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Discussion Starter #1
I want to zero my 5" P22 for 82' ( 25 meters ) but I want to do this from a much shorter distance. The reason is that I can't really see that well at 82' and find it much harder to hold the dot precisely dead center on a tiny aimpoint even from a rest. At 21' or 30', etc., there is no such issue. I can dim the 4 moa dot, put it precisely on a 1/8" dia dot. The center of my red dot is 1" above the bore axis. I realize there is going to be some variance between this ammo and that ammo but is there a formulae or set of rules for zeroing for 25 meters with such a set up. Fox example....point of impact needs to be 1/2" below point of aim at 27' since the round is bing lobbed upwards and where it crosses the dot going up coincides with where it recrosses on the way down at 82'. And I won't be able to use a three line long equation with alien symbols in it. Thanks in advance. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #2


For example, above is a 10 round group at 27'. I can do this from bags because I can place the dot precisely on the point of aim. Here the red dot had been installed and I just shot a mag full to make sure the sight stayed tight and everything worked well. It did. Then using other dots I zeroed and then put a couple through the blue dot. red dot worked good, zeroed for 27'......but what about 82'? This is why I want to zero at a distance that I can see the aim point. 82' is too far for me to zero like this. Get the windage right and all that is left is elevation. I can zero here at a reasonable distance but not at 25m. So, I want to zero here for 82' and not at the range or the farm. 1917
 

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I've used Ballistic Calculator GunData.org . It's pretty good. I just ran a calculation using .22 Long Rifle High Velocity, Aguila Interceptor HP, 40gr. zeroed at 10 yards (30') and showing a graph for 100 yards. According to that, the bullet would climb thru your zero (actual .0145) @ (30'), continue upwards to cross 27 yards (81') at +1.234, continue climbing to a peak of +2.0796 at 55 yards, then drop to -.2798 at 100 yards.

You'd need to chrono your ammo to get a better calculation.

Here's your chart.


96209



Range (yards)Drop
(inches)
VelocityEnergyWind drift
(inches)
Time
(milliseconds)
AAAAA
0-0.982514691920.00001
1-0.878314651910.00003
2-0.775714611900.00005
3-0.674814571890.00007
4-0.575414521870.00009
5-0.477814481860.000011
6-0.381814441850.000013
7-0.287414401840.000015
8-0.194814361830.000017
9-0.103814321820.000019
10-0.014514271810.000021
110.073114231800.000024
120.158914191790.000026
130.243014151780.000028
140.325414111770.000030
150.406114071760.000032
160.485014031750.000034
170.562113991740.000036
180.637513951730.000038
190.711013911720.000041
200.782813871710.000043
210.852813831700.000045
220.920913791690.000047
230.987213751680.000049
241.051713711670.000051
251.114313671660.000054
261.175113631650.000056
271.234013601640.000058
281.291013561630.000060
291.346113521620.000062
301.399413481610.000065
311.450713441600.000067
321.500113411600.000069
331.547513371590.000071
341.593013331580.000074
351.636613291570.000076
361.678213261560.000078
371.717813221550.000080
381.755413181540.000083
391.791013151540.000085
401.824613111530.000087
411.856213071520.000090
421.885813041510.000092
431.913313001500.000094
441.938712961490.000096
451.962112931480.000099
461.983412891480.0000101
472.002612861470.0000103
482.019712821460.0000106
492.034712791450.0000108
502.047612751440.0000110
512.058312721440.0000113
522.066912691430.0000115
532.073312651420.0000118
542.077612621410.0000120
552.079612581410.0000122
562.079512551400.0000125
572.077212521390.0000127
582.072612481380.0000129
592.065812451380.0000132
602.056812421370.0000134
612.045512391360.0000137
622.032012351350.0000139
632.016212321350.0000142
641.998112291340.0000144
651.977712261330.0000146
661.954912231330.0000149
671.929912201320.0000151
681.902512161310.0000154
691.872812131310.0000156
701.840712101300.0000159
711.806212071290.0000161
721.769312041290.0000164
731.730112011280.0000166
741.688411981270.0000169
751.644311951270.0000171
761.597811921260.0000174
771.548911891260.0000176
781.497411871250.0000179
791.443611841240.0000181
801.387211811240.0000184
811.328311781230.0000186
821.267011751230.0000189
831.203111721220.0000192
841.136711701220.0000194
851.067711671210.0000197
860.996211641200.0000199
870.922111611200.0000202
880.845511591190.0000204
890.766211561190.0000207
900.684411531180.0000210
910.599911511180.0000212
920.512811481170.0000215
930.423111451160.0000217
940.330711431160.0000220
950.235711401150.0000223
960.138011381150.0000225
970.037611351140.0000228
98-0.065511331140.0000231
99-0.171311301130.0000233
100-0.279811281130.0000236
 

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Here's data zeroed at 27 yards (81'). At 81' (27 yards) you want to be printing .477" low at 10 yards (30 feet).

