[1917-1911M]

I want to zero my 5" P22 for 82' ( 25 meters ) but I want to do this from a much shorter distance. The reason is that I can't really see that well at 82' and find it much harder to hold the dot precisely dead center on a tiny aimpoint even from a rest. At 21' or 30', etc., there is no such issue. I can dim the 4 moa dot, put it precisely on a 1/8" dia dot. The center of my red dot is 1" above the bore axis. I realize there is going to be some variance between this ammo and that ammo but is there a formulae or set of rules for zeroing for 25 meters with such a set up. Fox example....point of impact needs to be 1/2" below point of aim at 27' since the round is bing lobbed upwards and where it crosses the dot going up coincides with where it recrosses on the way down at 82'. And I won't be able to use a three line long equation with alien symbols in it. Thanks in advance. 1917

 

[1917-1911M]

For example, above is a 10 round group at 27'. I can do this from bags because I can place the dot precisely on the point of aim. Here the red dot had been installed and I just shot a mag full to make sure the sight stayed tight and everything worked well. It did. Then using other dots I zeroed and then put a couple through the blue dot. red dot worked good, zeroed for 27'......but what about 82'? This is why I want to zero at a distance that I can see the aim point. 82' is too far for me to zero like this. Get the windage right and all that is left is elevation. I can zero here at a reasonable distance but not at 25m. So, I want to zero here for 82' and not at the range or the farm. 1917

 

[imaoldfart]

I've used Ballistic Calculator GunData.org . It's pretty good. I just ran a calculation using .22 Long Rifle High Velocity, Aguila Interceptor HP, 40gr. zeroed at 10 yards (30') and showing a graph for 100 yards. According to that, the bullet would climb thru your zero (actual .0145) @ (30'), continue upwards to cross 27 yards (81') at +1.234, continue climbing to a peak of +2.0796 at 55 yards, then drop to -.2798 at 100 yards.

You'd need to chrono your ammo to get a better calculation.

Here's your chart.

