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Discussion Starter #1
This is less of a "crying in my beer" post and more of a "for your information" post.

After Christmas last year I bought a Walther Q5 SF Pro. It was a toss up between the model with or without the mag well. The Pro won as I thought the mag well improved the balance and feel.

Prior to purchase, I had looked over all the SF's at the LGS as well as did some on-line research. Going to the Walther web site, the page SPECIFICALLY says that this firearm is valid for IDPA SSP division.

https://waltherarms.com/q5-match-steel-frame-pro/

That part I wasn't 100% sure as IDPA rule 8.2.1.3.D specifically excludes Add-on magazine well openings for SSP. I believe the operative there is "add on", so maybe Walther knows something I do not. I ran this by our Area Coordinator had he specifically stated this gun was not legal for SSP due to the magazine well. Ok...

I have shot with folks using this handgun at sanctioned matches, but they all shoot ESP as they've added on things like Apex trigger.

Not a big deal as I shoot either division and really have no preferences. My PPQ's are all unmodified so I either shoot SSP or ESP with the 9mm, or SSP/ESP/CDP with the 45 ACP models. I do like being flexible.

I then talked to our Area Coordinator (AC) about the weight. Again, the website says that it's legal, and the empty weight is 42.3 oz.
I called Walther and when they say "empty", that means no magazine.

Since I already got questions on one item, I'd best check this out. Our AC uses a certified scale to check all weapons at the match equipment check. I don't have a certified scale available, but our match director has a postal scale.

IDPA rule 8.2.1.E states that the weapon must weigh less than 43.00 ounces. That's SSP/ESP as well, and specifically states that it is weighed with the heaviest magazine.

My gun weighed 43.4 ounces, making it illegal for SSP and ESP, or any IDPA shooting what so ever.

Now, I'm very unhappy.

So I called Walther Customer Service. They said send the gun back, here's a shipping label, adding "we will make this right."

I sent the un-fired pistol back, along with a long note about the problem.

That was three weeks ago yesterday.

I called last week, they're all at the SHOT show this week. Ok, I can understand that, not be happy about it, but...

I called yesterday. It seems that yes, these pistols are now over weight. They have no idea why. They've been on the phone with Germany. Germany insists that they've changed nothing.

Here I sit with a gun I've owned nearly a month which is sitting in Arkansas while they figure out WTH to do.

I suggested they drop this bull stuff +2 mags and simply go with the standard ones with the +0 baseplates. That may or may not work; I suspect not.

I could also simply remove the mag well and carry on without issue, but I like the mag well, I paid for the mag well, I want the gun Walther sold me as legal to be legal.

The ball remains in Walther's court, and I'm caught in the middle.

So....
If you've bought one of these pistols, and you shoot IDPA or some other group that has a weight limit, check your gun. You may be in for a problem.

Thank you...
 

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I have practiced loading my Q5 poly so many times, that it doesn't matter whether or not I have the add-on flared magwell in place or not, my times are the same. I did cheat a little and used a file to clean up around the magwell, but nobody has noticed, so don't call attention to it.
 

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I have the non-Pro model SF and it weighs with an empty mag 42.6 oz. I never considered the magwell as I also shoot it in USPSA Production.

It sucks "they" lost control of the weight issue. Walther, being an EU entity, probably didn't have IDPA on the real radar screen. Hopefully just oversight but a costly one.:(

All stock? I say ditch the magwell (a Limited minor or IPSC thing) and all should make weight for the fishing vest game.
 

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You can't trust the numbers advertised by manufactueres. They can be off either a good or bad way. For reference, my Q5SF makes SSP IDPA weight without a magwell and 15 round mag with TF +0 baseplates. The "Pro" model probably wouldn't even fit the box with a 17 round mag. So for IDPA, just remove the magwell and shoot SSP or leave the magwell and shoot ESP. But you may have to change your baseplates or get new mags to fit the box. Mine is currently set up for CO and it makes the 45oz weight with a TF magwell and a 15 round mag with the +0 baseplates and an optic.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update

After five weeks I called Walther CS...
Now, I worked eleven years in direct customer support. I know ways go getting around problems, getting problems elevated, etc. Because I had them all pulled on me.

This was what I would call my "poop or get off the pot" phone call...

We're still waiting on Germany and yelling won't make them work faster.

This is not yelling, this is Anger 1 mode.

