[michael]

I have just acquired a nearly new PPS/S-1 from a friend. He didn't like it and I got really good deal on it.

The gun arrived and I found out why he didn't like it. The recoil spring is well above the 20# rating the good folks at Walther say it is. The hammer spring is similarly afflicted. It measures 23#.

Wolff offers a 13# "target use only" recoil spring for the PPK and I installed it. It is still heavy to me. It isn't bad in single action but in double action I think it can be a lot better.

Many years ago I did the trigger on my interarms PPk/S and the spring I used for that trigger job was painted red. I suspect it came from Brownells but they don't seem to even sell a reduced power hammer spring for the Walthers any longer.

Does anyone know who makes a reduced power hammer / main spring that is red???

Thanks in Advance,

Michael

 

[BennyMA]

Hi Michael

Don't know myself, but maybe Earl would?
http://www.carlwalther.com/page1.htm

 

[michael]

How could I have overlooked that, thank you!  This isn't the kind of spring a factory approved shop would install, not for the last 25 years anyway but I am sure he will know where it came from.

 

[michael]

Well... I got the reply I expected. I began my question by introducing myself. I realized they would probably not be interested in performing the work I wanted done but that I was looking for a reduced power hammer spring for a PPK/S. I got a very practiced. "We cannot suggest or reccomend a part not specified by the factory". I tried a few variations of the same question and got the same relpy.

I tried playing the hypothetical "what if" game asking about gun springs not specifically Walther. He'd played that game already as well. The gentlemen was very polite in the "I'm form New York but now I live in MA so therefore I must listen to you" sort of way, but was unwilling to help.

Before I get heat from saying that my mothers people have inhabited the North East since 1640, specifically the area of the Massachusetts Bay Colony which is now New Hampshire.

 

[battlecry]

Michael:

I'm a little confused. Are you looking for a hammer or a recoil spring or both? I changed my hammer spring for a Wolff 16# spring myself. It is easy to do and you only need a flat blade screwdriver and a punch and about, say three minutes. I got the package deal from Wolff expecting to start at 16 and increase the rate if I encountered failures but so far it works fine. The hammer faces and bearing surfaces have been polished, and that may help the action with low rate springs. YMMV.

The recoil spring is another matter entirely. It is sized for expected recoil and the mass of the slide to achieve the correct timing to feed properly with the magazine spring. While I can see changing hammer springs as a home cheesburger gunsmith operation, recoil springs are not. I think I can tell quickly if the reduced hammer spring is wrong. Not so for recoil springs as a different ammo may alter the timing and cause FTF or peening damage to the slide stop.

That said, if you want to experiment and have some ammo and a range, Wolff has a 14# recoil spring as part of a tuning set.

http://www.gunsprings.com/SemiAuto/Walther.html#PPKS9mm

Regards,

R

 

[michael t]

I use the 16 in mine remember these will weaken with use. As the first DA shot is a OH!!! S###!!!!! shot  you will never notice. If BG is at distance I would thumb cock any way. Leave recoil spring alone Just use good hot ammo for SD I use Corbon It will overcome that spring. DPX is best 90grHP next I don't like power ball.

 

[battlecry]

+1 on what Miachael t said. For whatever it is worth, one thing I noticed about the Corbon was the noticeable fireball in lightly lit ranges. The Speer has somewhat less exit velocity at the muzzle but one of the highest velocities at 50yds. and less fireball effect.

 

[michael]

Hammer spring, main spring whatever you want to call it serves one purpose, to supply sufficient force to drive the firing pin into the primer and ignite the cartridge.  Walther specifies a 20# spring.  The spring in my PPK/S-1 was at least 22#.  The reason Walther uses such a heavy spring is simple.  Liability.  A 22# hammer spring and a 20# recoil spring = a gun no child under 10 can accidently discharge the pistol.  I would guess a 10 year old boy or 12 year old girl would be unable to cycle my S-1.  I bet my wife would struggle with it.

As I have no children and am in California and am required to have a gun safe to keep all the neighborhood kids safe in case one "accidently" gets ahold of one of my guns (read breaks in and steals one)as such  I have no interest in Bureaucrat springs.  The recoil spring is another matter.  It must be sufficiently strong to properly cycle the pistol and not beat the frame to death nor be so strong to short stroke the slide and cause a jam.  If you change the hammer spring you can change the recoil spring as well but I wouldn't go too light.  You need not change the recil spring when you change the hammer spring though.

I opted for the 13# hammer spring and will probably install a 16-18 pound recoil spring.  Remember part of the recoil process is cocking the hammer.  It is better to err on the side of too much recoil spring than not enough.  You know when you have too little hammer spring when the spring is not sufficiently strong to ignite the primer.  Lighter hammer srings may mean a lighter firing pin spring, but not always.

There is a hammer spring lighter than the 13 pound unit Wolff sells.  (remember Wolff is potentially liable too).  I can't seem to find out where I got my last one.  Fortunatley I still have it in my PPK/S.

 

[michael]

This search has been something else.  

