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First off, this is not my gun, it belongs to the LGS my wife works at, and while it will eventually go on Gun Broker, this is not a value question. I am going to go photograph this gun sometime this weekend. I have read up on the history a little bit, but I can't hardly find any pictures of Allemagne guns. So, I'm going to photograph it for my Instagram. I know there are probably some areas specifically you should photograph. What are they? I will basically have unfettered access to do everything but shoot it, so what would you like to see inside? I will probably do a video for my YouTube channel, forgotten weapons style.

It's a 1936 PPK, Serial number in the 881XXX range, with no K. Crown N proof marks. Zella-Mehlis (Thür.) slide. 85-90% finish, maybe higher. One mag, no holster. I would be happy to answer any questions about it's physical condition. I have no idea about it's history. I believe the LGS acquired it from a police department.

Now, I just need some tips on what to photograph for posterity. If some would like, I can post the link to the auction when it goes up. If it's not allowed, I won't mention it again. Again, it's not mine, and I am not making any money from this. I just want to do my due diligence. If anybody has any information to add, I would love to hear about it. Thanks!!

Josh
 

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You do realize that "Allemagne" is just French for "Germany", right?
I think you're missing the point of the post.

I would be trying awfully hard to buy that one if it came into the shop where I work.
They are dead set on it going to auction. They're estimating $2-3k. Believe me, I tried. I think they may be a little optimistic, but I've been wrong before.
 

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You do realize that "Allemagne" is just French for "Germany", right?
I think you're missing the point of the post.
If anybody has any information to add, I would love to hear about it. Thanks.
You're welcome!
Instead of presenting what you said as fact, you instead insinuated that I overlooked something obvious

Allemagne is French for Deutschland. That’s a statement of fact. And then there was whatever smart remark you had. 🏼
 

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Interesting that you are asking for help and yet when someone points out something you get upset.

You might consider going asking Legacy what photos they use for presentation...you asked us for a favor after all, not the other way around.

Generally we are a friendly group of people and I'd imagine there will be folks along to help but you might remember that you are asking our advice...

We WILL opine on all areas of your post.
 
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"...with no K. Crown N proof marks."
This statement is a bit confusing. I see such proof marks both on the slide and the barrel.
Or do you mean, that this proof mark is missing on the frame? That would be pretty strange, because it was (and still is till nowadays) mandatory, that proof marks must be stamped on all three main parts of a pistol, i.e. on the frame, the slide and the barrel.
Perhaps the frame is a replaced one?
On your two pictures isn't to be seen, if there's the identical serial number on the slide and the barrel as on the frame. Is there on all three parts the same serial number?
 

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He may mean there are no import marks...

As the fellow is rather rude I didn't feel the need to follow up. You GMork are the better and more evolved man than I... :).
 
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Or do you mean, that this proof mark is missing on the frame? That would be pretty strange, because it was (and still is till nowadays) mandatory, that proof marks must be stamped on all three main parts of a pistol, i.e. on the frame, the slide and the barrel.
We can see two of the three proof marks – the one on the slide and the one on the frame. I suppose that it's even possible to find the proof mark on the barrel although these are usually quite weak.
 

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That’s a very nice condition ZM PPK and I’m sure it will go for good money at auction.
This one must have been sold in France before the war as a commercial gun.
 

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Now, I just need some tips on what to photograph for posterity. If some would like, I can post the link to the auction when it goes up. If it's not allowed, I won't mention it again. Again, it's not mine, and I am not making any money from this. I just want to do my due diligence. If anybody has any information to add, I would love to hear about it. Thanks!!

Josh
Look at some good photos of guns on line. Take a careful look at the background and lighting. I would clean the already pretty clean pistol, and that means brush out the indentations carefully. Very lightly oil and wipe it down to remove all fingerprints and lint. You do not want a cluttered background. You want simple, one color. Black, white, any color that compliments the gun/grips.

The way the light hits the metal makes a huge difference in how the photo comes out. Lighting in one directions can make the blueing look weak and show all minor scratches. Another shot with the light from a different view can yield a deep blue finish with few scratches showing.

