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There is a bunch of L102A1's available as a lot; 11 for $45,000. I think that is a bit high as a lot. If an investor was to buy the lot, he would expect to make a profit selling them individually, and I would expect individual pricing to be somewhere between $3200 - $3500, based on a recent pricing and sale. To make a fair profit, the lot might be worth $27,000-$30,000. What do you all think?
While I understand your suggested analysis based on the prices of some individual specimens, there are a couple of material factors in play here. First, unlike standard P5Cs, so few of these units ever come to market that it is very tough to establish any sort of norm or blue book value on them. There simply aren't enough public transaction records available. Second, this is an unparalleled opportunity for a discerning collector to immediately realize a grouping that literally may never be available again anywhere. I have worked for more than 10 years acquiring this collection, and I can assure you my hard cost in them is more than $30,000. According to Earl Sheehan, there were less than 100 total L102A1 units imported into the US. Where else could one instantly obtain more than 10% of the total market of such an extremely rare commodity - including 2 consecutive serial pairs? Given those factors, I think my price is quite fair, but of course, that's up to the market. I just wanted to offer them to the intimate Walther community before going to the open markets such as Gunbroker or Rock Island Auctions.
 
Collector vs Investor is a big difference. For an investor the price is way to high (IMO). Typically an investor will look to pay half retail. Finding the collector willing to pay retail++ to buy the lot is going to be problematic also (IMO). Very few collectors want or need so many examples of the same pistol and those that might will surely expect a better price. Best bet would be DUA and I notice not even he is jumping on the deal ;)
 
Collector vs Investor is a big difference. For an investor the price is way to high (IMO). Typically an investor will look to pay half retail. Finding the collector willing to pay retail++ to buy the lot is going to be problematic also (IMO). Very few collectors want or need so many examples of the same pistol and those that might will surely expect a better price. Best bet would be DUA and I notice not even he is jumping on the deal ;)
I agree that it would most likely need to be a 'collector'. And yes, it's going to need to be just the right person. I still firmly believe the rarity of this particular piece justifies the price. But of course, that will also be up to any potential buyer. We'll see.
 
Collector vs Investor is a big difference. For an investor the price is way to high (IMO). Typically an investor will look to pay half retail. Finding the collector willing to pay retail++ to buy the lot is going to be problematic also (IMO). Very few collectors want or need so many examples of the same pistol and those that might will surely expect a better price. Best bet would be DUA and I notice not even he is jumping on the deal ;)

I have other firearms to collect in that price range.


In fact, I just grabbed a spotless numbers matching JV Martz 1900 American Eagle DWM Luger in 7.65 Para (30 Luger) this AM, in the $3k price range. Serial # puts its production just after the Luger US Trials guns (these have sold for up to $1 million, now trade ownership for ~ $.5 million).


Crazy condition for a 120 year old firearm.


As is well know, I'm not a big fan of the P5 Compact looks, and parkered guns in the 4.5k price range have to be rarer then Walthers from the '90s for me.


I dropped out of a GB P5C NIB auction last night at ~$1600.00 Was bidding it just to round out my collection.


Drop another NIB P5Lang in front of me at $5k, I'm there!
 
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I recently bought an unfired L102A1 for $3200 from a member of this site less than a year ago. I find it hard to justify an AVERAGE of $4500 per gun, and the necessity to buy 11, to assume ownership of similar guns. I'm sorry, but a few consecutives doesn't drive the value of the average unfired L102 up $1300 over what I have seen to be "market price". The fact of the matter is that you may have simply overpaid along the way to acquire this collection. You may find that one guy in a million that wants the set as-is, or you may have to hang on to the guns until the market is ready for a $4500 L102A1, or sell them individually for what people will pay for them.
 
