Walther Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello All!
I have been a Walther Fan for years, but I am new to the forum. I have been searching for some time trying to locate production numbers on the PPS with the OD Green frame, box is marked military. I bought two of these in 2010. One is a 9mm, the other is a .40 S&W. Each came stock with 2 magazines. I purchased an additional mag for each weapon so that I would have the equivalent of the 'home defense kit' for each. So: both guns although considered technically used, have never been fired. They each have the box, all original docs, not filled out of course, the lock sill sealed in the bag and the aforementioned 3 mags, one has the flat floor, one medium and one extra long for each weapon. I bought these as a collectors item. I have had three related searches running on Gunbroker.com for the past 6 months and to date have never seen a hit. The model numbers are WAP10103 (9mm) and WAP10104 (.40 S&W).
I am hoping someone can please tell me the value of these Guns! Oh; also I forgot to mention, both are German Made and did not come with Night Sights, the sights are fixed white dots, 2 rear one front. Slide; both back straps and mag plates are Black as is the Mag release (back half of trigger guard) and trigger. They both have the end of slide red dot when a round is chambered.
I would really appreciate any feedback the forum could offer.

I also have a PPS .40 S&W with night sights, that came in the 'Home Defense Kit' which is a Black standard S&W made gun that just came with 3 Mags with all three Mag length options. Just bringing this up. I am most interested in production quantity numbers and/or value of the two apparently rare OD Green Guns. Thank you all!!! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,146 Posts
There were no S&W made PPSs!
Right, BUT, S&W DID make the defense kit, or maybe that was Earl's outfit..?

Either case, I'd love to have an OD PPS. Especially a pair.

Are the serials very close together, OP?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
PPS OD Green Mystery



OK, so admittedly I don't know a lot about the manufacture of these PPS's. That's why I'm trying to understand what the total production numbers were on the OD Green 9 mm and .40 S&W. I see "S&W Springfield MA" on the RH slide and "Carl Walther Uln./DO. Made in Germany" on the LH frame. My understanding from a friend who collects the old WWII Nazi Walthers', is that: S&W bought the company so the pistols were Made in Germany under License from S&W. I believe I misstated the black PPS Mfg. from the Home Defense Kit. This was Model #WAP10009. I believe the model designation means included were factory night sights (Which incidentally; shot 2' low at 25' and the gun was sent under warranty to S&W for repair. They couldn't have been nicer about it. They sent me a postage label, fixed the gun and sent it back in just over a week.) This tells me they got the gun in from Germany, installed the night sights, and threw in an extra mag. Interestingly, from Buds Police Supply; I just bought a black PPS with night sights and this is what they sent me. Guess that was lucky for me. Within two months after that I bought the two PPS's on OD Green from the same store. Both Brand New; both un-fired to date; and just like off the shelf. The serial number on the 9 mm is AF1029. The serial on the .40 S&W is AF0761. Since there are 4 spaces for a numeral, I assume they made less that 9,999 of these of each caliber for the whole world. My friend believed that this was a trial run for the US military; Walther didn't get the contract, then they sold this short run on the open market, however, this is mostly speculation. Since they are different caliber, I assume there could be a SN AF0761 out there in 9 mm; but again this is speculation since I have no proof, and also have no further information on these rare PPS's to back anything up. I might consider selling one or both for a fair price. I'm trying to find out what that means. I know what I paid, but these this have disappeared into safes, because I have tried to find one for sale on all the sites for close to 6 months and so far, nothing. I would love to hear anything that anyone on this forum believes or knows to be true. I will leave a few pics below' remember they look exactly the same, the only diff is the caliber. They are like clones with a different Barrel. I'm just trying to solve this mystery and see what I actually have here. If anyone ever sees a grey or pink PPS, BUY IT. Those were available too at the same time around 2010. I have never seen a Grey IRL. THANKS TO ALL!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,969 Posts
Hahahaha. This keeps getting better and better.