You have to decide how to present it. Google gun photos and take a careful look at what works, what doesn't. Some folks build a light box for even distribution of light so that there are no sharp shadows. I'd shoot both sides, cocked and safety lever set to fire and hammer down, safety set to safe. Quarter angles can be great too. Use your imagination. Digital film is cheap so shoot a lot of pictures and at different f stops and light settings. A flash usually doesn't add much. Just make sure the pistol is well lit and in sharp focus and spotless. L, R, top, rear, muzzle end. We all know what they look like under the grips and under the hood. But it doesn't hurt to add some photos with the slide locked back. Good luck with your project. 1917
 

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Or do you mean, that this proof mark is missing on the frame? That would be pretty strange, because it was (and still is till nowadays) mandatory, that proof marks must be stamped on all three main parts of a pistol, i.e. on the frame, the slide and the barrel.
We can see two of the three proof marks – the one on the slide and the one on the frame. I suppose that it's even possible to find the proof mark on the barrel although these are usually quite weak.
That's funny, you don't see the proof mark on the barrel, I can't find it on the frame. But at least we booth see it on the slide and by that we have one common ground. 😄
Seriously:
The exact location of the proof mark on the barrel is to be seen on the silver chamber, visible through the cartridge ejection.
But where do you see the proof mark on the frame?
 

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Correction:
What you see thru chamber is the frame. Barrel seat is part of the frame. You'll find the proof mark near muzzle on the barrel.
 

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Early '70, but yes, that's it ;).
 

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Apropos the “Allemagne” marking, the following is an inconclusive discussion on this subject in a French forum. The posts are unfortunately not numbered but the most plausible explanation is put forward in the post of member “feder504”, dated 31st.July 2013:

“Ce PP en .22 est d'avant-guerre. Le mot "Allemagne" sous la désignation du modèle est caractéristique des armes vendues en France avant 1939/40, tout comme "Germany" (ou "Made in Germany") figurait, au même endroit, sur les armes destinées au marché anglo-saxon”.

(This is a pre-war PP.22. The word “Allemagne” in the model designation is characteristic of models sold in France before 1939/40, just as “Germany” (or “Made in Germany”), on the same location, features on weapons destined for the Anglo-Saxon market.)

In his following post (1st.August 2013), he explains how the factory (i.e. Zella-Mehlis) made a blooper on an Iranian consignment by attempting to adapt the date to the Solar Hijri calendar, this latter piece of information given to support his first point that the markings were sometimes market-specific.

https://www.tircollection.com/t16199-datation-d-un-pp-zehla-mellis-marquage-allemagne-en-francais#210362
 

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First off, this is not my gun, it belongs to the LGS my wife works at, and while it will eventually go on Gun Broker, this is not a value question. I am going to go photograph this gun sometime this weekend. I have read up on the history a little bit, but I can't hardly find any pictures of Allemagne guns. So, I'm going to photograph it for my Instagram. I know there are probably some areas specifically you should photograph. What are they? I will basically have unfettered access to do everything but shoot it, so what would you like to see inside? I will probably do a video for my YouTube channel, forgotten weapons style.

It's a 1936 PPK, Serial number in the 881XXX range, with no K. Crown N proof marks. Zella-Mehlis (Thür.) slide. 85-90% finish, maybe higher. One mag, no holster. I would be happy to answer any questions about it's physical condition. I have no idea about it's history. I believe the LGS acquired it from a police department.

Now, I just need some tips on what to photograph for posterity. If some would like, I can post the link to the auction when it goes up. If it's not allowed, I won't mention it again. Again, it's not mine, and I am not making any money from this. I just want to do my due diligence. If anybody has any information to add, I would love to hear about it. Thanks!!

Josh
Excuse me. This gun is in a public LGS and will be put on GB auction and you come asking for info but are squirrely and hide the whole serial number for collector data bases? Great. Thanks. So possibly coming from a local PD means it may have an evidence number scratched on the gun. Hope it ain’t so.

If you photograph the gun, do not use a white or bright background. You gun will be too dark in the image. Make it a neutral color like beige or green.
 
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