I recently bought an unfired L102A1 for $3200 from a member of this site less than a year ago. I find it hard to justify an AVERAGE of $4500 per gun, and the necessity to buy 11, to assume ownership of similar guns. I'm sorry, but a few consecutives doesn't drive the value of the average unfired L102 up $1300 over what I have seen to be "market price". The fact of the matter is that you may have simply overpaid along the way to acquire this collection. You may find that one guy in a million that wants the set as-is, or you may have to hang on to the guns until the market is ready for a $4500 L102A1, or sell them individually for what people will pay for them.
Congrats on your purchase - that's a good find. But there is absolutely no measurable "market price" on a gun of which less than 100 specimens exist. How many have you seen on the "market" in the last 2 years? Name any other firearm produced in such low numbers that can be purchased for less? The P5C and its variations have historically been undervalued, but have risen materially in the last 5 years. I bought and sold a dozen standard P5Cs in the early-mid 2000s - all ranging from $600-$1200. Now, you'll be lucky to get a NIB P5C for under $2K. The L102A1s should be at least a $5K gun, and someday, they will be. Of course, this group will take just the right collector, who understands the incredible rarity of such a find. So if you don't like the price - no problem. But folks please, at least do your basic math correctly. I am NOT asking $4500 ea. $45,000/11 = $4090.91.
 
Sorry about that math, was in the midst of running out to my FFL and the post office, (to get the wheels turning on the Martz Luger deal that closed yesterday AM).


Hope I didn't make it sound like the price was out of line, there are a few hardcore collectors that will see that price as acceptable. Will just take some time.


If I had the collection, it would be split up into 9 auctions (the 7 individuals, and 2 pairs), spread out over approx 2 years (as to avoid diminished value due to market "flooding"). The first auction would be a .01 min bid w/o reserve, this would gage current market value, sells too low, list the other 10 as a "lot only" with reserve.


Also, those willing to pay $45,000.00 for 11 handguns are HEAVY hitters, and will most likely be shopping the international market, so the "only 100" should include "in the US".
 
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Sorry about that math, was in the midst of running out to my FFL and the post office, (to get the wheels turning on the Martz Luger deal that closed yesterday AM).

Hope I didn't make it sound like the price was out of line, there are a few hardcore collectors that will see that price as acceptable. Will just take some time.

If I had the collection, it would be split up into 9 auctions (the 7 individuals, and 2 pairs), spread out over approx 2 years (as to avoid diminished value due to market "flooding"). The first auction would be a .01 min bid w/o reserve, this would gage current market value, sells too low, list the other 10 as a "lot only" with reserve.

Also, those willing to pay $45,000.00 for 11 handguns are HEAVY hitters, and will most likely be shopping the international market, so the "only 100" should include "in the US".
No worries - I appreciate the clarification and the suggestions. Yes, breaking them up and selling individually (or in consec pairs) is certainly an option. And maybe I'll need to do that. That would just be an exhaustively time-consuming process that I'd rather avoid. And I understand your point about the 100 in the 'US'. However, in my extensive research on these guns, of the 3000 total that were produced, approx 2800 went to the British MoD and were later decommissioned and destroyed. Other than Tanfolio's, I am not aware of any material collection of these outside of the US. Not saying there aren't any, but with significant firearm ownership restrictions in much of the rest of the world, I would think it highly unlikely that another large quantity exists elsewhere.
 
No worries - I appreciate the clarification and the suggestions. Yes, breaking them up and selling individually (or in consec pairs) is certainly an option. And maybe I'll need to do that. That would just be an exhaustively time-consuming process that I'd rather avoid. And I understand your point about the 100 in the 'US'. However, in my extensive research on these guns, of the 3000 total that were produced, approx 2800 went to the British MoD and were later decommissioned and destroyed. Other than Tanfolio's, I am not aware of any material collection of these outside of the US. Not saying there aren't any, but with significant firearm ownership restrictions in much of the rest of the world, I would think it highly unlikely that another large quantity exists elsewhere.
Had no idea the British MoD destroyed their examples. That would leave ~200 total examples remaining worldwide.

I would think you and Tanfolio are holding the two largest collections in the world.

Unreal how ~50% of the P5s (all models) produced have been destroyed, the Netherlands melted down over 50,000 of the ~105,000 3.5" barrel P5s. There was no need for that, I would have GLADLY given them my address and paid shipping fees.
 