Range (yards)	Drop (inches)	Velocity	Energy	Wind drift (inches)	Time (milliseconds)
A	A	A	A	A
0	-0.9825	1469	192	0.0000	1
1	-0.8783	1465	191	0.0000	3
2	-0.7757	1461	190	0.0000	5
3	-0.6748	1457	189	0.0000	7
4	-0.5754	1452	187	0.0000	9
5	-0.4778	1448	186	0.0000	11
6	-0.3818	1444	185	0.0000	13
7	-0.2874	1440	184	0.0000	15
8	-0.1948	1436	183	0.0000	17
9	-0.1038	1432	182	0.0000	19
10	-0.0145	1427	181	0.0000	21
11	0.0731	1423	180	0.0000	24
12	0.1589	1419	179	0.0000	26
13	0.2430	1415	178	0.0000	28
14	0.3254	1411	177	0.0000	30
15	0.4061	1407	176	0.0000	32
16	0.4850	1403	175	0.0000	34
17	0.5621	1399	174	0.0000	36
18	0.6375	1395	173	0.0000	38
19	0.7110	1391	172	0.0000	41
20	0.7828	1387	171	0.0000	43
21	0.8528	1383	170	0.0000	45
22	0.9209	1379	169	0.0000	47
23	0.9872	1375	168	0.0000	49
24	1.0517	1371	167	0.0000	51
25	1.1143	1367	166	0.0000	54
26	1.1751	1363	165	0.0000	56
27	1.2340	1360	164	0.0000	58
28	1.2910	1356	163	0.0000	60
29	1.3461	1352	162	0.0000	62
30	1.3994	1348	161	0.0000	65
31	1.4507	1344	160	0.0000	67
32	1.5001	1341	160	0.0000	69
33	1.5475	1337	159	0.0000	71
34	1.5930	1333	158	0.0000	74
35	1.6366	1329	157	0.0000	76
36	1.6782	1326	156	0.0000	78
37	1.7178	1322	155	0.0000	80
38	1.7554	1318	154	0.0000	83
39	1.7910	1315	154	0.0000	85
40	1.8246	1311	153	0.0000	87
41	1.8562	1307	152	0.0000	90
42	1.8858	1304	151	0.0000	92
43	1.9133	1300	150	0.0000	94
44	1.9387	1296	149	0.0000	96
45	1.9621	1293	148	0.0000	99
46	1.9834	1289	148	0.0000	101
47	2.0026	1286	147	0.0000	103
48	2.0197	1282	146	0.0000	106
49	2.0347	1279	145	0.0000	108
50	2.0476	1275	144	0.0000	110
51	2.0583	1272	144	0.0000	113
52	2.0669	1269	143	0.0000	115
53	2.0733	1265	142	0.0000	118
54	2.0776	1262	141	0.0000	120
55	2.0796	1258	141	0.0000	122
56	2.0795	1255	140	0.0000	125
57	2.0772	1252	139	0.0000	127
58	2.0726	1248	138	0.0000	129
59	2.0658	1245	138	0.0000	132
60	2.0568	1242	137	0.0000	134
61	2.0455	1239	136	0.0000	137
62	2.0320	1235	135	0.0000	139
63	2.0162	1232	135	0.0000	142
64	1.9981	1229	134	0.0000	144
65	1.9777	1226	133	0.0000	146
66	1.9549	1223	133	0.0000	149
67	1.9299	1220	132	0.0000	151
68	1.9025	1216	131	0.0000	154
69	1.8728	1213	131	0.0000	156
70	1.8407	1210	130	0.0000	159
71	1.8062	1207	129	0.0000	161
72	1.7693	1204	129	0.0000	164
73	1.7301	1201	128	0.0000	166
74	1.6884	1198	127	0.0000	169
75	1.6443	1195	127	0.0000	171
76	1.5978	1192	126	0.0000	174
77	1.5489	1189	126	0.0000	176
78	1.4974	1187	125	0.0000	179
79	1.4436	1184	124	0.0000	181
80	1.3872	1181	124	0.0000	184
81	1.3283	1178	123	0.0000	186
82	1.2670	1175	123	0.0000	189
83	1.2031	1172	122	0.0000	192
84	1.1367	1170	122	0.0000	194
85	1.0677	1167	121	0.0000	197
86	0.9962	1164	120	0.0000	199
87	0.9221	1161	120	0.0000	202
88	0.8455	1159	119	0.0000	204
89	0.7662	1156	119	0.0000	207
90	0.6844	1153	118	0.0000	210
91	0.5999	1151	118	0.0000	212
92	0.5128	1148	117	0.0000	215
93	0.4231	1145	116	0.0000	217
94	0.3307	1143	116	0.0000	220
95	0.2357	1140	115	0.0000	223
96	0.1380	1138	115	0.0000	225
97	0.0376	1135	114	0.0000	228
98	-0.0655	1133	114	0.0000	231
99	-0.1713	1130	113	0.0000	233
100	-0.2798	1128	113	0.0000	236

 

[imaoldfart]

Here's data zeroed at 27 yards (81'). At 81' (27 yards) you want to be printing .477" low at 10 yards (30 feet).

