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Question about Super Cal 9X18

22K views 19 replies 11 participants last post by  GeoNole94 
#1 ·
I know where a PP Super Cal 9X18 is for sale in Calif. What exact caliber in terms I can understand is it? I dont know if the gun is "chambered" to fit another caliber, but this is what it says on the left slide of the gun.
"Super Cal 9X18" . also says made in W. Germany
Please any help or advice.
Seller says Serial # 12825 and may have been imported in the ealy 70's.
Since I live in Kalif, dont know if I can get it but only through PPT and not a gunstore purchase.
 
#2 ·
9mm Ultra, or 9x18 Police, has essential the cartridge dimensions as a 9x19mm Luger round, only it is 1mm shorter and has the rim dimensions of a .380acp. The bullet weight is around that of a .380acp, around 100gr. Do not confuse 9x18Ultra with 9x18 Makarov. The two calibers are significantly different.

The PP Super is a great pistol if you like the Walther PP-series pistols. I am a big fan, personally, and I own a couple PP Supers. The ballistics of the 9mm Ultra are superior to both .380 acp and 9mm Makarov. However, 9x18mm Ultra ammo is not easy to obtain. I would not recommend it, but you can shoot .380acp ammo with PP Super. Again, I do not recommend shooting anything but the designated caliber ammo in any firearm.

I hope this helps.

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#4 ·
9mm Ultra, or 9x18 Police, has essential the cartridge dimensions as a 9x19mm Luger round, only it is 1mm shorter and has the rim dimensions of a .380acp. The bullet weight is around that of a .380acp, around 100gr. Do not confuse 9x18Ultra with 9x18 Makarov. The two calibers are significantly different.

The PP Super is a great pistol if you like the Walther PP-series pistols. I am a big fan, personally, and I own a couple PP Supers. The ballistics of the 9mm Ultra are superior to both .380 acp and 9mm Makarov. However, 9x18mm Ultra ammo is not easy to obtain. I would not recommend it, but you can shoot .380acp ammo with PP Super. Again, I do not recommend shooting anything but the designated caliber ammo in any firearm.

I hope this helps.

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This has cleared me up a bit. What I am wondering, Can I use .380acp that I would buy at a gunshow or store in the commerial box? Is 9mm Makarov different than 9mm luger? If the 9mm is different then I presume I can shoot regular .380acp without having any gunsmithing work?
If I need to alter anything I may not get it due to scarcity of the ammo(pmm Makarov). Please let me know thanx.
 
#3 ·
Doc, how does that work, to the degree that it does work? Does the round headspace on the extractor?

I've handled pistols in this caliber, but have shied away for the ammo issue.

Can the round be reloaded on 9mm or .380 dies?
Moon
 
#8 ·
I reload 9x18Ultra ammo on a Dillon Square Deal B using 9mm Luger dies and a .380acp shellplate. I either use 9x18ultra brass or .38Super Comp casings cut down to 17.97mm. Both brass types work well. I have used various types of jhp or prn 95 or 100gr bullets (.355") with Bullseye, TiteGroup or Power Pistol powder. The 9mm Ultra is a tremendously accurate round when fired from the PP-Super or Sig P230.

The 9x18Ultra headspaces on the case mouth. So a .380 bullet seats very deep in the chamber. When fired, I suspect the recoil pushes the spent casing back into the breach where rim is grabbed by the ejector. Alternatively, the bullet may stay back against the breach with rim held by extractor. In which case the bullet would be effectively headspaced by its rim. I am certain a more knowledgeable forum member could enlighten us on how it would work. :confused:

Regardless, as stated above, although people have been known to do it, it is not recommended to shoot .380acp ammo in a pistol chambered for 9x18mm Ultra.

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#11 ·
I reload 9x18Ultra ammo on a Dillon Square Deal B using 9mm Luger dies and a .380acp shellplate. I either use 9x18ultra brass or .38Super Comp casings cut down to 17.97mm. Both brass types work well. I have used various types of jhp or prn 95 or 100gr bullets (.355") with Bullseye, TiteGroup or Power Pistol powder. The 9mm Ultra is a tremendously accurate round when fired from the PP-Super or Sig P230.