I found the kit I was looking for.  It is by:  

Trapper Gun Incorporated
30183 Gratiot Ave
Roseville, MI 48066
(586) 776-7581

The kit for the Walther PPK/S is part number WA-1.  It is $9.95 and $4. to ship but I assure you it is worth 10 times that.  It includes One (1) reduced power recoil spring, One (1) extra power (lighter than walther's standard spring) hammer spring. and one really wonderful smooth (as butter) hammer spring. When the Nill Grips arrive and I polish this thing up I'll post a few pics.

 

[battlecry]

Cool. Let us know how it works out.

 

[michael]

They work very well.  I've had this kit in my PPK/S since 1988.  I am sure it will be just as good in the PPK/S-1. The company is old school and doesn't have a website which made it a little hard to find. I generally keep the bits of left over manufacturers literature for 5 years and then toss it.

I'd lost track of where the kit came from and happened across it in my search after installing the 13# Wolff hammer spring, which was better but not great.  

I have a couple of 13# Wolff hammer springs and a couple Recoil packs for sale.  Anyone...

 

[ExFederale]

Smoother double action-DA in PPK/PP

I have used this method on older 1960s original PP/PPK
pistols in 380/9mmK Walthers and it works well.

For more details -contact me PM.

In addition to a lighter hammer spring, the spring contact portion of
the hammer strut needs to be polished to a mirror brite smooth surface.
The INSIDE of the hammer spring also needs the same treatment.
(this is NOT easy) When both strut and spring are 600 grit/jewelers rouge polished , and added to the geometry of a lighter hammer spring-you are close. Then test the pistol in hot and COLD weather for reliable function with live test
rounds. Then test with performance cartridges you will carry. (Keep extra hammer springs handy)

None of this is overly complicated, but it must be done thoroughly-
and the pistol MUST be tested after completion. Results in smoother and
much less stiff DA pull in your Walther.
Product/personal liability: Not responsible for errors-bad judgment

Credited to: Mason Williams
Ancient pistol smith and gun writer: 1967-68

 

[searcher451]

Just a heads-up, but this thread is 10 years old, and almost to the day.

 

[ExFederale]

PP-PPk-PPK/S Action work

The last German original PPK imports came into the US in 1968-through
Interarms of Alexandia, VA.

It is an appropriate-catch up- thread addition that many owners are unaware of even at this late date.

Through careful polishing and spring work-the hammer spring can be modified or replaced by lighter Wolff springs.
The result is a smoother DA function for your particular Walther.



Searcher:
PS: Does WALTHER FORUMS list a section for its members-as a separate
heading: Stolen Walther firearms?? It might be a nice small addition
with description, model, caliber and Serial number.
Thanks-RM

 

[UniversalExports]

The last German original PPK imports came into the US in 1968-through Interarms of Alexandia, VA.

More came in after that, but those were destined for law enforcement officers.

 

[searcher451]

Does WALTHER FORUMS list a section for its members-as a separate heading: Stolen Walther firearms??

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/faq-general-discussion/28226-should-we-have-lost-stolen-list-here.html

Despite the age of this particular thread, let's keep it on track if additional discussion is warranted. Thanks.

 

[ExFederale]

Older pistols still need smooth actions

Jeff Cooper once criticized double action semi- automatic pistols
as being not good because of two types of trigger pull and weight.
If the DA trigger is smoothed, most critics say goodbye.

We also should have a stolen gun "Bulletin Board".

In my case: 1967 PPK in .380ACP/9mm kurz SN 121515A
STOLEN: 1968

Thanks

 

[halfmoonclip]

If I recall, Cooper called them 'krunchentickers' (double/single action pistols), and as the king of the 1911, had utterly no time for anything but a single action trigger.
Wonder how the OP made out; trying to give the PP series a great first shot rarely ends well.
Moon

 

[ExFederale]

Polizei Pistole (Police pistol)-PP

Cooper was indeed a single action 1911 Colt admirer. As a Marine LtCol,
his view came from seeing the results and doing the research.
BUT, the PP/PPK pistols were designed in the late 20s-1930s for
law enforcement/ govt service use. In that -Walther succeeded beyond their
own vision. And as such, arrested individuals need to be watched at gun point, but not shot. In THAT capacity, a smooth DA auto or revolver has not been equaled. (BOTH require training and practice)
The PP in 7.65 was exceedingly popular throughout Europe, followed by the
PPK because of the quality and function. Until recently with Kahr and others,
the Walthers always were popular among security and police services worldwide. Reliable quality in the German-French versions. (Those are all that I own). Cooper owned at least two early PPKs-possibly in 22LR.

Marriott

Early Walthers-BMW motorraden-Wagen-Weiss bier-Guinness-1911s

 

[halfmoonclip]

We could debate trigger systems at some length; the transition from a heavy first shot to a light second is not considered a great idea by many. The 'deliberate' triggers of striker fired pistols is another solution, with some effort between you and 'boom'.
The Colonel wasn't especially fond of any caliber that didn't start with a 4, and he wasn't sure a .45 ACP was enough gun.
Moon