A	A	A	A	A
Range	Drop (inches)	Velocity	Energy	Wind drift (inches)	Time (milliseconds)
0	-0.9901	1469	192	0.0000	1
1	-0.9314	1465	191	0.0000	3
2	-0.8743	1461	190	0.0000	5
3	-0.8188	1457	189	0.0000	7
4	-0.7650	1452	187	0.0000	9
5	-0.7128	1448	186	0.0000	11
6	-0.6623	1444	185	0.0000	13
7	-0.6134	1440	184	0.0000	15
8	-0.5663	1436	183	0.0000	17
9	-0.5208	1432	182	0.0000	19
10	-0.4770	1427	181	0.0000	21
11	-0.4349	1423	180	0.0000	24
12	-0.3946	1419	179	0.0000	26
13	-0.3559	1415	178	0.0000	28
14	-0.3190	1411	177	0.0000	30
15	-0.2839	1407	176	0.0000	32
16	-0.2505	1403	175	0.0000	34
17	-0.2188	1399	174	0.0000	36
18	-0.1890	1395	173	0.0000	38
19	-0.1609	1391	172	0.0000	41
20	-0.1346	1387	171	0.0000	43
21	-0.1101	1383	170	0.0000	45
22	-0.0875	1379	169	0.0000	47
23	-0.0667	1375	168	0.0000	49
24	-0.0477	1371	167	0.0000	51
25	-0.0305	1367	166	0.0000	54
26	-0.0153	1363	165	0.0000	56
27	-0.0018	1360	164	0.0000	58
28	0.0097	1356	163	0.0000	60
29	0.0193	1352	162	0.0000	62
30	0.0271	1348	161	0.0000	65
31	0.0329	1344	160	0.0000	67
32	0.0368	1341	160	0.0000	69
33	0.0387	1337	159	0.0000	71
34	0.0388	1333	158	0.0000	74
35	0.0368	1329	157	0.0000	76
36	0.0329	1326	156	0.0000	78
37	0.0270	1322	155	0.0000	80
38	0.0192	1318	154	0.0000	83
39	0.0093	1315	154	0.0000	85
40	-0.0026	1311	153	0.0000	87
41	-0.0165	1307	152	0.0000	90
42	-0.0324	1304	151	0.0000	92
43	-0.0504	1300	150	0.0000	94
44	-0.0705	1297	149	0.0000	96
45	-0.0926	1293	148	0.0000	99
46	-0.1168	1289	148	0.0000	101
47	-0.1431	1286	147	0.0000	103
48	-0.1714	1282	146	0.0000	106
49	-0.2019	1279	145	0.0000	108
50	-0.2346	1275	144	0.0000	110
51	-0.2693	1272	144	0.0000	113
52	-0.3062	1269	143	0.0000	115
53	-0.3453	1265	142	0.0000	118
54	-0.3865	1262	141	0.0000	120
55	-0.4300	1258	141	0.0000	122
56	-0.4756	1255	140	0.0000	125
57	-0.5234	1252	139	0.0000	127
58	-0.5734	1248	138	0.0000	129
59	-0.6257	1245	138	0.0000	132
60	-0.6802	1242	137	0.0000	134
61	-0.7370	1239	136	0.0000	137
62	-0.7960	1235	135	0.0000	139
63	-0.8574	1232	135	0.0000	142
64	-0.9210	1229	134	0.0000	144
65	-0.9869	1226	133	0.0000	146
66	-1.0551	1223	133	0.0000	149
67	-1.1256	1220	132	0.0000	151
68	-1.1985	1216	131	0.0000	154
69	-1.2737	1213	131	0.0000	156
70	-1.3513	1210	130	0.0000	159
71	-1.4313	1207	129	0.0000	161
72	-1.5136	1204	129	0.0000	164
73	-1.5984	1201	128	0.0000	166
74	-1.6855	1198	127	0.0000	169
75	-1.7751	1195	127	0.0000	171
76	-1.8671	1192	126	0.0000	174
77	-1.9616	1189	126	0.0000	176
78	-2.0585	1187	125	0.0000	179
79	-2.1578	1184	124	0.0000	181
80	-2.2597	1181	124	0.0000	184
81	-2.3641	1178	123	0.0000	186
82	-2.4709	1175	123	0.0000	189
83	-2.5803	1172	122	0.0000	192
84	-2.6922	1170	122	0.0000	194
85	-2.8067	1167	121	0.0000	197
86	-2.9237	1164	120	0.0000	199
87	-3.0432	1161	120	0.0000	202
88	-3.1654	1159	119	0.0000	204
89	-3.2901	1156	119	0.0000	207
90	-3.4174	1153	118	0.0000	210
91	-3.5474	1151	118	0.0000	212
92	-3.6800	1148	117	0.0000	215
93	-3.8152	1145	116	0.0000	217
94	-3.9530	1143	116	0.0000	220
95	-4.0936	1140	115	0.0000	223
96	-4.2368	1138	115	0.0000	225
97	-4.3826	1135	114	0.0000	228
98	-4.5312	1133	114	0.0000	231
99	-4.6825	1130	113	0.0000	233
100	-4.8365	1128	113	0.0000	236

