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If I missed this somewhere, mea culpa. How do the two compare in size, weight and shootability in 9mm? I have two P99c's - .40 and 9mm. Both are solid perfromers. I also have a PM9 that functions flawlessly. Do I need a PPS?
PPS compared to the P99c?
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That's also my problem, I have a PM9 that is 100%, I just can't justify buying a pps that is larger and slightly heavier. The only advantage to a pps would probably be improved accuracy over the pm9, DANG, I am talking myself into buying one now
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I am also interested if anyone has direct shooting results with the PPS vs the PM9.
.I am also interested if anyone has direct shooting results with the PPS vs the PM9.
PPS is a lot more pistol than PM9. The trigger is way better and the weapon is a step closer to a primary type pistol.
I had a poor experience with 99c's. Mine was a jam-a-matic but I don't think that's the norm.
The width of the PPS lends itself to very easy concealment. More so than the 99c but less so than the PM9.
In in the end "you pays your money and you takes your choice". In my case I can shoot far more quickly and accurately with the PPS. I'm not sure any auto can ever replace a Jframe but the PPS comes close.
Jim
I had a poor experience with 99c's. Mine was a jam-a-matic but I don't think that's the norm.
The width of the PPS lends itself to very easy concealment. More so than the 99c but less so than the PM9.
In in the end "you pays your money and you takes your choice". In my case I can shoot far more quickly and accurately with the PPS. I'm not sure any auto can ever replace a Jframe but the PPS comes close.
Jim
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910 Posts
The trigger in my PM9 is very nice. As a matter of fact it is what a lot of PM9 owners like best about the PM9 in addition of course to it's size/weight. I have no problem carrying it as a primary weapon as it has proven after a 1000+ fired rounds to be very reliable and accurate enough for personal defense. As for my P99s they have been the best out of the box guns I have ever owned, conceal extremely well, and because the P99 has been around a while, all the kinks have been ironed out. After my experience with the M&P, I will never again buy a gun in its first year of introduction regardless of model. Once burned, never return.
Am I trying to convince myself that I don't need the PPS? Not sure but from what I've read so far, it's hard to justify since I already have the PM9, a Glock 27, and a couple of compact P99's. Not sure if I can justify another subcompact.
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That sums up the real problem. I have PM9's too. Did I NEED a PPS ?of course I did .........
Jim
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of course I did .........
Jim
By the way Jim, that "urban rumor" about the PM9 frame lasting only 2500 rounds is BS yet it still gets quoted in the gun forums. My understanding is that it was a line from an gun rag that somehow made it through the editing process without being validated/corrected. 2500 rounds for the recoil spring NOT the frame.
If you have a working PM9 that up till now has proven reliable, I would be hard pressed to be able to justify/rationalize the need for a PPS unless you just enjoy building up your inventory, trying new guns, and you are fortunate enough to have the discretionary income to do so. Nothing wrong with that.
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At the moment, at least, the PPS seems to be an acquired taste, akin to Guinness. If you try it a few times and eventually return to your normal watery lager, that's fine; you gave it a try, after all. But if you sample it often enough and come to enjoy it, Guinness quickly becomes the best drink you've ever tasted. What's fascinating about the PPS FE to date is that so many folks have weighed in without the sampling ... without giving it much more than a cursory once-over -- in a gunshop if they were fortunate, but more likely after a quick look at a photo and the specs sheet on a website.
The FE model has at least generated a great deal of discussion among gun enthusiasts, with plenty of people chiming in on the perceived positives and the negatives of the model. (In some circles, oddly enough, there has been as much attention paid to the coloring of the polymer frame as there has been to the gun's functionality.) So it's far more likely that the first real test of the acceptance levels of the PPS won't come until the black models are in wide distribution and interested parties can hold it, waggle it, strip it, study it, shoot it a bit -- in other words, try to acquire a taste for it. Then we will see whether our friends at Walther have created a must-have model or a boon-doggle.
Interestingly enough, the debate probably won't rise and fall on which model -- the PPS or the venerable p99c -- is easier to carry or easiest to conceal. All things being equal, and holster manufacturers being the clever folks they are, a solution can be found for just about any problem. Put another way: Given enough money and a good fitting from a professional, virtually any handgun made today can be successfully carried in a concealed manner. Lots of folks carry full-sized P99s or Colt 1911s or even the big S&W revolvers. So it's far more likely that the PPS will rise and fall on its merits as a functional and reliable self-defense weapon that features a caliber sufficient enough to please those who don't believe in the stopping power of a .32 or .380. The gun will either outperform the competition and succeed, or it will become just another run-of-the-mill offering and fail to survive.