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When trying to make a profit reselling guns purchased retail from Earl you need to expect an exhaustively time consuming process. As DUA said the best way is to take a couple of years to do it.
Thanks for the advice, but I'll give the group sale a while. I'm not in a tremendous hurry. I think the price for this collection is very fair. The last single unit I saw on GB was more than 2 years ago and it went for just over $4300. Standard commercial P5Cs are now regularly going for more than $2K. IMO, these absolutely are (will be) $5K guns. Look at what prices have done on other decidedly less-rare specimens like P38Ks, PP Super 380s, not to mention HKs like the entire P7 family.
 
There's another NIB Cat 1062 P5 on the market.....

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/845367385

Not a 9Para/7.65Para twin barrel package, just the 7.65Para (30 Luger).

The 93 grain/1200 fps 30 Luger ammo makes for a softer/flatter shooting P5. I own a GB purchased 7.65 Para P5 barrel that gets swapped onto my used DeutscheBank P5 w/stock 9mm Para recoil springs, cycles great. This keeps my NIB P5 "safe queen" Cat 1062 twin barrel package from being used.
 
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Importer's Marks

The federal law applies only to licensed importers and manufacturers, and does not require the retention of ANY markings (except the serial number) by a dealer or an end user.

M
I imported a Sig P-210-4 from Switzerland more then a few years ago. The importer I used, MMBI in Maryland gets the award for best "Importer markings". Engraved on the mag well these marks are the BATFE legal minimum size and depth required by law!

 
I imported a Sig P-210-4 from Switzerland more then a few years ago. The importer I used, MMBI in Maryland gets the award for best "Importer markings". Engraved on the mag well these marks are the BATFE legal minimum size and depth required by law!
Simpson Ltd. started using a laser engraved mark like that in the same place a couple of years ago. It is nice to see importers not defacing fine pistols like your P210 with a poorly done billboard.
 
Simpson Ltd. started using a laser engraved mark like that in the same place a couple of years ago. It is nice to see importers not defacing fine pistols like your P210 with a poorly done billboard.

I chose Simpson when I imported a few guns from Germany in '18/'19, just based on the discreet marking.


Glad I chose them, Nica Ponce was awesome in helping me thru the process for the first time.
 
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I imported a Sig P-210-4 from Switzerland more then a few years ago. The importer I used, MMBI in Maryland gets the award for best "Importer markings". Engraved on the mag well these marks are the BATFE legal minimum size and depth required by law!

The caliber is already on the barrel and therefore not necessary on the frame.
 
Looking at Gun Broker, its pretty staggering. Average starting point for bids is around $1200 for a police P5. Commercial models seem to run about 50% higher on the rare occasions they show up. Some of the rare compact variations have asking prices of $9500+. Getting that price might be another matter.

I got mine about 10 years ago and I think I paid around $300-$350. And that price included 2 mags and what must be the worst holster ever designed by man. Have to figure the German State Police didn't get into many gunfights as it would take 10-15 minutes to clear leather with that thing.
 
The caliber is already on the barrel and therefore not necessary on the frame.

I've seen some importers doing things like engraving info that is redundant, and therefore unnecessary. The laser engraver operator should be reviewing the firearm markings, and editing the CNC part program to ONLY include required markings.


IIRC, there were pics of a German import posted on this forum last year, the "Country of Manufacture" data was not on the gun, or included in the import markings. Importers need to get this right, or deal with added scrutiny from the BATFE. Never a good thing!
 
Hey everybody. I've been fairly absent, but not completely dead yet. I've just started browsing gunbroker again and I'm seeing a few P5's for far less than $1k, and not even selling.

This makes me think there is more to a P5 than just "being a P5." If I wanted to try to get a reasonable P5 for a reasonable price, what should I be looking to pay, and how do I know what to look for? (e.g. how do I not spend 2x for a piece of junk, had I known better?)

As far as I can tell, looking at this reference:

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p5/21101-walther-p5-variations-discussed.html

I am interested in one of the latter revisions (7 or later) where the little trigger stop pin is adjustable (on the frame not the trigger itself). Beyond that I don't really know "what to care about." I'm not looking for a safe-queen, more of just a "fun at the range" type stuff, but it would also double as my carry should I ever start carrying (already have a conceal carry license, but don't yet own a pistol).

Here is an example that would seem to fit the bill, but why is no one biting at $650?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/863893773

thanks,
..dane
 
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