Yep. Last week they bought SIG-Sauer and H&K too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,070 Posts
S&W serves as importer for Walther for a number of years, right up until a couple of years back when Walther opened its own shop in Fort Smith and took over the import duties. The two firms collaborated on one pistol, the SW99. S&W also had the license from Walther to make the PPK and the PPK/S. At no time did S&W own Walther. The relationship between the two companies is gradually coming to an end.

Can't help you on the questions you ask, other than say that the pistols are worth what someone would be willing to pay you. You might get more at auction than selling them conventionally, hoping that you a) run into a buyer who has to have one just like yours, or b) (and better yet), that you run into two buyers who absolutely have to have one. Good luck, in any event.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thank You matquig!

YES, I WILL SAY THINGS THAT CAN BE DISSECTED AND PROVED TO NOT BE 100% ACCURATE. HAVE I NOT MADE IT CLEAR THAT I AM NO EXPERT ON THE HISTORY OF THE COMPANY AND WHO MADE WHAT REGARDING PPS MANUFACTURE? Again; Forum: Could anyone of you guys who possess all this Walther knowledge please enlighten me on 1.) the number of WAP10103's and WAP10104's that were produced either for US or Worldwide sale? And 2.) in addition; I was hoping someone could help me discern the value of these apparently rare PPS's.
I do not now, or probably ever will know the history of this company at a level that will thwart any correction or criticism. The things I've been told that I shared that obviously are not 100% accurate are of no consequence for answering the question(s) at hand as matquig has so astutely pointed out. If no one has the answer, that's fine because I can't find any info either. If this is just about critiquing my knowledge of the Walther history; maybe someone should start a thread of their own about the history of the PPS. I'm not trying to be a D*ck; but I really thought the answer's to the two questions I had could maybe be found on this forum. I'm sorry I wasted everyone's time in correcting the technicalities of what I don't know about the company history. Can anyone help with either of the two questions? I would really appreciate it... Thank you for your indulgence and understanding I wish everyone here a Very Merry Christmas, because Political Correctness can 'Pack-It With a Snack'. God Bless all! :):):)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
I don't think those numbers you have stated mean anything other than that the pistols are od green and the designated calibers.

They don't have anything to do with rarity or scarcity as such unless someone really wants an OD green PPS. I've only seen a few listed for sale and they do seem to have a listed price a bit higher than the standard black. However, I have no idea whether or not the seller actually got what he/she was asking, simply they thought the "uniqueness" of the color scheme warranted a higher asking price.

In reality, I would not pay more for a pistol simply because the color was different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,146 Posts
I'd pay a little more for a different color PPS, but not considerably more.

The Blue/Gray ones tend to pull a little more, on the rare occasion you see one for sale. For me, it'd be more for a collectable sort of thing, since my PPS pair gets carried a good bit and are not what you'd call pristine...

Anyway, OP, I'd suspect that Walther in Germany might have the info you need, though I have no idea how to contact them. I'd suggest finding a translator though. ;)

As mentioned, up till 2012, Walther guns were imported by S&W, around the first part of '12, Walther opened up a place in Arkansas and started handling their own importation. The only thing that changed on the pistols beginning 2012 is that they now have lasered into the slide "Walther Arms Fort Smith AR" instead of the S&W markings...

S&W NEVER made the PPS, they ONLY made/make the PPK/S and a couple of derivatives.

Saying a PPS is German is about like saying a Mustang is American (car).

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
PPS OD Green Mystery (Cont.)