The gun is overweight but we have lots of people using these in IDPA competition. They give you some leeway...

In the rule book, it says 43.00 ounces. 43.01 and you're out. I've seen it happen. Why don't you just keep my pistol and send me one that will pass the weight?

Even though they're still waiting for Germany, they decided (I understand motivational phone calls) to try a PPQ poly recoil spring instead of the SF steel guide. They ran thirty rounds though it, hey, good enough...

Excuse me, this then becomes a mix-matched gun. Suppose it fails at 5000 rounds?

Well, by 5000 rounds you need to replace the spring anyway..

That's news to me. I've probably 15k through the PPQ 5" and it's fine. And there's nothing in the owners manual about "change your springs after xxx rounds.

We're shipping it back to you.

I debated refusing it with FedEx, but accepted it anyway. Tried it (for the first time) yesterday, it does work and the poly is lighter than the steel at least my scale says so.
I suspect they went with the steel guide rod to reduce muzzle flip. And the whole idea of the SF is to give you the better handle on that.

I am not happy about this at all. At all. They sold me a gun with the explicit mention of IDPA SSP legal. It is not SSP legal nor is it ESP either, as sold.

I'm going to have to get their management on the phone. I'm a very unhappy customer.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I did check the Pro with the box and +2 mags, fits fine.

Given the cost of converting my other PPQ mags to use the mag well, as much as I like it, I suspect it's coming off.
 

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The first thing I done was remove the mag well so I could use the mags from my other PPQ's .
The mag well looked out of place and unnecessary to me.
Reloading with a double stack mag and no mag well has never been a problem for me.
The only thing I changed was the red front sight to green.

I am totally happy with this gun so far and plan on using it for IDPA, USPSA & Steel Challenge this coming year.
 

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This is less of a "crying in my beer" post and more of a "for your information" post.

After Christmas last year I bought a Walther Q5 SF Pro. It was a toss up between the model with or without the mag well. The Pro won as I thought the mag well improved the balance and feel.

Prior to purchase, I had looked over all the SF's at the LGS as well as did some on-line research. Going to the Walther web site, the page SPECIFICALLY says that this firearm is valid for IDPA SSP division.

https://waltherarms.com/q5-match-steel-frame-pro/

That part I wasn't 100% sure as IDPA rule 8.2.1.3.D specifically excludes Add-on magazine well openings for SSP. I believe the operative there is "add on", so maybe Walther knows something I do not. I ran this by our Area Coordinator had he specifically stated this gun was not legal for SSP due to the magazine well. Ok...

I have shot with folks using this handgun at sanctioned matches, but they all shoot ESP as they've added on things like Apex trigger.

Not a big deal as I shoot either division and really have no preferences. My PPQ's are all unmodified so I either shoot SSP or ESP with the 9mm, or SSP/ESP/CDP with the 45 ACP models. I do like being flexible.

I then talked to our Area Coordinator (AC) about the weight. Again, the website says that it's legal, and the empty weight is 42.3 oz.
I called Walther and when they say "empty", that means no magazine.

Since I already got questions on one item, I'd best check this out. Our AC uses a certified scale to check all weapons at the match equipment check. I don't have a certified scale available, but our match director has a postal scale.

IDPA rule 8.2.1.E states that the weapon must weigh less than 43.00 ounces. That's SSP/ESP as well, and specifically states that it is weighed with the heaviest magazine.

My gun weighed 43.4 ounces, making it illegal for SSP and ESP, or any IDPA shooting what so ever.

Now, I'm very unhappy.

So I called Walther Customer Service. They said send the gun back, here's a shipping label, adding "we will make this right."

I sent the un-fired pistol back, along with a long note about the problem.

That was three weeks ago yesterday.

I called last week, they're all at the SHOT show this week. Ok, I can understand that, not be happy about it, but...

I called yesterday. It seems that yes, these pistols are now over weight. They have no idea why. They've been on the phone with Germany. Germany insists that they've changed nothing.

Here I sit with a gun I've owned nearly a month which is sitting in Arkansas while they figure out WTH to do.

I suggested they drop this bull stuff +2 mags and simply go with the standard ones with the +0 baseplates. That may or may not work; I suspect not.

I could also simply remove the mag well and carry on without issue, but I like the mag well, I paid for the mag well, I want the gun Walther sold me as legal to be legal.

The ball remains in Walther's court, and I'm caught in the middle.