 

[Igrlik]

Nice, but:

• your sights are not 1" above barrel axis
• muzzle velocity is not 1469´

So you must add some new coefficients into calculator...
"You'd need to chrono your ammo to get a better calculation. "

 

[imaoldfart]

No sheet. Already mentioned the need to chrono his ammo. And yes, his sites are 1" above the bore, as he's mounted a red dot to his P22.....more than likely the only one on planet earth. A link to his highly customized P22 I'm determined...mini red dot install on a P22.

 

[1917-1911M]

Thanks Oldfart and Igrlik. Here is a somewhat useful site. No ballistic curves but it does have velocity out of different barrel lengths and with several popular makes of ammo. CCI, Rem, etc. A P22 is actually used as one pistol but it is the 3.4" barrel model. The 5" pistol is a Kimber 1911 style if I remember correctly. Looks like 5" velocities are in the 1,000 to 1,100 fps unless you shoot Stingers, Yellow Jackets, Velocitors, etc. 1917

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .22 Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

 

[1917-1911M]

This is all the detail I get on that site. Bore -1", zero at 27 yds.....CCI sub sonic at 1050 fps and it looks like about 1/2" low zero at 10 yds to be on track at 27 yds.

 

[imaoldfart]

Go back and do that again, and scroll down to see the table.....

I just ran it again....here's the data I used.

And, here's the graph and table. At 10 yards (30 feet) your low (-.3499). The bullet reached a peak height of +.0112 @ 25 yards and is now starting to descend. At 27 yards (81 feet) your at +.0031 (we'll call that 'Zero'). At 100 yards your down 10.56 inches. At 150 yards you'll hit em' in the balls....they'll just think its a flea bite.