You would like to think that Walther's track record for producing weapons of superior quality and design and proven performance would give it an edge in this global marketplace, but that's likely not the case here, either. For every PPK and P38 success story, the company has produced a surprising number of consumer-rejected firearms. The PP Super, a surperb example of German crafstmanship, failed. The highly touted P88 -- still considered by many to be the finest 9mm handgun ever produced -- never caught on. So you have to ask yourself, "What does the PPS bring to the table that sets it apart from everything else out there?"
Will people abandon their PM9 or their Seecamp or their j-frame S&W revolver to carry the PPS on a daily basis? Will they even abandon their PPK? Who can say for sure? One thing is certain: You can't tell much of anything by judging the gun from a photo on a webpage or reading an online review from "critics" who gush about every product they test. The only way you'll be able to tell for sure if the PPS is the right gun for you -- the replacement to your P99c or your PPK/S or your PM9 -- is to get one and study it and shoot some rounds through it.
Sadly, there aren't enough FE models out there to make this practical at the moment. Be patient. Give it some time. The black model will show up soon enough, and the opportunity to test the PPS -- to acquire a taste for it -- will present itself. Then we'll see whether this new Walther will become a classic ... or just another splot on the windshield.
The FE model has at least generated a great deal of discussion among gun enthusiasts, with plenty of people chiming in on the perceived positives and the negatives of the model. (In some circles, oddly enough, there has been as much attention paid to the coloring of the polymer frame as there has been to the gun's functionality.) So it's far more likely that the first real test of the acceptance levels of the PPS won't come until the black models are in wide distribution and interested parties can hold it, waggle it, strip it, study it, shoot it a bit -- in other words, try to acquire a taste for it. Then we will see whether our friends at Walther have created a must-have model or a boon-doggle.
Interestingly enough, the debate probably won't rise and fall on which model -- the PPS or the venerable p99c -- is easier to carry or easiest to conceal. All things being equal, and holster manufacturers being the clever folks they are, a solution can be found for just about any problem. Put another way: Given enough money and a good fitting from a professional, virtually any handgun made today can be successfully carried in a concealed manner. Lots of folks carry full-sized P99s or Colt 1911s or even the big S&W revolvers. So it's far more likely that the PPS will rise and fall on its merits as a functional and reliable self-defense weapon that features a caliber sufficient enough to please those who don't believe in the stopping power of a .32 or .380. The gun will either outperform the competition and succeed, or it will become just another run-of-the-mill offering and fail to survive.
You would like to think that Walther's track record for producing weapons of superior quality and design and proven performance would give it an edge in this global marketplace, but that's likely not the case here, either. For every PPK and P38 success story, the company has produced a surprising number of consumer-rejected firearms. The PP Super, a surperb example of German crafstmanship, failed. The highly touted P88 -- still considered by many to be the finest 9mm handgun ever produced -- never caught on. So you have to ask yourself, "What does the PPS bring to the table that sets it apart from everything else out there?"
Will people abandon their PM9 or their Seecamp or their j-frame S&W revolver to carry the PPS on a daily basis? Will they even abandon their PPK? Who can say for sure? One thing is certain: You can't tell much of anything by judging the gun from a photo on a webpage or reading an online review from "critics" who gush about every product they test. The only way you'll be able to tell for sure if the PPS is the right gun for you -- the replacement to your P99c or your PPK/S or your PM9 -- is to get one and study it and shoot some rounds through it.
Sadly, there aren't enough FE models out there to make this practical at the moment. Be patient. Give it some time. The black model will show up soon enough, and the opportunity to test the PPS -- to acquire a taste for it -- will present itself. Then we'll see whether this new Walther will become a classic ... or just another splot on the windshield.
