.

You are using .355 bullets, not some 358 designed for a 38, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes I just checked .355 bullets, I took the barrel out and dropped both the round nose and the hp into the chamber. They both seem to sit at the same depth.. or is that not an indication? The wider hp might still be touching the rifling?
 

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Are you gauge checking every round?

1.08 OAL is fairly short. They should plunk test no problem at that length. Maybe your brass is expanding out too much.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Is a plunk test dropping it into the chamber? should the round turn smoothly in it? is that how you test if its binding? How do you mean 'gauge checking every round'?

I have noticed that the reloaded brass has a slight ridge around it where the base of the bullet ends inside the case. The HP bullet is fractionally larger than the resized brass. But I showed this to the bloke I bought the projectiles from, he said that's fine.. The round nose do not have that ridge, however they are a 10g lighter bullet.
 

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Yeah that’s the plunk test. If you don’t have a case gauge you should really get one. Especially if you shoot IPSC. I never take ammo to a match that hasn’t been gauge tested. I also have a Square Deal the odd one will fail due to crappy brass. I see maybe 2-3 in every 500.

Does the projectile manufacturer have load data? What is your crimp set to?
 

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I can't specifically speak to the Q5, but in my experience loading for the P99 and the P99c, which are likely similar, Walther guns, much like CZs, have fairly short, tight chambers. It's not uncommon to have to load some bullets fairly short in order to get them to case gauge/plunk test properly.

The reason the round nose bullets worked at a longer OAL is likely that they have a "pointier" profile - JHPs tend to be full caliber width farther up the bullet, which ends up meaning that for any given OAL, they're more likely to jam into the rifling.

In any case, whenever you start working up a load with a new bullet, you need to plunk test before you do anything else in order to find the maximum OAL for that bullet in your gun. Start with an empty case, size it and bell it. (Don't bother with a primer or powder). Seat a bullet at a fairly long OAL, crimp, and drop the resulting dummy round into your chamber. If it falls in, spins freely, and falls out without resistance, you can go longer. If it doesn't, seat the bullet deeper and try again until it does. Once you get to an OAL where it drops in and spins freely, you've found the maximum OAL for that bullet, and that bullet only in your specific barrel. Most people like to shorten it up by an additional .005 inch/.125mm in order to allow for variations in brass, bullets, and how they run the press. If the OAL you found is significantly lower than the recipe you're trying to follow calls for, back the start charge off by a few tenths and work up slowly and carefully. If you don't have a chronograph, buy or borrow one for this process, especially since you're loading for IPSC - you need to be sure you're hitting minimum 125 power factor. (Personally, I prefer to be at 130+ in order to allow for variations when I get chronoed at a match. Chasing 125.0 PF is a fool's errand that will only result in you shooting not for score at some point.)

Hopefully that explanation helps - if you have any questions, feel free to ask here or PM me. Additionally, this forum is a great resource on reloading 9mm: https://forums.brianenos.com/forum/72-9mm38-caliber/
 

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One other note - regarding your "if my rounds are identical as they should be" question: no press is perfect, there are variations between different pieces of brass, especially if you're loading mixed headstamps, your press has some small amount of flex in it, and I can just about guarantee that you don't pull the handle *exactly* the same way every time. All of those factors add up to not every single round you produce being exactly identical in OAL. That's why some of them work and some don't - you're probably right at the edge of the maximum OAL those JHP bullets can be loaded to in your gun, so when you create one that's on the longer end of the variation range you're producing, it doesn't work, where the shorter ones do.
 

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One other note - regarding your "if my rounds are identical as they should be" question: no press is perfect, there are variations between different pieces of brass, especially if you're loading mixed headstamps, your press has some small amount of flex in it, and I can just about guarantee that you don't pull the handle *exactly* the same way every time. All of those factors add up to not every single round you produce being exactly identical in OAL. That's why some of them work and some don't - you're probably right at the edge of the maximum OAL those JHP bullets can be loaded to in your gun, so when you create one that's on the longer end of the variation range you're producing, it doesn't work, where the shorter ones do.

I was wondering about this and his crimp causing the bullet jump.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks lads that’s great reading... the load data I got from the projectile seller is 135gns HP 3.6g, APS 450 powder, (Australian powder) 27.4m OAL. He said to crimp the bullet only very slightly. ‘Slightly’ does give the brass a bit of a sharp edge to it.
 