Range	Drop (inches)	Velocity	Energy	Wind drift (inches)	Time (milliseconds)
A	A	A	A	A
0	-0.9868	1080	104	0.0000	1
1	-0.9094	1077	103	0.0000	4
2	-0.8350	1074	102	0.0000	7
3	-0.7637	1071	102	0.0000	9
4	-0.6953	1068	101	0.0000	12
5	-0.6300	1065	101	0.0000	15
6	-0.5678	1062	100	0.0000	18
7	-0.5087	1060	100	0.0000	21
8	-0.4526	1057	99	0.0000	23
9	-0.3997	1054	99	0.0000	26
10	-0.3499	1052	98	0.0000	29
11	-0.3032	1049	98	0.0000	32
12	-0.2597	1046	97	0.0000	35
13	-0.2194	1044	97	0.0000	38
14	-0.1822	1041	96	0.0000	41
15	-0.1483	1039	96	0.0000	43
16	-0.1176	1036	95	0.0000	46
17	-0.0901	1034	95	0.0000	49
18	-0.0659	1031	94	0.0000	52
19	-0.0450	1029	94	0.0000	55
20	-0.0273	1026	93	0.0000	58
21	-0.0129	1024	93	0.0000	61
22	-0.0019	1022	93	0.0000	64
23	0.0058	1019	92	0.0000	67
24	0.0102	1017	92	0.0000	70
25	0.0112	1015	91	0.0000	73
26	0.0089	1012	91	0.0000	76
27	0.0031	1010	91	0.0000	79
28	-0.0060	1008	90	0.0000	82
29	-0.0186	1006	90	0.0000	85
30	-0.0346	1004	90	0.0000	88
31	-0.0541	1001	89	0.0000	91
32	-0.0771	999	89	0.0000	94
33	-0.1035	997	88	0.0000	97
34	-0.1334	995	88	0.0000	100
35	-0.1668	993	88	0.0000	103
36	-0.2038	991	87	0.0000	106
37	-0.2443	989	87	0.0000	109
38	-0.2883	987	87	0.0000	112
39	-0.3359	985	86	0.0000	115
40	-0.3871	983	86	0.0000	118
41	-0.4419	981	85	0.0000	121
42	-0.5003	979	85	0.0000	124
43	-0.5624	977	85	0.0000	127
44	-0.6281	975	84	0.0000	130
45	-0.6974	973	84	0.0000	133
46	-0.7704	971	84	0.0000	136
47	-0.8471	969	83	0.0000	139
48	-0.9275	967	83	0.0000	142
49	-1.0116	965	83	0.0000	145
50	-1.0995	964	83	0.0000	149
51	-1.1911	962	82	0.0000	152
52	-1.2864	960	82	0.0000	155
53	-1.3855	958	82	0.0000	158
54	-1.4884	956	81	0.0000	161
55	-1.5952	955	81	0.0000	164
56	-1.7057	953	81	0.0000	167
57	-1.8200	951	80	0.0000	171
58	-1.9382	949	80	0.0000	174
59	-2.0603	948	80	0.0000	177
60	-2.1862	946	79	0.0000	180
61	-2.3160	944	79	0.0000	183
62	-2.4497	942	79	0.0000	186
63	-2.5874	941	79	0.0000	190
64	-2.7289	939	78	0.0000	193
65	-2.8744	937	78	0.0000	196
66	-3.0239	936	78	0.0000	199
67	-3.1773	934	77	0.0000	202
68	-3.3347	932	77	0.0000	206
69	-3.4961	931	77	0.0000	209
70	-3.6615	929	77	0.0000	212
71	-3.8310	927	76	0.0000	215
72	-4.0045	926	76	0.0000	219
73	-4.1820	924	76	0.0000	222
74	-4.3636	923	76	0.0000	225
75	-4.5493	921	75	0.0000	228
76	-4.7391	920	75	0.0000	232
77	-4.9331	918	75	0.0000	235
78	-5.1311	916	75	0.0000	238
79	-5.3333	915	74	0.0000	241
80	-5.5396	913	74	0.0000	245
81	-5.7501	912	74	0.0000	248
82	-5.9648	910	74	0.0000	251
83	-6.1836	909	73	0.0000	255
84	-6.4067	907	73	0.0000	258
85	-6.6340	906	73	0.0000	261
86	-6.8656	904	73	0.0000	264
87	-7.1014	903	72	0.0000	268
88	-7.3414	901	72	0.0000	271
89	-7.5858	900	72	0.0000	274
90	-7.8344	898	72	0.0000	278
91	-8.0874	897	71	0.0000	281
92	-8.3446	895	71	0.0000	284
93	-8.6062	894	71	0.0000	288
94	-8.8722	893	71	0.0000	291
95	-9.1425	891	70	0.0000	295
96	-9.4172	890	70	0.0000	298
97	-9.6963	888	70	0.0000	301
98	-9.9798	887	70	0.0000	305
99	-10.2677	885	70	0.0000	308
100	-10.5600	884	69	0.0000	311

 

[1917-1911M]

OK, this is what I'm looking for. This should be plenty close for off hand shooting at 25 meters. Many thank oldfart. 1917

 

[imaoldfart]

My pleasure.

 

[Crete]

I zero my P22 at 12.5 yards distance and it is dead-on at 25 yards with a six o'clock hold.
Open sights are best sighted in at 12.5 yards and scopes at 25 yards, before doing fine adjustments for longer distance targets.

 

[Bryancorsair]

I want to zero my 5" P22 for 82' ( 25 meters ) but I want to do this from a much shorter distance. The reason is that I can't really see that well at 82' and find it much harder to hold the dot precisely dead center on a tiny aimpoint even from a rest. At 21' or 30', etc., there is no such issue. I can dim the 4 moa dot, put it precisely on a 1/8" dia dot. The center of my red dot is 1" above the bore axis. I realize there is going to be some variance between this ammo and that ammo but is there a formulae or set of rules for zeroing for 25 meters with such a set up. Fox example....point of impact needs to be 1/2" below point of aim at 27' since the round is bing lobbed upwards and where it crosses the dot going up coincides with where it recrosses on the way down at 82'. And I won't be able to use a three line long equation with alien symbols in it. Thanks in advance. 1917

Theoretically, yes. You could run a ballistic calculation for your projectile at your muzzle velocity, using a 25 yard zero (Sites-VistaFederal-Site). Then simply look at the offset at 7 yards and make sure your impacts at 7 yards are 0.5” higher than POA.