So....
If you've bought one of these pistols, and you shoot IDPA or some other group that has a weight limit, check your gun. You may be in for a problem.

Thank you...
After getting your post in my e-mail notifications, I logged onto here and read the complete post.

My Q5 SF was bought with the intention of running it in USPSA Carry Optics so I never weighed it before installing the optic, which I'm not going to remove to verify your post.

However, I did just weigh it with the optic installed and a 10 round Walther mag inserted and it's LOK thin grip. It weighs 42.6 oz in that configuration. With the 15 round magazine and a TF +0 basepad (it's IDPA CO configuration) it weighs in at 43.5 oz. In it's USPSA configuration with the 15 round mags fitted with TF +6 basepads (21 rounds) it weighs 44.0 oz

My scale hasn't been checked with a certified check weight. However, my Wife's ESP DW PM-9 1911 with LOK grips, Fusion magwell and a 10 round Tripp mag weighs 42.9oz on my scale and it always gets a whistle at sanction match equipment checks when it comes in at 42.9oz. So I think my scale is good.

Picture is my SF configured for USPSA with the 21 rd mag. Same gun weighs 42.6 by just inserting the 10 rd. mag in place of the 21.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
green is good

The first thing I done was remove the mag well so I could use the mags from my other PPQ's .
The mag well looked out of place and unnecessary to me.
Reloading with a double stack mag and no mag well has never been a problem for me.
The only thing I changed was the red front sight to green.

I am totally happy with this gun so far and plan on using it for IDPA, USPSA & Steel Challenge this coming year.
I'd like to change the front sight as well. Where did you get the light pipe for it?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You have a nice gun

After getting your post in my e-mail notifications, I logged onto here and read the complete post.

My Q5 SF was bought with the intention of running it in USPSA Carry Optics so I never weighed it before installing the optic, which I'm not going to remove to verify your post.

However, I did just weigh it with the optic installed and a 10 round Walther mag inserted and it's LOK thin grip. It weighs 42.6 oz in that configuration. With the 15 round magazine and a TF +0 basepad (it's IDPA CO configuration) it weighs in at 43.5 oz. In it's USPSA configuration with the 15 round mags fitted with TF +6 basepads (21 rounds) it weighs 44.0 oz

My scale hasn't been checked with a certified check weight. However, my Wife's ESP DW PM-9 1911 with LOK grips, Fusion magwell and a 10 round Tripp mag weighs 42.9oz on my scale and it always gets a whistle at sanction match equipment checks when it comes in at 42.9oz. So I think my scale is good.

Picture is my SF configured for USPSA with the 21 rd mag. Same gun weighs 42.6 by just inserting the 10 rd. mag in place of the 21.

There are folks running Q5 SF's in IDPA; I've shot with at least one of them. They are passing the weight check by being under 43.00 oz. Why is my gun brand new, never fired, never modified Q5 failing? That's the bottom line question here.
And how many folks are going to read their ad which specifically states IDPA SSP legal and find themselves handed a Dairy Queen at a sanctioned match?

I wouldn't want to be on the Walther end of the phone when they call in Monday morning about it.
 

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What I don't know, is if there's a weight advantage for those of us who are running a different recoil spring setup. I'm sure that my LOK thin grips don't help because LOK actually says they weigh up slightly more by about a 1/2 oz than the factory ones.

If your SF has the OEM recoil assembly still in it, I could weigh up my spring and guide rod vs. the OEM and see if that gives an advantage. There are a lot of guys in competition NOT using the OEM setup and also some you saw could have been running without a magwell or not a sanctioned match?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good point sir

What I don't know, is if there's a weight advantage for those of us who are running a different recoil spring setup. I'm sure that my LOK thin grips don't help because LOK actually says they weigh up slightly more by about a 1/2 oz than the factory ones.

If your SF has the OEM recoil assembly still in it, I could weigh up my spring and guide rod vs. the OEM and see if that gives an advantage. There are a lot of guys in competition NOT using the OEM setup and also some you saw could have been running without a magwell or not a sanctioned match?
You bring up an excellent point.

I shot Michigan State IDPA with another shooter who uses the SF Pro with mag well. In fact, the conversation we had after the match was a major factor in me making this purchase.
He pointed me to the Sprinco spring drops ins for the trigger as well as the recoil springs. I sub-sequentially purchased the trigger springs for both my PPQ's and found them to be worth the money.
I have recently ordered a set of the trigger springs for the SF and threw in their recoil spring assembly for the PPQ. The plan is to look it over, including weighing it, and see how it goes with the PPQ. Then decide whether to go that direction with the SF.

