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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My father shoots a Walther PPQ Q5 Match 9mm in competitions with myself. I've modified my firearm to handle light loads, but i can't find any information on how to do the same with his. As it is now, we have to reload ammo at the maximum limit just to get it to cycle (i load at .16grams, his are .21grams). Shooting his the other day it has a hell of a kick still. The recoil spring is the small, hard, all in one spring that hardly compresses.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for modifying his firearm so he can shoot lighter loads and cycle better?
 

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The recoil spring is the small, hard, all in one spring that hardly compresses.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for modifying his firearm so he can shoot lighter loads and cycle better?
That description leaves me wondering what you're describing....but maybe that's the problem.

I'm wondering what gun YOU are shooting......is it a PPQ Q5 Match too, or something else?

Does his recoil spring look like the one below?

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That description leaves me wondering what you're describing....but maybe that's the problem.

I'm wondering what gun YOU are shooting......is it a PPQ Q5 Match too, or something else?

Does his recoil spring look like the one below?

View attachment 102413
Yup that's his setup. I shoot a CZ Shadow 2, totally different to his. Was easy to modify mine, harder his.
 

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Can't really compare recoil of a poly striker fired gun to a metal hammer fired gun. Apples and oranges.

However, we do have quite a few competition shooters on the forum, maybe one of them will stop by and offer some help concerning loads and such.
 

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I use the Q5 in USPSA CO. I'm still running the factory recoil spring at the moment. I started using normal, off the shelf FMJ ammo but eventually worked my way down to a lower power load in the Federal TSJ USPSA 150gr 9mm stuff. (Can't reload because I don't have the equipment and don't see the point in investing in reloading when primers are impossible to find ATM). The Federal TSJ 150gr stuff is very soft to shoot and still makes minimum power factor just fine. Anything softer and you may not make minimum PF as there isn't much room to play with softer loads, though if you want to be right on the edge, I suppose you could try. Point being, they are soft loads and they cycle the gun just fine even with the extra ounce or two of the optic itself riding the slide. You should not have to reload with hot powder loads just to get the gun to cycle.

Are you absolutely sure you have the factory recoil spring in it? It should handle loads down near minimum PF just fine. Though if you really want to "tune it", you could get the Sprinco recoil spring kit and try the different springs (I think the yellow one is for softer ammo).

Still there are two things you can do to manage the recoil... By far the best thing to do to manage recoil is practice. Lots and lots of practice. The more you practice, the more you get used to controlling it. The second thing would be to add weight down low on the frame. Things like a brass backstrap, or extended magazines with brass baseplates. Also the Tungsten recoil spring. Though with the tungsten spring, you're adding weight but don't have the option of using the Sprinco kit to tune it for you custom reloads, so you'd have to decide what compromise is best there. Also keep in mind that added weight (brass specifically) is not allowed in IDPA competitions, so if that's the competition you're shooting, you'll have to stick to lighter weight aluminum grip inserts or baseplates (though it's unlikely anyone would check or even care at a level 1/local match).
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I use the Q5 in USPSA CO. I'm still running the factory recoil spring at the moment. I started using normal, off the shelf FMJ ammo but eventually worked my way down to a lower power load in the Federal TSJ USPSA 150gr 9mm stuff. (Can't reload because I don't have the equipment and don't see the point in investing in reloading when primers are impossible to find ATM). The Federal TSJ 150gr stuff is very soft to shoot and still makes minimum power factor just fine. Anything softer and you may not make minimum PF as there isn't much room to play with softer loads, though if you want to be right on the edge, I suppose you could try. Point being, they are soft loads and they cycle the gun just fine even with the extra ounce or two of the optic itself riding the slide. You should not have to reload with hot powder loads just to get the gun to cycle.

Are you absolutely sure you have the factory recoil spring in it? It should handle loads down near minimum PF just fine. Though if you really want to "tune it", you could get the Sprinco recoil spring kit and try the different springs (I think the yellow one is for softer ammo).