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Thanks, Doc, I was assuming something like that based on your previous comments. The whole shell plate thing will make you crazy; let a .380 case creep into the 9mms; it will end up stuck in the sizing die.
If I ever run across an 9x18 at a great price, I'll have to give it some thought. Make a great range toy if nothing else.
And I'll bet a big cold beer that .380 only fires in the Ultra because the case is hanging from the extractor...this occurs more often than you might imagine, even when using proper ammo, in other guns as well.
Moon
 
#9 ·
Question for someone who doesn't know better (Still have a lot to learn about all the different types of ammo out there). Is 9x18 Ultra the same as 9x18 Super? If so I know Georgia Arms has 9x18 ultra Georgia Arms - 9X18 ULTRA AUTO and I am honestly wondering because have seen a couple PP Supers at gun shows and have caught myself drooling, but my hubby is majorly put off by the ammo requirements. :rolleyes:
 
#13 ·
9x18mm Ultra and 9x18mm Police designations both refer to the same caliber. Originally, they were nit exactly the same. Technically, the 9x18Ultra caliber was developed, but not pursued, in the 40's by Walther. The 9mm Police caliber was developed in the 1970's as a law enforcement alternative to the 9mm Kurtz, aka .380 acp. The latter caliber is what the PP Super is chambered for. Today, 9mm Police, 9mm Ultra and 9mm Super designations are used interchangeably. I found this confusing when I first started researching this caliber. It I'd a fabulous caliber however and the PP Super is a sweet pistol.

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#10 ·
I believe we're talking about the same thing: The PP Super was chambered for the 9x18 Ultra round (unless you can find one of the rare PP Supers that was chambered for the .380 ACP), so I think you're seeing the terms "Super" and "Ultra" used interchangeably on the site to which you link goes.

There's been a PP Super on consignment at my favorite local gun store for well over a year now. I keep drooling, but as it's not in .380 I have passed on it so far.
 
#12 ·
Moon,
I bet you are correct about the rim catching on the extractor but I'd still make the wager anyway. If you come across a nice, reasonably priced PP Super buy it. I have found I quite enjoy loading 9mm Ultra cartridges. You will want to consider attaching your case trimmer to a power drill, however. That's what I ended you doing. The .38 Super Comp casing is 9x21mm so each one needs to be trimmed down 3mm. That's Hell on the wrist after 20 or so. The cool thing about using .38 Super casings I'd that they are are designed for higher pressures than 9mm Ultra produces so they should last through several more reloadings.

If you are ever in Portland, look me up. We'll have to settle that eager.:beer:

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#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
Weell, I know this may be a rare gun, but............I think I am going to pass on it. I live in a small condo which was formally a 2bdrm apt and dont have much room to do stuff. I dont have a garage or store room. I also dont want to invest in money to I guess re-do cartridge casing and do my own reloads, etc. I just want to be able to pick up the correct ammo at a local gunshow now and then and then go and shoot it. I am not a gun fanataic, but, I do like the Walther's; PP,PPK's, PPKS's, and the P38/1's. They are made of metal and look sleek and look like guns; hey James Bond!
If you put all those Glocks, with different models and generations, the new S&W's, Sig's and the new Walthers together, you cannot tell them apart. They all look the same with that new plastic all over the gun.
This is why I am infatuated with the Walthers. I had a P38 about 30yrs ago and sold it, dumb me.
its hard to find them where I live. I missed out on getting a TPH, 22LR in mint condtion with box and paperwork along with another PPKS, same thing and both were stainless. Come to find out, the owner wasnt a Calif resident and the sale could not go through. My hands are tied so I must go elsewhere online and hope someone puts one up for sale. I have been able to get mine through"private party transfer" only.
Enough rambling. All said I am going to pass on this one, thanx for the advice. Gotta bite my lip and move on.
 
#15 ·
Doc', thanks for the thoro' explanation. I have a power case trimmer that would serve, but I'd hate to let the empties hit the ground for fear of losing them! One of many things I like about 9mm; I have so lousy many cases that losing a couple doesn't signify at all.

Steve, great explanation of the vices and virtues of the .32 and .380; should be a sticky somewhere for the uninitiated. Bravo!
Moon
 
#20 ·
To dispel a common myth, you can find new-production Fiocchi online more-or-less all of the time. New Old Stock GECO is commonly available, too. Sans shipping, you are looking at around $0.40-$0.42/round. Cheap? Not by bulk 9mm standards, but not ridiculous. The PP Super is incredibly robust and well built, which is one reason that used ones continue to sell in the $500-900 range, depending on condition, accessories, etc. I just bought my second in 9x18 Ultra/Police, and I would buy more at the price that I paid. YMMV ;)
 
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