96211


AAAAA
RangeDrop
(inches)
VelocityEnergyWind drift
(inches)
Time
(milliseconds)
0-0.990114691920.00001
1-0.931414651910.00003
2-0.874314611900.00005
3-0.818814571890.00007
4-0.765014521870.00009
5-0.712814481860.000011
6-0.662314441850.000013
7-0.613414401840.000015
8-0.566314361830.000017
9-0.520814321820.000019
10-0.477014271810.000021
11-0.434914231800.000024
12-0.394614191790.000026
13-0.355914151780.000028
14-0.319014111770.000030
15-0.283914071760.000032
16-0.250514031750.000034
17-0.218813991740.000036
18-0.189013951730.000038
19-0.160913911720.000041
20-0.134613871710.000043
21-0.110113831700.000045
22-0.087513791690.000047
23-0.066713751680.000049
24-0.047713711670.000051
25-0.030513671660.000054
26-0.015313631650.000056
27-0.001813601640.000058
280.009713561630.000060
290.019313521620.000062
300.027113481610.000065
310.032913441600.000067
320.036813411600.000069
330.038713371590.000071
340.038813331580.000074
350.036813291570.000076
360.032913261560.000078
370.027013221550.000080
380.019213181540.000083
390.009313151540.000085
40-0.002613111530.000087
41-0.016513071520.000090
42-0.032413041510.000092
43-0.050413001500.000094
44-0.070512971490.000096
45-0.092612931480.000099
46-0.116812891480.0000101
47-0.143112861470.0000103
48-0.171412821460.0000106
49-0.201912791450.0000108
50-0.234612751440.0000110
51-0.269312721440.0000113
52-0.306212691430.0000115
53-0.345312651420.0000118
54-0.386512621410.0000120
55-0.430012581410.0000122
56-0.475612551400.0000125
57-0.523412521390.0000127
58-0.573412481380.0000129
59-0.625712451380.0000132
60-0.680212421370.0000134
61-0.737012391360.0000137
62-0.796012351350.0000139
63-0.857412321350.0000142
64-0.921012291340.0000144
65-0.986912261330.0000146
66-1.055112231330.0000149
67-1.125612201320.0000151
68-1.198512161310.0000154
69-1.273712131310.0000156
70-1.351312101300.0000159
71-1.431312071290.0000161
72-1.513612041290.0000164
73-1.598412011280.0000166
74-1.685511981270.0000169
75-1.775111951270.0000171
76-1.867111921260.0000174
77-1.961611891260.0000176
78-2.058511871250.0000179
79-2.157811841240.0000181
80-2.259711811240.0000184
81-2.364111781230.0000186
82-2.470911751230.0000189
83-2.580311721220.0000192
84-2.692211701220.0000194
85-2.806711671210.0000197
86-2.923711641200.0000199
87-3.043211611200.0000202
88-3.165411591190.0000204
89-3.290111561190.0000207
90-3.417411531180.0000210
91-3.547411511180.0000212
92-3.680011481170.0000215
93-3.815211451160.0000217
94-3.953011431160.0000220
95-4.093611401150.0000223
96-4.236811381150.0000225
97-4.382611351140.0000228
98-4.531211331140.0000231
99-4.682511301130.0000233
100-4.836511281130.0000236
 

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Nice, but:
  • your sights are not 1" above barrel axis
  • muzzle velocity is not 1469´

So you must add some new coefficients into calculator...
"You'd need to chrono your ammo to get a better calculation. "
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Oldfart and Igrlik. Here is a somewhat useful site. No ballistic curves but it does have velocity out of different barrel lengths and with several popular makes of ammo. CCI, Rem, etc. A P22 is actually used as one pistol but it is the 3.4" barrel model. The 5" pistol is a Kimber 1911 style if I remember correctly. Looks like 5" velocities are in the 1,000 to 1,100 fps unless you shoot Stingers, Yellow Jackets, Velocitors, etc. 1917

 

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Discussion Starter #8
96216


This is all the detail I get on that site. Bore -1", zero at 27 yds.....CCI sub sonic at 1050 fps and it looks like about 1/2" low zero at 10 yds to be on track at 27 yds.
 