And while we're on the subject, what ammunition do you use? In the PPQ's I load my own but in sanctioned matches I use Remington 115gr RN factory. They've good accuracy and make PF.
 

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Walther's recoil assembly I'm sure isn't worth the $$ they charge.

I'm using a ZR guiderod and a Wilson Combat 13# flatwire 5" 1911 spring. It runs my 130PF handloads perfectly. (per imaoldfart on this forum) Some have had good luck using a 15# flatwire.

147gr DG FP over 3.4gr. of VV N320 @ 1.148" And I use those in sanctioned matches as well as practice.

On second read, t looks like you bought the Sprinco recoil setup, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Sprinco

Walther's recoil assembly I'm sure isn't worth the $$ they charge.

I'm using a ZR guiderod and a Wilson Combat 13# flatwire 5" 1911 spring. It runs my 130PF handloads perfectly. (per imaoldfart on this forum) Some have had good luck using a 15# flatwire.

147gr DG FP over 3.4gr. of VV N320 @ 1.148" And I use those in sanctioned matches as well as practice.

On second read, t looks like you bought the Sprinco recoil setup, correct?
Trigger springs for the SF. Recoil setup for the 5" PPQ.

The trigger springs, like when I put them in both PPQ's decreased the group size and I was very pleased. The big diff when them is you cannot start trigger movement until the safety lever is fully depressed.
I tried the Sprinco recoil spring thingee and the jury is still out of that one. I thought it added more whip but I have to do more shooting with and without it.

I have a brother who's big on VV powder. He's single and doesn't have a mortgage or car payment. I tried the stuff and it's good, but not so much as to justify the 50% higher price.
 

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FWIW,I had a bud weigh up his Q5SF yesterday with irons. 42.1oz with no magwell and a 15 round mag. So legal for SSP. You've got 2.9 oz leeway to install an optic and magwell and make CO division. So they only real ***** you have is that you need to find a plastic magwell if you want a magwell to shoot ESP and stay under 43 oz. My TF alu magwell weighs 1.2oz. But there is no REQUIREMENT to have a magwell if you shoot ESP. ESP is designed for modified guns or SA that don't fit SSP.

As to VV powders, your lack of knowledge is apparent. VV may be more expensive PER POUND, than other 9mm powders, but it also uses less grains than many to make a given velocity, thus making the cost per round very competitive. My 130-135 PF handloads run about 10.5 cents with a hi-tec coated DG 147gr FP. Low flash, low smoke, low recoil and clean.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
FWIW,I had a bud weigh up his Q5SF yesterday with irons. 42.1oz with no magwell and a 15 round mag. So legal for SSP. You've got 2.9 oz leeway to install an optic and magwell and make CO division. So they only real ***** you have is that you need to find a plastic magwell if you want a magwell to shoot ESP and stay under 43 oz. My TF alu magwell weighs 1.2oz. But there is no REQUIREMENT to have a magwell if you shoot ESP. ESP is designed for modified guns or SA that don't fit SSP.

As to VV powders, your lack of knowledge is apparent. VV may be more expensive PER POUND, than other 9mm powders, but it also uses less grains than many to make a given velocity, thus making the cost per round very competitive. My 130-135 PF handloads run about 10.5 cents with a hi-tec coated DG 147gr FP. Low flash, low smoke, low recoil and clean.
Dropping the mag well drops the need for the extended mag butt plate, so making weight in that configuration does not surprise me. If I had a better scale I'd weigh mine with and without the stock steel recoil spring to see if that would work. I like the mag well as it puts pressure on the bottom of my hand and feel that it gives me a better grip.

While I do respect your opinion...and don't want this to turn into a loading argument..
As for VV powder, looking at their loading data, starting load with N340 is 5.0 gr for a Berry's 115 gr bullet which will not make PF. I'm shooting 5.0gr Power Pistol with that bullet making PF...Which is a low flash, low smoke, low recoil, clean and very accurate load in my PPQ.
While your load with a 147gr will certainly require less powder to make PF, I'm not seeing that with the 115gr bullets which I am shooting.
There may be other VV powders which get the job done, I'm very happy with Power Pistol and the bullets I am using. And does anything else really matter?
 
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