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'Excellent, well-written and thought-out post. Thank you.At the moment, at least, the PPS seems to be an acquired taste, akin to Guinness. If you try it a few times and eventually return to your normal watery lager, that's fine; you gave it a try, after all. But if you sample it often enough and come to enjoy it, Guinness quickly becomes the best drink you've ever tasted. What's fascinating about the PPS FE to date is that so many folks have weighed in without the sampling ... without giving it much more than a cursory once-over -- in a gunshop if they were fortunate, but more likely after a quick look at a photo and the specs sheet on a website.
The FE model has at least generated a great deal of discussion among gun enthusiasts, with plenty of people chiming in on the perceived positives and the negatives of the model. (In some circles, oddly enough, there has been as much attention paid to the coloring of the polymer frame as there has been to the gun's functionality.) So it's far more likely that the first real test of the acceptance levels of the PPS won't come until the black models are in wide distribution and interested parties can hold it, waggle it, strip it, study it, shoot it a bit -- in other words, try to acquire a taste for it. Then we will see whether our friends at Walther have created a must-have model or a boon-doggle.
Interestingly enough, the debate probably won't rise and fall on which model -- the PPS or the venerable p99c -- is easier to carry or easiest to conceal. All things being equal, and holster manufacturers being the clever folks they are, a solution can be found for just about any problem. Put another way: Given enough money and a good fitting from a professional, virtually any handgun made today can be successfully carried in a concealed manner. Lots of folks carry full-sized P99s or Colt 1911s or even the big S&W revolvers. So it's far more likely that the PPS will rise and fall on its merits as a functional and reliable self-defense weapon that features a caliber sufficient enough to please those who don't believe in the stopping power of a .32 or .380. The gun will either outperform the competition and succeed, or it will become just another run-of-the-mill offering and fail to survive.
You would like to think that Walther's track record for producing weapons of superior quality and design and proven performance would give it an edge in this global marketplace, but that's likely not the case here, either. For every PPK and P38 success story, the company has produced a surprising number of consumer-rejected firearms. The PP Super, a surperb example of German crafstmanship, failed. The highly touted P88 -- still considered by many to be the finest 9mm handgun ever produced -- never caught on. So you have to ask yourself, "What does the PPS bring to the table that sets it apart from everything else out there?"
Will people abandon their PM9 or their Seecamp or their j-frame S&W revolver to carry the PPS on a daily basis? Will they even abandon their PPK? Who can say for sure? One thing is certain: You can't tell much of anything by judging the gun from a photo on a webpage or reading an online review from "critics" who gush about every product they test. The only way you'll be able to tell for sure if the PPS is the right gun for you -- the replacement to your P99c or your PPK/S or your PM9 -- is to get one and study it and shoot some rounds through it.
Sadly, there aren't enough FE models out there to make this practical at the moment. Be patient. Give it some time. The black model will show up soon enough, and the opportunity to test the PPS -- to acquire a taste for it -- will present itself. Then we'll see whether this new Walther will become a classic ... or just another splot on the windshield.
Yes I am aware of that. If you read a bit further down in the PM9 thread I corrected my email after another call to Kahr. I was told that 8000 was more the useful life. The service tech I spoke with originally told me 2500 with 127+P+ Winchester which as you know batters and accelerates wear.
Jim
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Roger that. I tend to be a speed reader when it comes to reading posts.
Yet dollars to donuts, you'll see the 2500 round reference (for the frame) again in another forum soon enough. You gotta love the internet. 8K rounds I can live with.searcher451 Will people abandon their PM9 or their Seecamp or their j-frame S&W revolver to carry the PPS on a daily basis? [/QUOTE said:JMOFO:
I "might" abandon my P99c/AS for cc on a daily basis IF I find the PPS has more to offer over the P99c/AS beyond slimness..
I "won't" abandon my Seecamp LWS32 for daily carry either way because the LWS32 is small and light enough to be carried in a rear wallet holster IN ADDITION to whatever larger, higher caliber firearm I am cc at any particular time.
I doubt many folks carry a LWS32 or LWS380 in lieu of a P99c/AS or PPS.
Most folks carry the largest calibered, highest capacity, best quality firearm they CAN carry concealed depending on the circumstances at the time. The Seecamps can go anyplace a larger firearm can go, and most places they can't.
So, when I can I carry my P99c/AS in a FIST Kydex IWB holster, and my LWS32 also. When I cannot carry P99c/AS still I carry my LWS32.
Just personal opinion, not trying to offend.
Best Wishes,
J.Pomeroy
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