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Generally speaking, in 9mm, crimp should only be removing the bell, which is probably why your guy said "slightly." The final case mouth diameter with the bullet seated and crimped should be 2x case wall thickness (measure with calipers, usually 9mm case walls are .011" thick) + bullet diameter. With a .355" bullet, that means .377" (9.576mm) with the bullet seated and crimped. If you load .356" bullets or you have brass with slightly thicker walls, you may wind up at .378" or .379". If you crimp so that that measurement is under 2x case wall thickness + bullet diameter, the mouth of the case will start to cut into the bullet, which can cause major problems with plated, coated, and bare lead. It's less of an issue with jacketed, but there's still no reason to crimp super tightly - as long as your sizing die is doing its job properly, neck tension will hold the bullet just fine.

I'm not familiar with the powder you're using, but I'd say that since it sounds like you're going to need to shorten your OAL a bit from what was recommended in that recipe, you'll probably want to back off to 3.5 or 3.4 grains and chrono it to see where you're at. You should also take a close look at the spent cases, especially the primers - there are clues there that can let you know if you're pushing pressure too high. Do a google image search for "flattened primers" and "9mm reloading pressure signs" and you'll see some examples.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That's awesome thank you, the loaded case measured .379" so I'm in the ball park. I'll seat the HP a millimeter lower and drop the charge a grain or so as you mentioned, see how that runs in the gun.
 

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That's awesome thank you, the loaded case measured .379" so I'm in the ball park.
Sounds like a decent plan. You might even be able to crimp a tiny bit tighter than you are now, but as long as you get acceptable accuracy with the crimp at .379", I'd leave it alone - it's too easy to screw stuff up by messing with crimp, and if you ever switch to .356" or .357" bullets, that crimp level should be compatible with them as well.
 

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I'm loading 147gr RN Blue Bullets on top of 3.4gr of TiteGroup. OAL is 1.14", which may seem short, but I use the same round in my Shadow 2, and the CZ has a tighter chamber than the Q5. Rounds than will pass a plunk test in the Walther will not in the CZ. The rounds are more accurate than I am and are very soft shooting. The guns will function with 3.2gr of TiteGroup just fine, but may not achieve a desired PF.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
This is odd, I seated the HP a tad lower from 27.45mm to 27.24 and it totally failed the plunk test. wouldn't drop all the way into the chamber nor drop out of the chamber. Set the bullet back to 27.45 and it passes...:confused:
Actually I just loaded up to the original recipe and checked the plunk test, some passed and some didn't. Could my Match Champion just not like Hollow points?
 

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Sounds more like it could be the brass, especially if it has been shot through a Glock or loaded several times. I have run many rounds through my Q5. Typical load is 147 grn plated round nose with 3.6 of Win 231. OAL 1.135-1.14. Crimp with a Lee carbide factory crimp die and also using the Lee undersized sizing die and decapper. I will get the occasional stuck piece of brass but I run a lot of picked up range brass through the Q5 with very few issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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This is odd, I seated the HP a tad lower from 27.45mm to 27.24 and it totally failed the plunk test. wouldn't drop all the way into the chamber nor drop out of the chamber. Set the bullet back to 27.45 and it passes...:confused:
Can you post a picture of both the bullets you're loading and a round that fails the plunk test? Also, single headstamp brass, or mixed? Is there a pattern to which headstamp is giving you the most failures?
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Well I swapped the HP 136g for RN of the same weight and same deal, most work but a lot don't. The ammo I got from the guy at the range that work constantly are the reloaded RN 124g. Is it possibly the heavier bullet causing the problem? The only visual difference in the ones that work and my reloads that don't is the ridge in the brass caused by the larger 136g bullet.


The round on the right is my reload and the one on the left is the other guys that always work. I don't know if its the problem but see how the brass has expanded with the larger 136g projectile on the right... I seem to have less crimp too, but I don't think that's making a difference.
 

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Looks like you still have a bit of a flare on the case. I'd try increasing your crimp. I really do recommend a case gauge. It will save you a ton of hassle.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Can I just use my barrel out of the gun for a case gauge? using the plunk test?




Oh I did just that, increased the crimp and they're all plunking just fine. Thanks for all the input guys... I feel a tad embarrassed :eek:
 
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