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Go back and do that again, and scroll down to see the table.....

I just ran it again....here's the data I used.

96222


And, here's the graph and table. At 10 yards (30 feet) your low (-.3499). The bullet reached a peak height of +.0112 @ 25 yards and is now starting to descend. At 27 yards (81 feet) your at +.0031 (we'll call that 'Zero'). At 100 yards your down 10.56 inches. At 150 yards you'll hit em' in the balls....they'll just think its a flea bite.

96223


RangeDrop
(inches)
VelocityEnergyWind drift
(inches)
Time
(milliseconds)
AAAAA
0-0.986810801040.00001
1-0.909410771030.00004
2-0.835010741020.00007
3-0.763710711020.00009
4-0.695310681010.000012
5-0.630010651010.000015
6-0.567810621000.000018
7-0.508710601000.000021
8-0.45261057990.000023
9-0.39971054990.000026
10-0.34991052980.000029
11-0.30321049980.000032
12-0.25971046970.000035
13-0.21941044970.000038
14-0.18221041960.000041
15-0.14831039960.000043
16-0.11761036950.000046
17-0.09011034950.000049
18-0.06591031940.000052
19-0.04501029940.000055
20-0.02731026930.000058
21-0.01291024930.000061
22-0.00191022930.000064
230.00581019920.000067
240.01021017920.000070
250.01121015910.000073
260.00891012910.000076
270.00311010910.000079
28-0.00601008900.000082
29-0.01861006900.000085
30-0.03461004900.000088
31-0.05411001890.000091
32-0.0771999890.000094
33-0.1035997880.000097
34-0.1334995880.0000100
35-0.1668993880.0000103
36-0.2038991870.0000106
37-0.2443989870.0000109
38-0.2883987870.0000112
39-0.3359985860.0000115
40-0.3871983860.0000118
41-0.4419981850.0000121
42-0.5003979850.0000124
43-0.5624977850.0000127
44-0.6281975840.0000130
45-0.6974973840.0000133
46-0.7704971840.0000136
47-0.8471969830.0000139
48-0.9275967830.0000142
49-1.0116965830.0000145
50-1.0995964830.0000149
51-1.1911962820.0000152
52-1.2864960820.0000155
53-1.3855958820.0000158
54-1.4884956810.0000161
55-1.5952955810.0000164
56-1.7057953810.0000167
57-1.8200951800.0000171
58-1.9382949800.0000174
59-2.0603948800.0000177
60-2.1862946790.0000180
61-2.3160944790.0000183
62-2.4497942790.0000186
63-2.5874941790.0000190
64-2.7289939780.0000193
65-2.8744937780.0000196
66-3.0239936780.0000199
67-3.1773934770.0000202
68-3.3347932770.0000206
69-3.4961931770.0000209
70-3.6615929770.0000212
71-3.8310927760.0000215
72-4.0045926760.0000219
73-4.1820924760.0000222
74-4.3636923760.0000225
75-4.5493921750.0000228
76-4.7391920750.0000232
77-4.9331918750.0000235
78-5.1311916750.0000238
79-5.3333915740.0000241
80-5.5396913740.0000245
81-5.7501912740.0000248
82-5.9648910740.0000251
83-6.1836909730.0000255
84-6.4067907730.0000258
85-6.6340906730.0000261
86-6.8656904730.0000264
87-7.1014903720.0000268
88-7.3414901720.0000271
89-7.5858900720.0000274
90-7.8344898720.0000278
91-8.0874897710.0000281
92-8.3446895710.0000284
93-8.6062894710.0000288
94-8.8722893710.0000291
95-9.1425891700.0000295
96-9.4172890700.0000298
97-9.6963888700.0000301
98-9.9798887700.0000305
99-10.2677885700.0000308
100-10.5600884690.0000311
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK, this is what I'm looking for. This should be plenty close for off hand shooting at 25 meters. Many thank oldfart. 1917
 

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I zero my P22 at 12.5 yards distance and it is dead-on at 25 yards with a six o'clock hold.
Open sights are best sighted in at 12.5 yards and scopes at 25 yards, before doing fine adjustments for longer distance targets.
Screenshot 2021-01-10 at 11.08.43 AM.png
 