Still there are two things you can do to manage the recoil... By far the best thing to do to manage recoil is practice. Lots and lots of practice. The more you practice, the more you get used to controlling it. The second thing would be to add weight down low on the frame. Things like a brass backstrap, or extended magazines with brass baseplates. Also the Tungsten recoil spring. Though with the tungsten spring, you're adding weight but don't have the option of using the Sprinco kit to tune it for you custom reloads, so you'd have to decide what compromise is best there. Also keep in mind that added weight (brass specifically) is not allowed in IDPA competitions, so if that's the competition you're shooting, you'll have to stick to lighter weight aluminum grip inserts or baseplates (though it's unlikely anyone would check or even care at a level 1/local match).
I could try with Federal primers, i bought some to help with my revolver loads. The problem we're having is when i do load light it fails to cycle every time, and with full loads or max reloads the kick is monsterous. We're from Australia so it makes it even harder to source parts/upgrades but will try to find someone who has the spring kit too.
 

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I could try with Federal primers, i bought some to help with my revolver loads. The problem we're having is when i do load light it fails to cycle every time, and with full loads or max reloads the kick is monsterous. We're from Australia so it makes it even harder to source parts/upgrades but will try to find someone who has the spring kit too.
I wouldn't think that the primer brand would matter. As long as they go "pop" and make the powder go "boom" then that's all you would need them to do. Like you said, it should be the powder load that makes the biggest difference, but the Q5 should easily be able to handle lighter powder loads. Heck, that's why the cutouts are in the slide - to lighten the weight so that it cycles correctly with lighter loads.

What exactly happens when you fire a lighter load? Does it stovepipe/FTE, does it eject the round but FTF the next round? Also, I'm sure you have thoroughly cleaned it all and made sure everything is properly oiled. What about when you manually cycle the slide? Does it move smoothly, or do you feel it binding at any point?


Based on what you've said so far, it may be the spring that is too stiff and causing the issue. I wonder if simply replacing the spring with another factory spring would fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I wouldn't think that the primer brand would matter. As long as they go "pop" and make the powder go "boom" then that's all you would need them to do. Like you said, it should be the powder load that makes the biggest difference, but the Q5 should easily be able to handle lighter powder loads. Heck, that's why the cutouts are in the slide - to lighten the weight so that it cycles correctly with lighter loads.

What exactly happens when you fire a lighter load? Does it stovepipe/FTE, does it eject the round but FTF the next round? Also, I'm sure you have thoroughly cleaned it all and made sure everything is properly oiled. What about when you manually cycle the slide? Does it move smoothly, or do you feel it binding at any point?


Based on what you've said so far, it may be the spring that is too stiff and causing the issue. I wonder if simply replacing the spring with another factory spring would fix it.
I can get a video when we go down on Sunday, but from memory when we try and shoot my light loads in his it fires properly but fails to eject/cycle. So you need to shoot, rack it manually, then shoot again. Everything is smooth, yeah i've stripped it , cleaned it and oiled it, the slide moves nicely with no catching.

This being factory with no changes, would adding another factory spring help? Someone did mention the poly striker fired type his is, i've only dealt with the metal hammer type so i'm not sure on what springs i would be looking at apart from the recoil one.

Cheers
 

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I'd assume the PPQ cycles fine with factory ammo. I'm gonna upload a picture of one of my PPQ M2 5" 40's. This gun shoots full power loads and feels like I'm shootin' a 9mm. The recoil is ..... welll..... its surprisingly good. But, so are my 9's.

When you put your powder puff loads in your Dad's Q5, they simply don't generate enough energy to fully cycle the slide. You simply have to run a lighter recoil spring to match the low power loads. Do that, and that gun will function properly.

This gun was sittin' in a holster attached to the end table about 6" to the right of the Cockapoo.....its brudder is hangin' on the nightstand. 😁
The Yorkie is on the other arm rest and the German Shepherd is currently on fence duty in the back yard. 😂
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My recommendation: Install a lighter recoil spring. I've have great success with a steel guiderod and a 13 lb. spring from Wilson Combat.

Steel Guide Rod. Walther PPQ-M2/PDP Stainless Steel Guide Rod • Stainless Steel Guide Rods if you order this guide rod, you'll need to tell them to NOT use any loc-tite on the screw, because you'll need to remove the screw to change the spring.