First; Thanks to all who responded. As I said, I'm a collector. I bought the OD Green in the first place because they were unique. I wish I had gone ahead with the Blue/Grey as well because it was there at the same price, like $449.00? (remember that's from the former 'Bud's Police Supply' in KY.). They seem even more rare now.
As for making more of any color; Walther could do that in a heartbeat. I have been a Maintenance Manager in manufacturing for 30+ years. Literally it's as simple as cleaning the Black residue out of the injection mold and changing plastic to any color of the rainbow. Interestingly, when this was first run, there would be some number of pieces that had what would be considered a flaw; Black intertwined swirls in the Green, (or whatever color it was changed too). These set-up pieces no doubt would be discarded. Could you imagine from a collectors prospective getting your hands on one of those? If it was possible, that would be amazing. I would bet some employee running the process, has one or two of these 'discarded castings'.
Well; I do agree that for a PPS concealed carrier who is an end user, and even for myself as a collector, I doubt I would pay more than a 20% premium for one of these colored PPS's (2014-15 dollars). Like anything else though, if they never duplicate this process, no doubt the value will go up and up with time. That's obvious. So, I am now on a quest to find the blue/grey in 9 mm and .40 S&W, (assuming they made both calibers in Blue/Grey) to complete my personal collection. Also; to follow up, I will contact Walther and try to get the PPS production numbers and try to get an answer for the serial number question re. "do the different calibers have a new series of serial numbers"? I have a German friend who is fluent, so If I get that info from Walther I will share it with the forum for those who love PPS's as much as I do. Like the previous poster; I carry my Black PPS form the Kit WAP10009 that has night sights and came in the aforementioned home defense kit. ***Please note, if you have one of these, and you have never fired it, you may want to check it with a bore laser since mine was off a country mile when I first got it. I'm pretty sure this happened here in the US, because the included 'Fired Cartridge' was dead on (from assembly in Germany).
I contacted Walther back in '09 and bought their PPS holster which as you can imagine, fits and works perfectly, and has the thumb brake. I usually buy Galco F.L.E.T.C.H; but for this baby, I got the Walther holster for continuity. It's a fuzz big for year round concealed carry, and that's why I'm getting a PPK/S or a PPK. I would be interested if anyone has a recommendation since this is a carry and use piece, if there is a preferred year or model. I have heard both good and bad about the PPK Smiths, but some of this is probably from hardcore Walther folks like me; that aren't generally thrilled that S&W is associated at all. On second thought, I'll check that thread. Don't want to get the PPS thread off topic anymore than I already have. That said, I will continue to answer off topic statements. Hope I don't offend anyone, that's not me.
No disrespect to the previous poster, but after working 15 years for Navistar (the old International Harvester or IH) I would be surprised to learn that anything more than 70% of a Mustang is actually made in the US. It is assembled here, but in this world of outsourcing to the lowest bidder and referencing the recent Takata air bag problem, because potentially everyone's' 05-07 Mustang GT as well as Ranger small pick-ups (98,000 est. effected) has one or two. Even Chrysler Corp had close to 800,000 est. effected vehicles. You get the point. In fact our lack of true 'Made in America' items and loss of Manufacturing jobs; including my own; in MHO has directly led to our current $18,000,000,000,000 deficit (yes that's 12 zero's after the 18!).
But hey, I'm sorry; we're Talking Walthers' not politics. There's plenty of other forums for that. I was making the point that NOTHING or practically nothing is really made in the US except maybe our Kids! Sorry again for getting off track.
I would love to buy a Blue/Grey PPS. Is anyone willing to part with one? Again, Thanks to all; and I will share whatever I can find from Walther regarding PPS colored production numbers for all 4 possibilities that I know of (Green & Blue/Grey 9 & 40, I was wrong about the Pink, that was a P99 not PPS I think). This may someday be good information to have.
I didn't start this post to sell my two green PPS's. I understand why someone would think so, but I think production numbers and values are info worth knowing.
This is unrelated too, but to make the point; last year I picked up a Sig P226 Backwater Tactical. These were sold for a very limited time, and I got the best deal possible and paid 50% over MSRP for 2009-10. It's all a matter of what a Guy (or Gal) wants I guess. For me it's primarily Walthers and Sigs'. To each his/her own...
In another example, before everyone went Gun Crazy I bought an FN FiveseveN in FDE two tone for around $550.00. The entire 3-1/2 years I owned it, there was no ammo available. So I sold it about a yer ago for $1,300, (or close). My point; oddities go crazy in this crazy market.
Also FYI; I heard on the news today the Sandy Hook Parents are suing Bushmaster about the .223 AR-15 in an alleged attempt to run it up to the Supreme Court stating "The negligence and wrongful death lawsuit, filed in Bridgeport Superior Court, asserts that the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle should not have been made publicly available because it was designed for military use and is unsuited for hunting or home defense". I say B.S. Leave the 2nd Amendment alone!!! This may help you decide if renewing your NRA Membership is a good idea...