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I want to zero my 5" P22 for 82' ( 25 meters ) but I want to do this from a much shorter distance. The reason is that I can't really see that well at 82' and find it much harder to hold the dot precisely dead center on a tiny aimpoint even from a rest. At 21' or 30', etc., there is no such issue. I can dim the 4 moa dot, put it precisely on a 1/8" dia dot. The center of my red dot is 1" above the bore axis. I realize there is going to be some variance between this ammo and that ammo but is there a formulae or set of rules for zeroing for 25 meters with such a set up. Fox example....point of impact needs to be 1/2" below point of aim at 27' since the round is bing lobbed upwards and where it crosses the dot going up coincides with where it recrosses on the way down at 82'. And I won't be able to use a three line long equation with alien symbols in it. Thanks in advance. 1917
Theoretically, yes. You could run a ballistic calculation for your projectile at your muzzle velocity, using a 25 yard zero (Sites-VistaFederal-Site). Then simply look at the offset at 7 yards and make sure your impacts at 7 yards are 0.5” higher than POA.

This is where I think the problem with theory manifests. Is a 0.5” offset in POI caused by you, the ammunition, or the optic zero? Given this, I don’t see how you could be assured that you have achieved a 25 yard zero without confirming such at 25 yards. At that distance, the ammunition, and you, are likely to induce a spread that you will allow you to easily tell whether you are zeroed.
 

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Theoretically, yes. You could run a ballistic calculation for your projectile at your muzzle velocity, using a 25 yard zero (Sites-VistaFederal-Site). Then simply look at the offset at 7 yards and make sure your impacts at 7 yards are 0.5” higher than POA.

This is where I think the problem with theory manifests. Is a 0.5” offset in POI caused by you, the ammunition, or the optic zero? Given this, I don’t see how you could be assured that you have achieved a 25 yard zero without confirming such at 25 yards. At that distance, the ammunition, and you, are likely to induce a spread that you will allow you to easily tell whether you are zeroed.
The shooter's hand and eyes matter more than any armchair ballistics software calculating approximate variants.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
All I'm trying to do is prepare my pistol for the next farm visit. I can't shoot at 25 meters here in the hood....even suppressed. Well, I guess I could since I live on 3.5 acres but prefer not to. I can easily shoot 10 yards with no one the wiser. I am unsure if I can zero any better at 82' even from a rest. The dot covers a lot of area at that distance...even when turned down. What I want to be is in the ballpark for my next trip to the farm....next weekend and not have to spend a lot of time zeroing. I realize that different ammo is going to print differently....but not that much as I've already fired a variety of ammo from a mechanical rest at 82' and the groups are in the 1" and under range. To a certain extent better accuracy is moot to me....I'm old and shaky and won't be able to hold the pistol any steadier to begin with....did I mention I start the day with four or five cups of coffee. One other thing I would like to know is......how is the suppressor affecting my groups. The thing gets the pistol so dirty that I'm thinking of removing it except for times when I actually might need it suppressed. I wear ear cups even with it on. But this dirt is incredible from the blowback. I'm swapping my new Shield red dot onto the target pistol while the old one goes back to England for repair/replacement and I want to zero here and hit the farm running. I have so much to do.....any set up I can do here will be of benefit while there. What I really want to do is show Crete I can shoot better than he can......I've been known to move up close or use a sharp pencil to make good groups. Heck, Oldfart even caught some powder burns on one good group. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #16
OK, the pistol is zeroed 0.6" below the point of aim. I'll see how that prints at 25 meters. It will be hard to tell if it is me or the zero. What I'm looking for are 1" groups....yeah right. Last time I was not even close to zero, left and low. Hope to be more on target this next trip. I'll take my bags to see if I can tell anything from a rest. Unfortunately my new red dot has a small flare to the dot. I'll send it back too for the plastic lens to be replaced with glass. The plastic just isn't tough enough. I'm also going to remove the suppressor to keep the pistol cleaner....not sure what effect that might have on my zero. Shooting is fun...so, I will find out. 1917
 

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When in the farm experiment w/a 12.5-yards Point Of Aim (POA) and then a 10-yard POA and write down the results of Point of Impact when shooting POA at 25m/yards.

With open sights, the #2 front element works just fine when hits are made at the POA @ the 12.5-yards distance using Standard Vel ammo.
The #3 and #4 are for closer distances than 25m/yards.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK, leaving in the morning. I have to bring a Bobcat back as I cracked an arm on it....a very large arm. Will have to get it welded. I can tear up about anything it seems.....on the other hand..it is a 2001 model and has done a lot of work. Driving the F450 turbo diesel for four hours and dragging a trailer won't be fun. And that is just one way.....but, the P22 is zeroed and ready to go. I took the suppressor off.

Will do Crete. 1917
 
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