Wilson Combat. 13 pound spring https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-W...Size-Chrome-Silicon-13-Lb/productinfo/614G13/

15 pound spring https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-W...Size-Chrome-Silicon-15-Lb/productinfo/614G15/

Get these parts, assemble the 13 pound spring on the rod and put that puppy in that Q5. See how those powder puff loads work with this setup.

But, don't compare the recoil of the polymer PPQ to your steel framed CZ. The Q will NEVER shoot like your shadow.
 

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The Shadow 2 weighs roughly 46-47 ounces.
The Polymer Q5 Match roughly 28 ounces.

To echo what imaoldfart said, they are not going to shoot/feel the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
To echo what imaoldfart said, they are not going to shoot/feel the same.
Fair enough. Even still, we need to reduce the recoil of his down considerably. I've emailed a local importer as im in Australia to try and get a new recoil rod/spring, hopefully that will help. Just need it to cycle low powder loads as now it only cycles factory ammo or reloads that are filled to the Max recommendation.
 

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Weasle, does that mean that you can't order any gun parts yourself? I mean, you can't jump on the internet click on a 'spring' and have it dropped off on your front porch? What if Santa Claus sent you a present????

I'm just wondering, because I'm pretty sure a new 'factory' recoil spring assembly isn't going to make any difference.

In most case you work up a load and then mess around with the springs to 'fine tune' the pistol.

But, I think in your case you might want to get an 11, 12 and 13 pound spring and a stainless guide rod, assemble the 11 pound spring on the rod, put it in the pistol and see if the slide will even return all the way to battery. My hunch is you'll also need to put in a reduced power striker spring to work with the 11 pound recoil spring. Once you get that all figured out. THEN you can develop some powder puff loads that'll have just enough power to get the slide to cycle.

You can use Glock striker springs to pair up with your reduced power recoil spring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Weasle, does that mean that you can't order any gun parts yourself?
Alot of the time yes, it sucks. We have limited availability and access to stuff, i was lucky with my modifications as i found an importer that brought stuff over from the US. The other problem is ordering from the US we get killed with postage, i bought some magazines for my .22 from the US a while back when the exchange rate was better but now it's terrible for us.

I'm in talks with an importer at the moment, looking at changing the spring and maybe altering our loads from 135grn to 124grn projectiles. Hopefully get some reduction.
 

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FYI, DPM is based in Greece. This might be an option......

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In addition to all that has been discussed, I'm curious what power factor your ammo is (both hand loads and factory). Going back to what I noted in an earlier comment, I use the Federal TSJ 150 gr USPSA stuff that comes in around a power factor of 133.5 based on the box specs. The minimum power factor for USPSA/IPSC is 125, so 133 is pretty close with enough leeway to make sure the occasional soft round still meets minimum PF. The stuff I was shooting before was a PF of 142.6 which feels noticeably hotter. There's more to it than just PF, but at least it gives a reasonably similar comparison for the forces and power that the rounds produce when they go bang.

You've said that the Q5 only cycles correctly with factory ammo. What is the power factor of that ammo? (To get PF, simply multiply the listed FPS by the bullet weight and divide by 1000. i.e. 1150 FPS x 124 grain /1000 = 142.6PF).
If you have chrono graphed your hand loads to get a good average FPS spec, then what is the power factor for those? I'm curious if the hand loads are well below that normal range (i.e. 125 or below) and thus would require an aftermarket spring kit to allow for those super low power loads. The factory springs should easily handle power factors down around 130 (and likely a little below). As I noted before, I'm running factory recoil and striker springs and haven't had any cycling issues with that competition ammo at ~133PF.

From what I've heard, those softer competition spring kits start becoming necessary for people that really want to push that edge down as close to the minimum 125 as they can get away with. If your hand loads are way down in the "powder puff" range, then I agree with OldFart in that an aftermarket spring kit will likely be necessary. But without actual power numbers to go on, we're all guessing as to why your gun won't cycle with low power ammo but the recoil feels too harsh once you get ammo that does cycle it fully.
 
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