Thanks again forum! I'm happy to be part of this group. :):confused::)

Address with the Bushmaster suit info: FOX 5 ? Families of Newtown shooting victims sue gunmaker, seller
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Question sent to Walther.de

So, I found a website and respectfully asked for these production numbers of the models of PPS's made in Green and Blue Grey. I asked for totals produced for each color and caliber. If they agree to release this information I will post the reply here. Actually I will post the reply either way; if I get one. Then it's a question of personal assignment of value from the pool of available weapons. If you are interested in this, please check back from time to time. I will update as /if info becomes available. I gave them my model and serial numbers to try and increase credibility. We'll see.

One final question for the forum: Does the AF proceeding the serial number stand for American Firearm; or maybe something else? I hope I can help clear this up. Also, since the OD green PPS's I have came from Bud's Police Supply.com, They were cheaper to buy up front, and both of the boxes have "Military" printed after the model numbers. Maybe this is why some of you guys never heard of the OD Green Two-Tone PPS.

FYI: Any Honorably Discharged Veteran and others like EMT's, Firefighters, Police and some others can buy from this company and get these deals. They did shut down the Police Supply website and they run the program through their regular store. See rules at the following link for rules on being certified so you can receive a "Qualified Person Discount". In my case, I simply sent a copy of my DD-214 and I was in. Literally they sell me Hornady Ammo, Silver box with "For Law Enforcement Use Only" printed on the box, plus they're boxes of 50; not 20 like Hornady is usually sold.

I hope this helps someone... I have saved a ton over the years. Plus they sell used Police Trade-In's too! Great deals to be had if you can make the cut.

Qualified Professional Discounts

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all! :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,589 Posts
One final question for the forum: Does the AF proceeding the serial number stand for American Firearm; or maybe something else?
I can tell you the answer to that..... it is: No
PPS serial production started with AAxxxx for the first edition PPS's in Germany then the letters go up with production #'s increasing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for that...

So, 1-9,999 = AA; 10,001-19,999 = AB; 20,001-29,999 = AC; 30,001-39,999 = AD; 40,001-49,999 = AE, and my AF's fall in the range of 50,001-59,999. I am assuming there is no AA; AB; AC; AD; AE; AF that is 0,000, but hey; maybe there is???
Is that how it works? Wow, That's a SH**TON of PPS's! I had no idea there were so many out there. Are they into the AG's yet? So my Green .40 S&W is PPS #50,0761 if I understand the numbering system. Thanks again for that info, and if I get colored units production number totals info back from Walther I will post it for all PPS's thread followers to see. I really appreciate all the folks who tried to help and took their time to help me solve this. Sorry if I got a bit windy; just trying to be thorough and learn...:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Mine is an AG and it was proofed in Aug 2012. As to value I think your spot on, maybe a 10-20% premium above retail. Do they have the updated slide stop? With time and especially if the PPS was to be discontinued that may increase a bit but probably not a lot. It's a poly duty pistol, people aren't collecting them for nostalgia at this point. So even if they are pretty rare, how much is someone going to be willing to pay just to have a green one? You do see some NIB first edition PPS, PPQ etc. going for a fair price. I'd think that'd be about the best you could expect. I'd probably pay $650-700 for one and I'd shoot it and carry it the same as my black one. This is only speculation and time will tell. But it might be a long wait.
At least you got to learn a little about the PPS and Walthers in general here while on the hunt for your answers. Good luck :)
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top