This is where I think the problem with theory manifests. Is a 0.5” offset in POI caused by you, the ammunition, or the optic zero? Given this, I don’t see how you could be assured that you have achieved a 25 yard zero without confirming such at 25 yards. At that distance, the ammunition, and you, are likely to induce a spread that you will allow you to easily tell whether you are zeroed.

 

[Crete]

Theoretically, yes. You could run a ballistic calculation for your projectile at your muzzle velocity, using a 25 yard zero (Sites-VistaFederal-Site). Then simply look at the offset at 7 yards and make sure your impacts at 7 yards are 0.5” higher than POA.

This is where I think the problem with theory manifests. Is a 0.5” offset in POI caused by you, the ammunition, or the optic zero? Given this, I don’t see how you could be assured that you have achieved a 25 yard zero without confirming such at 25 yards. At that distance, the ammunition, and you, are likely to induce a spread that you will allow you to easily tell whether you are zeroed.

The shooter's hand and eyes matter more than any armchair ballistics software calculating approximate variants.

 

[1917-1911M]

All I'm trying to do is prepare my pistol for the next farm visit. I can't shoot at 25 meters here in the hood....even suppressed. Well, I guess I could since I live on 3.5 acres but prefer not to. I can easily shoot 10 yards with no one the wiser. I am unsure if I can zero any better at 82' even from a rest. The dot covers a lot of area at that distance...even when turned down. What I want to be is in the ballpark for my next trip to the farm....next weekend and not have to spend a lot of time zeroing. I realize that different ammo is going to print differently....but not that much as I've already fired a variety of ammo from a mechanical rest at 82' and the groups are in the 1" and under range. To a certain extent better accuracy is moot to me....I'm old and shaky and won't be able to hold the pistol any steadier to begin with....did I mention I start the day with four or five cups of coffee. One other thing I would like to know is......how is the suppressor affecting my groups. The thing gets the pistol so dirty that I'm thinking of removing it except for times when I actually might need it suppressed. I wear ear cups even with it on. But this dirt is incredible from the blowback. I'm swapping my new Shield red dot onto the target pistol while the old one goes back to England for repair/replacement and I want to zero here and hit the farm running. I have so much to do.....any set up I can do here will be of benefit while there. What I really want to do is show Crete I can shoot better than he can......I've been known to move up close or use a sharp pencil to make good groups. Heck, Oldfart even caught some powder burns on one good group. 1917

 

[1917-1911M]

OK, the pistol is zeroed 0.6" below the point of aim. I'll see how that prints at 25 meters. It will be hard to tell if it is me or the zero. What I'm looking for are 1" groups....yeah right. Last time I was not even close to zero, left and low. Hope to be more on target this next trip. I'll take my bags to see if I can tell anything from a rest. Unfortunately my new red dot has a small flare to the dot. I'll send it back too for the plastic lens to be replaced with glass. The plastic just isn't tough enough. I'm also going to remove the suppressor to keep the pistol cleaner....not sure what effect that might have on my zero. Shooting is fun...so, I will find out. 1917

 

[Crete]

When in the farm experiment w/a 12.5-yards Point Of Aim (POA) and then a 10-yard POA and write down the results of Point of Impact when shooting POA at 25m/yards.

With open sights, the #2 front element works just fine when hits are made at the POA @ the 12.5-yards distance using Standard Vel ammo.
The #3 and #4 are for closer distances than 25m/yards.

 

[1917-1911M]

OK, leaving in the morning. I have to bring a Bobcat back as I cracked an arm on it....a very large arm. Will have to get it welded. I can tear up about anything it seems.....on the other hand..it is a 2001 model and has done a lot of work. Driving the F450 turbo diesel for four hours and dragging a trailer won't be fun. And that is just one way.....but, the P22 is zeroed and ready to go. I took the suppressor off.

Will do Crete. 1917